Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

[Robert Gwin]

Wrong. go ask some believing historians instead of the phonies in New York!

Jesus Himself said that however you value and honor the Father- you should do the same to the Son--no exceptions!

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

However you honor the Father you MUST honor the Son the same way! If you do not you do not honor the Father either!

Who really honor the Son Ron, is it not those who obey him sir? Do you make God's name known to others? Jn 17:6,26

 

[Robert Gwin]

Are we really going to have to go back there for about the fifth time????

Explain why not one of the inspired by God New Testament writers chose to put the name Yahweh in the New Testament? It appears nowhere in any of the greek manuscripts---NOWHERE!

I can tell you why and you will reject to your doom:

Because God the Father has given the name Jesus higher importance than the name Yahweh!

And remember Jesus is Yahweh Sabaoth. Every one but the Father will bow and proclaim that Jesus is Yahweh (Hebrew NT) to the glory of God the Father!

It is simply the truth sir, logic cannot explain how these extremely intelligent individuals overlooked it now can it. Yes, God protects His word, as sure as He exists. How else can you explain that after His people made God's name known throughout the inhabited earth, that He has allowed them to remove it further in their translations? Again I ask, do you know of any that have been able to completely remove it? I guess not huh?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes it does....the Tetragrammaton appears in the Greek text in Hebrew characters in the Septuagint.
View attachment 27479
You can see that this Septuagint fragment from the first century contains the Hebrew tetragrammaton in the Greek text.
The divine name was removed from the author’s own book and replaced with an ambiguous title...."Lord". But why, when it was never commanded by God to do so.....in fact Jesus said he had come to make his Father's name known. (John 17:26)

Some Bibles have the word "LORD" in capitals to denote where the tetragrammaton appeared in the original text. The KJV even does this.

What were the Israelites told at Exodus 3:13-15...?
From the Jewish Tanakh....

"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"		יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"		ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."		טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

How did the Jews interpret their own scripture here...? What is given as the meaning of God's name?

Now here it is from the KJV....

"13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."

Who is "the LORD God" mentioned here? In the Hebrew text the tetragrammaton is clearly seen, so why is God's name obscured in the KJV when it appears at Psalm 83:18?
Is "the LORD God" his name....or is it Yahweh ( יְהֹוָ֞ה) ? Can you give me a reason for the KJV's failure to identify the true God by his name when it does so only 4 times out of 7,000 ? Who decided where to allow it those 4 times and where to replace it over 6 and a half thousand times....I'd like to know.

In Exodus 34:5-5 in the Tanakh it says....

So he [Moses] hewed two stone tablets like the first ones, and Moses arose early in the morning and ascended Mount Sinai as the Lord had commanded him, and he took two stone tablets in his hand.		דוַיִּפְסֹ֡ל שְׁנֵֽי־לֻחֹ֨ת אֲבָנִ֜ים כָּרִֽאשֹׁנִ֗ים וַיַּשְׁכֵּ֨ם משֶׁ֤ה בַבֹּ֨קֶר֙ וַיַּ֨עַל֙ אֶל־הַ֣ר סִינַ֔י כַּֽאֲשֶׁ֛ר צִוָּ֥ה יְהֹוָ֖ה אֹת֑וֹ וַיִּקַּ֣ח בְּיָד֔וֹ שְׁנֵ֖י לֻחֹ֥ת אֲבָנִֽים:
5 And the Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and He called out in the name of the Lord." And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed: Lord, Lord, benevolent God, Who is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving kindness and truth".		הוַיֵּ֤רֶד יְהֹוָה֙ בֶּֽעָנָ֔ן וַיִּתְיַצֵּ֥ב עִמּ֖וֹ שָׁ֑ם וַיִּקְרָ֥א בְשֵׁ֖ם יְהֹוָֽה :ווַיַּֽעֲבֹ֨ר יְהֹוָ֥ה | עַל־פָּנָיו֘ וַיִּקְרָא֒ יְהֹוָ֣ה | יְהֹוָ֔ה אֵ֥ל רַח֖וּם וְחַנּ֑וּן אֶ֥רֶךְ אַפַּ֖יִם וְרַב־חֶ֥סֶד וֶֽאֱמֶֽת:

Do you see with what disrespect God's name is erased from his word in English? There it is in the Hebrew text as the name God declared should be "mentioned in every generation".....and you defend the ones who replaced it with a mere title.....that is disgraceful disobedience.

What human author would tolerate his name being removed from his own work and replaced with the title “Author”?

