Seems there are many here who don't believe that Jesus was the perfect sacrifice for sin, or there wouldn't be reason for such threads as this one.
Are babies born without sin
- Thread starter Rob G
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No, he isn't hiding anything. We are hiding from the fact that you think God is swayed by all your exclamation points in your post. God doesn't have to let anyone into His heaven, it's His. He can even decide to not allow those washed in Christ's blood. He won't decide that, but He could AND He would still be Just and Perfect if He decided so.
But let's take your argument to its logical conclusion. If every baby who dies is guaranteed to pass go and collect eternal life then why don't we as Christians line up in lock step with the abortionists? Surely they are doing God's work by ensuing every child is not left behind but goes on to eternal bliss? Seriously, what is the difference between your mistaken doctrine and support for abortion?
But let's take your argument to its logical conclusion. If every baby who dies is guaranteed to pass go and collect eternal life then why don't we as Christians line up in lock step with the abortionists? Surely they are doing God's work by ensuing every child is not left behind but goes on to eternal bliss? Seriously, what is the difference between your mistaken doctrine and support for abortion?
If babies and children are without sin there would have been no reason for God to torch all of the infants and children of Sodom and Gomorrah.KingJ said:
Psalms 111
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
True. But that would make God a liar. Scripture says He is not. We can and must relax. Scripture is truth to the highest degree proven by His death for us. So lets rather take it as truth and not put words in God's mouth that imply He has a lot in common with the devil on partiality.BiggAndyy said:
We need only put on our 'God is impartial to the maximum' caps and use Rev 20:3 to grasp why we must not kill babies.
God is impartial = If God put the devil with Adam, He will put the devil with every human. Unless babies remain as babies in heaven, their day with the devil is coming. Or God is prepared to have a human fall-out when the babies grow up like He did with the angels.
Rev 20:3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. Now we need only use a little lateral thought. Those living in the millennium are in a type of heaven with Jesus and us reigning. Yet the devil is released into it........
How can a baby fear God? God wants us to fear Him because He send babies to hell? Are you mad?zhavoney said:
What you need to do, before assuming the absolute worst about God, is take scriptures definitions of God and then ask the question.
So...how does a LOVING, RIGHTEOUS, GOOD, HOLY, LONGSUFFERING, PATIENT, CARING, EXCEEDINGLY MERCIFUL, JUST God justify killing babies? Since Jesus says in Matt 19:14 that heaven BELONGS to them, God is blameless. There is simply nothing to discuss except that it is God's will and timing.
Discussion on 'fearing God' is for another thread.
Babies in the natural fleshly world are born into sin. They are born into the sin of their fathers. They are conceived in sin. (The lust of the flesh.). They can only fear God if they are taught to fear God by their parents. But until they are able to choose righteousness and reject sin they are expendable like any other bodies of flesh. You are talking about God who created everyone for His purpose. Either a creation for Honor or a creation for dishonor.KingJ said:
Would you have asked Christ if he is mad in your misunderstanding? Yes in fact you would have because you didn't know Him either.
1 Corinthians 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Galatians 6
8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Romans 9
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Matthew 10
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Isaiah 45
7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.'
Deuteronomy 32
39 'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.
Proverbs 9
10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
You are one ambiguous poster.
I think you expect people to know what's on your mind. I guess ambiguity is one of your traits.
Not true. The bed is undefiled in marriage.
Not true again. Many children whose parents aren't Christian have children who fear God because of other influencial people in their lives.
What in the world does that mean???
Another very ambiguous statement. And what do you mean..."you didn't know him either?
I think you expect people to know what's on your mind. I guess ambiguity is one of your traits.
I expect those who speak in the name of Christ and God to know what is on His mind. How do you know I didn't know Him? The marriage bed is only undefiled if you know what that means. If you bring other souls or the ways of the devil to the marriage bed is it still undefiled? Are the common worldly families who raise their children Godless undefiled also? Are you speaking from your imagination or did God tell you that there are many children who fear God? anywhere?kaotic profit said:
You know I don't usually put people on ignore and I'm not going to put you on it either.zhavoney said:
I didn't say you don't know Christ. The marriage bed is undefiled and you go to the extreme and adulterize it and say...
