Please show me in the Bible why it is necessary go believe not just that Jesus was resurrected, but that he was raised physically?
Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
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No where in scripture is the word begotten applied to someone who has no beginning.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Most people would worship their creditors when faced with consequences like these:
“But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.” (Matthew 18:25)
You just responded to this:
Robert Gwin said: ↑
You said they say they are Christians, and read the Bible, thank you sir, a classic example of how one forgets previous posts, and how you are basically responding to the immediately previous post.
And I just responded to this:
The bad thing about it is, that if Jesus is God we have no hope as he is a liar, he would have lied at Mk 10:40 and 13:32 straight up. Of course not only is that a serious sin, but trust is out the door. All the apostles who bore personal testimony about him were willing to sacrifice their lives for it. I don't think they would have done so if they were not fully convinced who he was. I know I wouldn't. But I can see how they might think it beneficial to the survival of humanity.
He had to make himself a corresponding ransom to satisfy God's equal law Brake.
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The same with John 12:49. Not much of a God who was sent, submits to the will of another person, only says what he’s told and even HOW to say it. As you point out, if Jesus were the all powerful Creator, it is odd that he cannot even chose who sits next to him. And he admits he is less than and knows less than another.
Acts 17:31 explicitly says God - not the Father - but God - in his wholeness, in his unitarian nature raised Jesus from the dead.
IMO, only someone totally indoctrinated could be exposed to such explicit text and conclude Jesus is God.
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You posted the Bible states there is one faith Eph 4:5. I assumed you believe what you posted sir, so I asked if you believe the Bible identifies that faith, that one road to life Mat 7:14, or do you think God leaves us to go our own way Walt?
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
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Continued From No.131
• John 1:1a . . In the beginning was the Word
The Greek translated "word" in that verse is logos (log'-os) which is
somewhat ambiguous. One of its meanings pertains to vocal expression; for
example:
• Gen 1:3 . . God said: Let there be light
So the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --came into
existence by means of God's voice, viz: by means of His speech.
• 2Pet 3:5 . . By the word of God the heavens existed long ago, and the
earth was formed out of water and by water
• John 1:1b . . and the Word was God.
Now, the thing is: we pretty much have to spell the God in that verse with
upper case so that there's absolutely no mistaking whose speech we're
talking about. If someone wants to say that God's speech is a deity; okay,
but we cannot allow for God's own vocal expressions to be any less divine
than Himself.
NOTE: The Watchtower Society claims the Word is a celestial being named
Michael; which implies that whenever Jehovah speaks, an angel comes flying
out of His mouth.
According to John 1:14, God's spoken words took on the nature of human
life. How it's possible for God's spoken words to be anything other than His
vocalizations, I haven't a clue; but if God's spoken words can become
human, then there are no doubt many other things they could become
should God want them to: for example clouds, flames, winds, or even bolts
of lightning.
I haven't a clue how it is that God's spoken words constitute a divine being;
nevertheless, John 1:1-3 says the Word is exactly that. But we are not
talking about two divine beings in that passage; only one; and that's
because (to my knowledge) God has only one voice with which to speak His
words.
The Watch Tower Society alleges that the Logos (a.k.a. the Word) is a
celestial being named Michael the arch angel. Well; I seriously doubt that an
angel comes flying out of God's mouth whenever He says something. Also,
were God's voice to be an angel, that would mean that all the while that
Michael wasn't existing as an angel when he was in human form, God was
speechless.
_
Continued From No.131
• John 1:1a . . In the beginning was the Word
The Greek translated "word" in that verse is logos (log'-os) which is
somewhat ambiguous. One of its meanings pertains to vocal expression; for
example:
• Gen 1:3 . . God said: Let there be light
So the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --came into
existence by means of God's voice, viz: by means of His speech.
• 2Pet 3:5 . . By the word of God the heavens existed long ago, and the
earth was formed out of water and by water
• John 1:1b . . and the Word was God.
Now, the thing is: we pretty much have to spell the God in that verse with
upper case so that there's absolutely no mistaking whose speech we're
talking about. If someone wants to say that God's speech is a deity; okay,
but we cannot allow for God's own vocal expressions to be any less divine
than Himself.
