Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
He said: "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father"
What does that mean to you?
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” John 20:28
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He said: "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father"
What does that mean to you?
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” John 20:28
“Like Father, like son”. Jesus so accurately reflected his Father’s personality, that to see Jesus was to see his Father, who was also his God. He is a servant of his Father, not an equal. (Acts 4:27)He said: "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father"
What does that mean to you?
Most assuredly said my Lord to Jesus and looked to heaven and said my God. Thefact is every Israelite knew 100% the Messiah has a God.( Psalm 45:7) And everyone knows God does not have a God, so its the only feasable explanation of Thomas words.
Ya know.....real Christians do not have to explain away the scriptures or produce their own denominational Bible to change the scriptures to support their own beliefs. And there is so many Protestant denominations, but if you look at their history they splintered off of older Protestant denominations, for one reason or another. But the Jehovah's Witnesses are a relatively new denomination the seemed to pop out of nowhere. A heresy that has a very Jewish tang to it. The Jews in the day thought that Christ was a magician. And in many ways it is an attack on Christ and Christianity. They say Christ was not Divine....they say hell does not exist.....they do not celebrate Christian holidays. Like a cult they excommunicate some that leave their denomination, even their family....and what do they do to their families?
What is the Two Witness Rule within the Jehovah's Witnesses....it is the subject of intense international criticism, lawsuits and a Royal Commission, the Two Witness Rule is the Jehovah Witnesses’ interpretation of scripture that, in the absence of a confession, there must be two material witnesses to a sin for them to act on it.
Critics say the policy protects accused pedophiles, because there are rarely witnesses to sexual abuse. Perverts don't usually molest children in front of their friends and neighbors.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses Governing Body insist they “abhor sexual abuse,” do not protect pedophiles and educate followers on protecting children.
Now I have worked with professional interventionists to rescue young people from that denomination. As I have said, I do not consider the Jehovah's Witnesses as a cult but interventionists definitely consider them a cult. And one of the strangest sessions that I witnessed was with a very intelligent 10 year old...almost spooky intelligence like she had the Bible memorized. She did not have a lot of good things to say about Christ. You could tell her religious reverences focused on God the Father.
In the middle the session one the interventionists walked away and called the sheriff department. Because the little girl's conversation had turned to a discussion of having sex with her father. And she defended it as if it was a religious belief of the Jehovah's Witnesses and felt honored to get on her knees before her father.
I was not surprised of the sexual contact, just the religious element of it. Was this a personal belief of her's or an underlying belief of some in the organization....sexual perversions are a characteristic of cults.
The Sheriff listened to part of the interview and could hardly contained himself. She was speaking with pride and she told of a time when her older sister tried to run away and her father stripped her and beat her with a belt. The father was arrested just a few minutes later.
Now the reason I was not surprised about the incest is because if you look on the internet this a worldwide problem with the Jehovah's Witnesses....arrests and court cases.
Type this into your browser and it will bring up testimonies of past Jehovah's witnesses that were abused. Select videos.
testimonies of former jehovah's witnesses sexual molestations
Jesus taught--Members of ones own household would be their enemies. Matt 10:36---
About disfellowshipping--Titus 1:13--Reprove with severity. 1Cor 5:9-13--do not even share a meal with one who was called brother or sister( baptized) who became unrepentent.
Gods word demands 2 witnesses to prove a matter. John 8:17) So you need to take that up with him.
The JW,s would never condone paedophiles. There are bad men every where on earth, even in Gods religion, in every religion.--Remember Judas, he isnt the only one. The Israelites fell over and over, any one can fall and practice bad.
When Jesus quoted scripture, the Jews were familiar with the verses he quoted from their perspective, yet to his apostles he still added commentary to make sure they got the point.I get answers from Sripture without commentary
The Jews to this day do not worship a triune god for the same reason that Jesus never mentioned one. At that time, only the pagans had triune deities. Yahweh was different to the gods of the nations because he was “ONE”....no scripture says he is three.Well you rproblem is god has laways been a three in one god. Maybe unrevealed to most Israelis, but they had enough clues.
Why? He was distinguishing himself from the false gods of the nations, so why would he not emphasize that he was “ONE”?The Shma- Hear O Israel Jehovah your Elohim is one Jehovah- Totally nonsensical grammar and thinking if Jehovah was only one person.
