Are only 144,000 saved? (Rev 14:1)

[L.A.M.B.]

Amen to that. I do not see how they get that Theory on them not being Israelis. I mean, 12,000 from every part of the Country.

Couldn't agree more...... HOW, can any NOT comprehend what is plainly written!

 

[PinSeeker]

I think Rev. 7:4-5 are pretty clear about the 144,000:

4And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel: 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000,…

The numbers are symbolic, Nancy, as is most of John's Revelation. Symbolic of the fullness/completeness of God's people, which will be, ultimately, an innumerable multitude, from every tongue, tribe, and nation ~ as we see in Revelation 7:9-17. Even according to God's promise to Abraham way back in Genesis, that his descendants would number as the stars of the heavens, the grains of sand on the seashore... far more than anyone can count. Except for God, of course, Who knows all the stars by name.

As for myself, I choose heaven, never want to see planet earth again !

Hmm, not even after the final Judgment, when the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven to us? When all things are made new? And the dwelling place of God is with man? Because that will be a great thing... Surely you don't want to miss out on that...

Amen to that. I do not see how they get that Theory on them not being Israelis. I mean, 12,000 from every part of the Country.

God's Israel does not consist of merely Israelis as we think of Israelis. See above response to Nancy...

Grace and peace to all!

 

[FaithWillDo]

The numbers are symbolic, Nancy, as is most of John's Revelation. Symbolic of the fullness/completeness of God's people, which will be, ultimately, an innumerable multitude, from every tongue, tribe, and nation ~ as we see in Revelation 7:9-17. Even according to God's promise to Abraham way back in Genesis, that his descendants would number as the stars of the heavens, the grains of sand on the seashore... far more than anyone can count. Except for God, of course, Who knows all the stars by name.


Hmm, not even after the final Judgment, when the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven to us? When all things are made new? And the dwelling place of God is with man? Because that will be a great thing...


God's Israel does not consist of merely Israelis as we think of Israelis. See above response to Nancy...

Grace and peace to all!

Dear PinSeeker,
You said:
The numbers are symbolic...

Yes, the numbers in Revelation are symbolic. They are spiritual symbols and are not literal numbers.

Spiritual symbols have meanings which are different than what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13). They cannot be properly understood carnally (outwardly and physically).

The number for the Kingdom of Heaven is 12. The number 1000 is understood as 10x10x10 and represents a complete spiritual process. That is how to understand the number 12,000.

"12,000 from each tribe" represents all the Elect who will make up the harvest of First Fruits. They are spiritual Jews and have been chosen for this blessing from the foundation of the world. No one else will be saved in this age.

The Elect begin the process of salvation when they receive the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13-14). This is also called the Early Rain. This is the earnest amount of the Spirit which "seals" an Elect believer until their day of redemption. The sealing of the Elect is still an ongoing process because this age has not ended.

This is what the first half of chapter 7 is teaching.

The second half of the chapter teaches the salvation of the Elect. This occurs when a "sealed" Elect believer receives the baptism of the Spirit. This is also called the Latter Rain. After an Elect believer has been redeemed (born again), the new child of God is gathered to heaven (spiritually speaking) to dwell with Christ (Mat 24:29-31). This is also an ongoing process in this age.

The book of Revelation teaches its truth by spiritual symbols. And the truth that the book teaches will be "kept" by the Elect:

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

In other words, the book of Revelation is teaching the pathway to salvation which all the Elect will travel before they die.

The teachings of the book are an ongoing spiritual process within the lifetime of each Elect believer. The teachings are not one-time events which are literally fulfilled at the end of this age. This common understanding is false and it comes from a carnal understanding of the vision.

The book also says that Christ will "come quickly" and that He "is, was and will be coming". This is true because His coming occurs when He comes to each of His Elect to give them the Latter Rain and salvation. The Second Coming of Christ is not a one-time event at the end of this age.

John is also told not to seal the book because the time for its fulfillment is "at hand":

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

The teachings of the book of Revelation are just as relevant today as they were for the 1st Century Elect.

Joe

 

[PinSeeker]

Dear PinSeeker,
You said:
The numbers are symbolic...

Yes, the numbers in Revelation are symbolic. They are spiritual symbols and are not literal numbers.

Spiritual symbols have meanings which are different than what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13). They cannot be properly understood carnally (outwardly and physically).

The number for the Kingdom of Heaven is 12. The number 1000 is understood as 10x10x10 and represents a complete spiritual process. That is how to understand the number 12,000.

"12,000 from each tribe" represents all the Elect who will make up the harvest of First Fruits. They are spiritual Jews and have been chosen for this blessing from the foundation of the world. No one else will be saved in this age.

The Elect begin the process of salvation when they receive the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13-14). This is also called the Early Rain. This is the earnest amount of the Spirit which "seals" an Elect believer until their day of redemption. The sealing of the Elect is still an ongoing process because this age has not ended.

This is what the first half of chapter 7 is teaching.

The second half of the chapter teaches the salvation of the Elect. This occurs when a "sealed" Elect believer receives the baptism of the Spirit. This is also called the Latter Rain. After an Elect believer has been redeemed (born again), the new child of God is gathered to heaven (spiritually speaking) to dwell with Christ (Mat 24:29-31). This is also an ongoing process in this age.

The book of Revelation teaches its truth by spiritual symbols. And the truth that the book teaches will be "kept" by the Elect:

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

In other words, the book of Revelation is teaching the pathway to salvation which all the Elect will travel before they die.

The teachings of the book are an ongoing spiritual process within the lifetime of each Elect believer. The teachings are not one-time events which are literally fulfilled at the end of this age. This common understanding is false and it comes from a carnal understanding of the vision.

The book also says that Christ will "come quickly" and that He "is, was and will be coming". This is true because His coming occurs when He comes to each of His Elect to give them the Latter Rain and salvation. The Second Coming of Christ is not a one-time event at the end of this age.

John is also told not to seal the book because the time for its fulfillment is "at hand":

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

The teachings of the book of Revelation are just as relevant today as they were for the 1st Century Elect.

Joe

Thanks for agreeing, Joe. Sounds like you and I think along the same glorious lines and have the same understandings. Now, whether our minds are really "great" or not is probably debatable... ... but yes, they do think alike...

Grace and peace to you.