NOTE: The Watchtower Society claims the Word is a celestial being named
Michael; which implies that whenever Jehovah speaks, an angel comes flying
out of His mouth.
According to John 1:14, God's spoken words took on the nature of human
life. How it's possible for God's spoken words to be anything other than His
vocalizations, I haven't a clue; but if God's spoken words can become
human, then there are no doubt many other things they could become
should God want them to: for example clouds, flames, winds, or even bolts
of lightning.
I haven't a clue how it is that God's spoken words constitute a divine being;
nevertheless, John 1:1-3 says the Word is exactly that. But we are not
talking about two divine beings in that passage; only one; and that's
because (to my knowledge) God has only one voice with which to speak His
words.
The Watch Tower Society alleges that the Logos (a.k.a. the Word) is a
celestial being named Michael the arch angel. Well; I seriously doubt that an
angel comes flying out of God's mouth whenever He says something. Also,
were God's voice to be an angel, that would mean that all the while that
Michael wasn't existing as an angel when he was in human form, God was
speechless.
_
Aah, I get your point BH, truth is Jesus died on a Stauros, and it is defined as an upright pole. We believe it was a stake and that his hands were together upright. No one knows how he was hung, but the method of death is suffocation and having the arms outward is not an efficient way to accomplish this. We believe his hands were together as were his feet. The Bible has the word nails, but interestingly if you look up the original word in the Strongs it says this:
h|loß Helos (hay'-los); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 2247
- a nail
nail 2
Which is really weird as they say nails as well in their version. Who knows how many nails were used, but I believe you are trying to promote the cross as being sacred to our worship. Is not this is the real issue you are trying to promote BH?
The simple truth is sir, that the Bible does not exist. The KJV of the Bible alters many verses to support the trinity doctrine. They deliberately remove God's name and replace it with LORD, and some even have it explained in their forward if they included it. I use Ps 110:1 as a prime example as it really makes no sense, but at any rate it is easy to research today to see what occurred there originally if one is honest and sincere anyway. Does it not clearly say that YHWH said to Adonai in Hebrew BH? So why alter the passage?
@Robert Gwin
A List of Doctrines Changed in God's Word:
(Between the KJB and Modern Translations):
#1. Doctrine of The Trinity is Effected; For the Only Verse (1 John 5:7) That Point Blank Tells Us About the Trinity is Removed:
If I was on an island, and I had no clue about Christianity, the odds of my understanding the Trinity is better if I had a King James bible vs. a Modern Translation bible that removes this valuable truth on knowing the Trinity. So this proves that Modern Translations are less helpful for me to understand the Trinity by using the Bible alone.
#2. The Doctrine of Fasting So As To Cast Out Persistent Demons is Removed:
Matthew 17:21 that tells us that casting out persistent or really strong devils is by prayer and fasting. Yet, Matthew 17:21 is oddly removed in Modern Translations. Mark 9:29 mentions that you can pray to remove these kinds of devils, but it does not mention fasting. So the key doctrine of fasting so as to cast out really strong demons is gone. So the enemy wins if a person only adheres to the Modern Translations and they have a hate on for the KJV. For if you ever encountered strong demonic activity like this before, you know that fasting does actually help greatly, and not just prayer alone.
#3. The Full Version of the Doctrine on Having "No Condemnation" According to Romans 8:1 is Removed:
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Modern Translations leave out the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The KJV says, as a part of having no Condemnation: We have to (a) Be in Christ Jesus, AND: (b) Walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The enemy wants Christians today to justify sin instead of battling against it. So the enemy will do everything he can to give a person a water down version on His holy Word to promote the idea that they do not need to worry about sin destroying their soul.
#4. The Doctrine of Psalms 12:7 that the Lord will Preserve His Words Forever is Altered.