I cannot find a reference for echad in any of my research tools.But one here is "echad" which in Hebrew is the one used often for "compound one"
There is more than one explanation for the plural....Elohim is plural
Adaonai is plural.
Since the “image” that God speaks about is not a physical image, (he is an invisible spirit) that has to mean that intelligent beings were created with the Creator’s qualities....his moral characteristics.God said let "us" make man in "our image" We are not made in the image of God and angels
Clues??? Is that what you base your trinitarian beliefs on? That is circumstantial evidence which scripturally is inadmissible because there is no clear, direct statement about it.....yet there are clear direct, statements against it.Many other OT clues, that awaited teh NT to clarify!
I believe that the opposite is true, judging by Israel’s history and their constant defections into false worship.But even Stan himself gives us a clue! Satan is the great imitator and counterfeiter. IN the OT days when he established his many pagan religions, most of them has a TRIAD of head gods with the demi gods being the angels etc. Triad is a counterfeit for the biblical trinity./
Years ago read a book about JW’s , and it stated that a young man left an Adventist Church because he was not happy with them preaching about hell and a few other things. He started to write his own tracts and found that people were interested in what he had to say - so he continued. He was apparently the founder of the JW’s , if it was true then this denomination actually came from an off shoot of the Adventist Church in 1884 , originally the watch towers and tract society - it became the Jehovah witnesses in 1931.Ya know.....real Christians do not have to explain away the scriptures or produce their own denominational Bible to change the scriptures to support their own beliefs. And there is so many Protestant denominations, but if you look at their history they splintered off of older Protestant denominations, for one reason or another. But the Jehovah's Witnesses are a relatively new denomination the seemed to pop out of nowhere. A heresy that has a very Jewish tang to it. The Jews in the day thought that Christ was a magician. And in many ways it is an attack on Christ and Christianity. They say Christ was not Divine....they say hell does not exist.....they do not celebrate Christian holidays. Like a cult they excommunicate some that leave their denomination, even their family....and what do they do to their families?
Years ago read a book about JW’s , and it stated that a young man left an Adventist Church because he was not happy with them preaching about hell and a few other things. He started to write his own tracts and found that people were interested in what he had to say - so he continued. He was apparently the founder of the JW’s , if it was true then this denomination actually came from an off shoot of the Adventist Church in 1884 , originally the watch towers and tract society - it became the Jehovah witnesses in 1931.
Rita, I am really sorry if you had a bad experience with one man who sounds like he was not a good example of what we teach....yet when its close to home, things can be misconstrued and misunderstood. Since I don't have the other side of this story, (and I am assuming it was a long time ago) I will reserve judgment. But let me assure you that those who do not live the truth that Jesus taught, regardless of the label they wear, will not get past the front door of the Kingdom. The one thing that God hates intensely is hypocrisy. Jesus castigated the Pharisees for that reason...pretending to be the pious teachers of God's word when their actions spoke louder than their words. (Matthew 23)Years ago read a book about JW’s , and it stated that a young man left an Adventist Church because he was not happy with them preaching about hell and a few other things. He started to write his own tracts and found that people were interested in what he had to say - so he continued. He was apparently the founder of the JW’s , if it was true then this denomination actually came from an off shoot of the Adventist Church in 1884 , originally the watch towers and tract society - it became the Jehovah witnesses in 1931.
My Ex husbands uncle was quite high up in the church and would come over and stay with us, the way he treated his wife was appalling, he never really offered to pay for anything , didn’t hold with blood transfusions but was quite happy to eat rare steak with blood oozing out of it ( never understood that ), he had also been divorced twice and left one wife here in England to go and marry someone else in the USA. Yet he was considered perfectly okay to be a leader within the church. He would preach continuously and we would always get visits from the local JWs before and after his visits.
Sad to say I had little respect for him or what he stood for, I had been a Christian for about Two years when I first met him. He would accuse me of all kinds of things. When my marriage ended because of my husbands adultery he accused me of being to blame because of Eves actions in the garden !
Oh yes, he also accused me of being of the devil because I was. Christian outside of the JW’s …..
Sorry gone off topic !
and it stated that a young man left an Adventist Church because he was not happy with them preaching about hell and a few other things.