What nonsense to quibble over pronunciation when God is the inventor of all language and knows his name in all tongues.
Its not how you say it but that you use it with respect and reverence, like the Bible writers did. There is only one Yahweh. (Deut 6:4)

Well as I was pointing out to KIEW, it appears nowhere in the Greek NT. And it is not the Divine name that appears but the Greek equivalent of YHWH!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Who really honor the Son Ron, is it not those who obey him sir? Do you make God's name known to others? Jn 17:6,26

Yes I do! but John 17 does not command us to go around and make the name YHWH known. It simply says that Jesus made the divine name known to the Apostles. Nothing else. Anything else is presumptuousness on those who demand it.

We are to make the name Jesus known! We are to make disciples for HIim! And however one honors or values the Father, they MUST honor the son in the same way!!!!!!!!! That is the bible sir!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is simply the truth sir, logic cannot explain how these extremely intelligent individuals overlooked it now can it. Yes, God protects His word, as sure as He exists. How else can you explain that after His people made God's name known throughout the inhabited earth, that He has allowed them to remove it further in their translations? Again I ask, do you know of any that have been able to completely remove it? I guess not huh?

Error 1: God never made HIs name known throughout the inhabited earth.

Error 2: We have beat the OT to death.

Now answer why the writers of the New TEstament, whom god inspired to write the words- did not include Gods name as you say at all? But Jesus name is predominate in the NT? Please explain that! If you wish to live in the OT economy- I am sorry for you.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well as I was pointing out to KIEW, it appears nowhere in the Greek NT. And it is not the Divine name that appears but the Greek equivalent of YHWH!

How do you know Ron? Why do you believe the penmen of the Greek Scriptures would alter God's words when quoting the Hebrew passages. You were one that believed Jesus himself misquoted Deut 6:13, but I say he didn't, therefore one of us is right and one is wrong, who do you think it is sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes I do! but John 17 does not command us to go around and make the name YHWH known. It simply says that Jesus made the divine name known to the Apostles. Nothing else. Anything else is presumptuousness on those who demand it.

We are to make the name Jesus known! We are to make disciples for HIim! And however one honors or values the Father, they MUST honor the son in the same way!!!!!!!!! That is the bible sir!

Well, I must admit that you do Ron, but then you translate it to English as Jesus rather than Jehovah, so that is why I asked sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Error 1: God never made HIs name known throughout the inhabited earth.

Error 2: We have beat the OT to death.

Now answer why the writers of the New TEstament, whom god inspired to write the words- did not include Gods name as you say at all? But Jesus name is predominate in the NT? Please explain that! If you wish to live in the OT economy- I am sorry for you.

Covered in another post to you, but why do you think they would alter God's word when quoting? Yes sir, that is absurd! Copiests did their utmost to not make one mistake when copying the Scrolls. All of God's people would do the same.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How do you know Ron? Why do you believe the penmen of the Greek Scriptures would alter God's words when quoting the Hebrew passages. You were one that believed Jesus himself misquoted Deut 6:13, but I say he didn't, therefore one of us is right and one is wrong, who do you think it is sir.

Then let me ask you- HOw do you know they did? All the surviving Greek texts we have of the NT show not one instance of the tetragrammaton in them.

If the church was tasked with making Gods divine name known worldwide and God inspired the Scriptures and protected them since- why would they not appear in any Greek manuscript or Latin or Syriac???????????

Anyone can make an accusation, but do you have evidence or are you just fishing?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Error 1: God never made HIs name known throughout the inhabited earth.

Error 2: We have beat the OT to death.

Now answer why the writers of the New TEstament, whom god inspired to write the words- did not include Gods name as you say at all? But Jesus name is predominate in the NT? Please explain that! If you wish to live in the OT economy- I am sorry for you.

Hum, wonder why He included Ex 9:16 and Rom 10:13-15 in His inspired word sir. Oh well, it is there, and I have observed His name has saturated the earth. Guess it must just have been a freak co-incidence huh Ron?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, I must admit that you do Ron, but then you translate it to English as Jesus rather than Jehovah, so that is why I asked sir.

And if I went to Russia, I would translate it to Russian. I think God is smart enough to know that the world has many languages and that Jehoshua will translate similarly but also different in the languages. But see I also know Jesus is Yahweh.

Well tomorrow I will be offline for 10 days. Taking my wife on a very long overdue vacation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hum, wonder why He included Ex 9:16 and Rom 10:13-15 in His inspired word sir. Oh well, it is there, and I have observed His name has saturated the earth. Guess it must just have been a freak co-incidence huh Ron?