Psalms 12:6 says the words of the Lord are pure words, and in Psalms 12:7, the Psalmist says that the Lord will preserve them forever. It's kind of funny or odd that those who are against a perfect Bible existing in our world language today (i.e. the KJV) just so happen to favor Modern translations that remove and alter this very verse. Some do not even believe there is a perfect Bible out there. So who decides what words in the Bible are the true words of God? Do they decide? Now, some may say the perfect Word exists in the original languages. But Habakkuk 2:2 says write the words plainly so that he that reads it may run. So it's not going to be some gobbledygook language that nobody can understand (like biblical Hebrew, and biblical Greek). In fact, all we have today are copies of the original languages. This is not the case with the KJV. Meaning, His Word is preserved forever. His Word moved with the times. For God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. His Word does not exist perfectly in some dead language, but His Word exists in the English (Which is the world language of today).
#5. In Genesis 3:16, the ESV (Which is one of the most popular Modern Translations) Doctrinally Changes the Nature of the Truth in the KJV by Saying that Eve's (the wife's) Desire is Contrary To Her Husband.
#6. 2 Corinthians 3:12, and Habakkuk 2:2 is Altered by Modern Translations To Eliminate That God Uses Plainness of Speech.
This is important to understand because Modern Translation folk tend to prefer to look to the original languages to understand God's Word as their one and only go to source. This is not the plainness of speech that God employs. While God can speak in metaphor, or parables, He also speaks in plainness of speech, too. This has to be applicable to our life today in some way. Surely it is not a coincidence that these two key verses are eliminated in their favored Modern Translations (that influences their way of thinking).
#7. Philippians 2:7 Changes Doctrine by Removing an Aspect of the Deity of Christ During His Earthly Ministry.
Philippians 2:6-7 says correctly,
6 “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:” (Philippians 2:6-7).
King James correctly says that Christ made himself of no reputation.
Various different Modern Translations say that He “emptied himself,” and the NLT says that, “he gave up his divine privileges;” (Philippians 2:7). This is false and it is a denial of the deity of Christ. God cannot cease to become God. God cannot cut out an aspect of who He is at His core in having divine power and yet still be God. That would be a contradiction. The Modern Translations are teaching a gnostic heresy in denying that Jesus has power as God. Granted, Jesus had grown in wisdom (See: Luke 2:52), but I believe this was not an elimination of His divine powers as God, but it was a suppression of them (See: John 17:5, Habakkuk 2:14). For Jesus needed to be a like figure or type of Adam; For Adam also was limited in knowledge when He was in a right relationship with God before the Fall (See: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47). However, Jesus clearly had power as God as a man before the cross. For...
Jesus had power as God:
(during his earthly ministry):
#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).
So Modern Translations are wrong. In fact, many Christians today think Jesus gave up His divine powers; This is because of the wrong teaching (or wrong doctrine) behind Modern Translations.
Anyways, these are just a few of the red flags in Modern Translations.
But there are so many red flags in Modern Translations, it would make one think they were in a Russian airport.
I teach Jehovah is God, and Jesus is His firstborn son, If you would like to rebutt that I am willing to discuss it sir.
*** it-2 p. 313 Manuscripts of the Bible ***
The 7th, 8th, and 9th editions of the Biblia Hebraica (1951-1955) furnished the basic text used to render the Hebrew Scriptures into English in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures originally published in 1950-1960. A new edition of the Hebrew text, namely Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, is dated 1977. This edition was used for updating the information presented in the footnotes of the New World Translation published in 1984.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
I don't have any of my own in print, but just about any issue you'd like to
see can be found on the internet.
_
I don't have any of my own in print, but just about any issue you'd like to
see can be found on the internet.
_
All who believe in the spiritual resurrection of Jesus are the children of God Ron
John 3 and Romans 10
See it is a fine line sir, we believe Jesus is Divine, but we believe satan is as well, where we likely differ is who is the Almighty God, the Supreme God, and that is Jehovah in our eyes sir.
WalterandDebbie
Well-Known Member
- Dec 14, 2009
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Good Morning Robert, and how are you all? I believe there are "Two Ways of Life" as Jesus says,
Matthew Seven
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
But to answer your question I would say that the Bible identifies that Faith that was once delivered unto the Saints
- “Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude One:3) Note the word “beloved.” Contending for truth and warning of error is a work of genuine Christian love.
Deny Yourself, Take Up Your Cross, And Follow Me. Some Here Will See Me In My Kingdom
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and be following Me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what will a person be profited if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his life? Or what will a person give in-exchange-for his life?
Read full chapter
Love always, Walter
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