That's not the class of people you were talking about! You were talking about Christian parents...because you said,
I doubt that non-Christian parents would teach their children to fear God.
You also said,
My children fear God and my grandchildren do also.
With that being said I can tell you are what I call an undesirable.
I don't want anything to do with you!
I am undesirable because the truth is undesirable to a world that will perish.kaotic profit said:
I wish that My Children and grandchildren feared God with Holy fear as it should be. Though If you ask them they will tell you that they fear God. But not enough to to seek His face and get ready for what is coming. Not enough to stop serving the world and start building faith in the Lord alone. It is not easy to speak the truth but God will not be fooled nor will belief in lies stop what is coming.
isaiah 53
2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
You are undesirable because you play games of ambiguity and you say things that are clearly in error. Then you try to cover your blunders by distorting what I say like in the case of the undefiled bed, and by twisting things around like in the case of the undefiled bed and God fearing children! Your a typical Christian who can't admit you make mistakes and I'm not going to waste my with you. What is it about these new members like you, Purity, and musterion who turn a good debate into a waste of time?
I get it. You don't want to be forced into acknowledging the truth. i get it. I judge no one because everyone is already Judged and the only way out of Judgement is repentance and Not to me either.
I have no problems acknowledging the truth. But you obviously do. You've been caught in a few major blunders that you still remain in denial.zhavoney said:
My problem with you is that you don't have the truth, and then you rationalize it by twisting things around in the debate.
You pat yourself on the back quite often claiming you have the truth especially after you've been debunked.
Don't pat yourself on the back too hard you're liable to knock that chip off your shoulder!
I've always said that the biggest impediment to people attaining the truth is when they think they already have it.
if any of that were true. I would answer you. But you have the truth that you have made up for yourself and that is paramount. I will leave you to your vanity now.kaotic profit said:
I know how difficult it is for you cope with being debunked on a public forum. But be of good cheer. You'll have other chances to prove yourself! Better luck next time!zhavoney said:
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
1 jn 3:4 "....for sin is the transgression of the law."Rob G said:
New borns are not capable of transgressing God's law so it is not possible for a baby to be born a sinner.
mjrhealth said:
Than God would be un just God if any baby died because the wages of sin is death..
Yet we know God is not unjust and the cemetery's have the littlest of baby's in them.
the only sinless baby ever born was Jesus!!!
He alone IS to be praised over all HE THE only SINLESS lamb and he needed to die for babies to...
You need to stop relying on your feelings and your self start relying on what God says....
You have a real sweet and tender heart.. and sweet and tender hearts like yours are desirable to have ..yet sweet and tender hearts don't save........ Jesus does..
Psalm 51:5
New International Version (NIV)
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
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“Feelings come and feelings go,
And feelings are deceiving;
My warrant is the Word of God--
Naught else is worth believing.
Though all my heart should feel condemned
For want of some sweet token,
There is One greater than my heart
Whose Word cannot be broken.
I'll trust in God's unchanging Word
Till soul and body sever,
For, though all things shall pass away,
HIS WORD SHALL STAND FOREVER!”
― Martin Luther
God does not impute sin upon those who have not committed sin. Babies are born sinless, yet they have the sinful nature that we are born with. It is utterly impossible to be born with sin.Rob G said:
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Not one soul on this planet would have to bear the iniquity of Adam, except for Adam. Yet we know Christ came and died for Adam's sins, as well as ours, and the whole world's. Sin is not transferred to any human who did not commit sin, except to Him who was made sin for us when He became human.
I think you will find this interesting after you think about it every infant inherits sin from Adam ... FROM ADAM FATHERS PASS IT ON TO DAUGHTERS AND SON'S.. Fathers are the sin bearers that pass sin along.. women get inherited sin from their dads not their mothers since original /inherited sin is only passed along by Fathers-----Jesus was conceived by the holy Ghost His Father was God and that is why he never inherited original sin..Mom's receive it from their fathers but it is not passed along through them.. That's why Jesus could be born of Mary and yet be guiltless of original sin....Raeneske said:
I know your not Lutheran yet I thought you might find this interesting any way.
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From the book of Romans
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
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