Yes and it was Russell who left the Adventist church. I see what you are saying , although It sounded as if he didn’t totally disagree with everything the taught, only certain things. Sadly we don’t know what was in the original tracts , and as we know teaching can change. So it may well have contained some of the teaching from the Adventist’s that he agreed with, which would mean it was an off shoot that then completely went a separate way over timeOh no you did not....you said....and it stated that a young man left an Adventist Church because he was not happy with them preaching about hell and a few other things.....so it is not like Jehovah's Witnesses splintered off that denomination. It pretty much was the brain child of Charles Taze Russell.
verse 4 proves my point. If God didnt make the name Jesus above other names he would be equal to the angels---one cannot reason it any different.
No the angels did not worship him, they bowed in obesiance to Gods appointed king. Its the same Greek word used for worship to God. Jesus has a God. God does not have a God.
When Jesus quoted scripture, the Jews were familiar with the verses he quoted from their perspective, yet to his apostles he still added commentary to make sure they got the point.
The Jews to this day do not worship a triune god for the same reason that Jesus never mentioned one. At that time, only the pagans had triune deities. Yahweh was different to the gods of the nations because he was “ONE”....no scripture says he is three.
Why? He was distinguishing himself from the false gods of the nations, so why would he not emphasize that he was “ONE”?
Multiplicities of gods were a trait of false worship....never believed by the true worshippers of Yahweh.
I cannot find a reference for echad in any of my research tools.
Perhaps you can tell me why...?
There is more than one explanation for the plural....
There is the plural of majesty...the royal “WE”.
There is also another person whom Yahweh was addressing....not a separate part of himself, but his Logos, who has been with Yahweh since creation began.
John 1:1 confirms this...."the beginning” is a meaningless term when describing an eternal Being who had no beginning and who will have no end to his existence. So “In the beginning” there, has to be the same sort of “beginning” as Genesis 1:1....there was a time when the Word (Logos) did not exist and was created by his Father, who was his begetter long before his earthly mission.
“Monogenes” (only begotten) means an only or unique child.....the son of God was his first “creation” as Jesus says in Revelation 3:14 and Paul said in Colossians 1:15.
He is God’s “firstborn” and for a time was his only child.....he then was instrumental in bringing about all creation at his Father’s side, (Proverbs 8:30-31)....but he is not and never was Yahweh.
He was the ‘construction crew’ putting the raw materials together that his Father had brought into existence....he is never once called “the Creator”. He was the fabricator....the one "through" whom all creation was made. (Colossians 1:15-17)
Clues??? Is that what you base your trinitarian beliefs on? That is circumstantial evidence which scripturally is inadmissible because there is no clear, direct statement about it.....yet there are clear direct, statements against it.
Jesus plainly stated “the Father is greater than I am”....he also said he ‘could do nothing of his own but only what the Father had taught him’....
John 5:19-20...
"Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel." (NKJV)
The apostles were in no doubt as to who was their “God” and who was their “Lord”.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6.....
"For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live..”
Clear unequivocal statements outdo “clues” as to who Yahweh is and who his son is.....the scriptures do not teach a trinity unless you squeeze meaning into verses that are easy to manipulate. English translations were written with a trinitarian viewpoint and hence skewed towards that RCC invented doctrine......as authentic as “Mary the mother of God" and "purgatory".
if they believe there is no hell they can live their lives and do what they want and the
worse that can happen is to die.....oblivion. In their religion it does not matter if you are
Jehovah's Witness or a pagan either way the punishment is the same.....oblivion. They
believe bad people or destroyed, erased, oblivion.....not conscience of
anything.
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Continued From No.1054
There's a spiritual term in JW jargon called "life force". This element of a
sentient being's existence doesn't expire at death; and can be transferred
from one form to an entirely different form.
For example in the JW religion, Michael the archangel's life force was
transferred to Mary's ovum so an angel could come into the world as a man;
and then later when his human form passed away on the cross, Michael's life
force was returned to its angel form so he could be his old self again.
Life force isn't nondescript, viz: when Michael's life force was transferred to
Mary's ovum, he retained the continuity of his individuality.
Now, it seems reasonable to me that if angels exist by means of life force,
then humans probably do too. That suggests the possibility that a human's
life force can be transferred to a different form in a manner similar to
transferring an angel's life force to a different form.
That helps lend some credibility to the story told at Luke 16:19-31. All three
of the men in that story are deceased, yet there they are; fully conscious in
the afterlife.
• Ecc 12:7 . . Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be
and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.
The million-dollar question is: What comes next for a Jehovah's Witness' life
force when it gets back in God's hands?
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