Well Romans is irrrelavent- for that is a call to go out to all lands . Not everyone has heard teh gospel of Jesus.

As for Ex. 9? You need to learn Hebrew better. The word earth there is eretz. As Hebrew did not have as many words as English, eretz had more than one meaning (hence the ABCDE in the blue letter bible).

Context determines which of the meanings applies. And in this context- it means the land and then more specifically the land of Egypt! That is where God showed His mighty deeds. And just for the record, Moses did not yet know the name YHWH yet so he could not have made it known.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Then let me ask you- HOw do you know they did? All the surviving Greek texts we have of the NT show not one instance of the tetragrammaton in them.

If the church was tasked with making Gods divine name known worldwide and God inspired the Scriptures and protected them since- why would they not appear in any Greek manuscript or Latin or Syriac???????????

Anyone can make an accusation, but do you have evidence or are you just fishing?

By Jesus' own words which I had posted before Jn 17:6,26. Why does your selected version not include God's name when Jesus stated it to his apostles and others? Since he stated he made God's name known, and yes your Bible states that, you do believe it correct?

 

[Robert Gwin]

And if I went to Russia, I would translate it to Russian. I think God is smart enough to know that the world has many languages and that Jehoshua will translate similarly but also different in the languages. But see I also know Jesus is Yahweh.

Well tomorrow I will be offline for 10 days. Taking my wife on a very long overdue vacation.

Fantastic Ron, have a great time sir, look forward to your return.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well Romans is irrrelavent- for that is a call to go out to all lands . Not everyone has heard teh gospel of Jesus.

As for Ex. 9? You need to learn Hebrew better. The word earth there is eretz. As Hebrew did not have as many words as English, eretz had more than one meaning (hence the ABCDE in the blue letter bible).

Context determines which of the meanings applies. And in this context- it means the land and then more specifically the land of Egypt! That is where God showed His mighty deeds. And just for the record, Moses did not yet know the name YHWH yet so he could not have made it known.

God's name was first introduced to us at Gen 2:4. Moses penned that sir. You have been watching too many movies, the God portrayed as having no name, was well known among the descendants of Abraham. Of course your opinion will differ. You will probably use the account recorded in Ex 3 to prove your point, but remember when Moses penned the books he penned, it was done after their leaving Egypt.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

In answer only to the OP,
 NO.
In the definition of the world who accepts any religion calling themselves " christian" as such, probably.

According to the word of God, NO.
They do NOT live by the word of God but in a belief system created by man which is against the word. Sure they sprinkle a little truth on the bitter seed to hide the true taste. A twisted, mal-formed gospel is NOT THE GOSPEL OF THE CHRIST!

 

[Dropship]

..A twisted, mal-formed gospel is NOT THE GOSPEL OF THE CHRIST!..

Agreed..
"If anyone preaches a perverted gospel they are accursed" (Galatians 1:6-9)
There are many large and small denominations and cults around who are "spiritual perverts" in Satan's grip, it's a vanity thing, each of them thinking they're special because he's convinced them that they can see "hidden truths" that the rest of us poor shmucks can't..

 

[Robert Gwin]

In answer only to the OP,
 NO.
In the definition of the world who accepts any religion calling themselves " christian" as such, probably.

According to the word of God, NO.
They do NOT live by the word of God but in a belief system created by man which is against the word. Sure they sprinkle a little truth on the bitter seed to hide the true taste. A twisted, mal-formed gospel is NOT THE GOSPEL OF THE CHRIST!

Thanks for your honest answer L3, do you have an example of how we fail?

 

[Dropship]

Jesus never called God 'Jehovah', he called him "Father", and he said we should too, e.g.- "Our Father which art in heaven".
After all, children don't call their fathers by their christian names do they?
So calling God 'Jehovah' is to disrespect him, making JW's candidates for-

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Thanks for your honest answer L3, do you have an example of how we fail?

Any that follow the society, the pope, any so called prophets or prophetess' rather than what God says in his word are NOT true believers.

Any that re-write God's word to suit themselves and their particular cult are not followers of God but man.

It's like ppl are under the Mafia. Crime Lord's demand respect of their rules or you DIE.........PPL BELIEVE THIS !

Just bc someone doesn't believe what God says about ALL things he has created and HIS plan DOES NOT mean they will not receive the consequences.

Now don't tell me any nonsense about oh but we do believe and OBEY, we both know better!