Are only 144,000 saved? (Rev 14:1)

[RR144]

avedNo. 144,000 is the number of saints or the bride of Christ. Revelation 14:1, 4 (NKJV),… “one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads. ... not defiled with women, … are virgins…. the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.” In this present life, only the saints have obediently followed Jesus.

Are the rest of mankind redeemed? Yes!

“Who (?Jesus?) gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." - 1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) A ransom is a corresponding price. It is the price paid in place of the one to be released. Hence it is of equal value to the prisoner. Recall 1 Corinthians 15:22, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” Jesus was the price of equal value corresponding to Adam.

How was Jesus considered equal to Adam?

Adam was a perfect man created in God’s image. (See Genesis 1:27 and Deuteronomy 32:4.) None of Adam’s offspring could redeem Adam because we are all imperfect - “… a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.” - Psalm 51:5 (NET) God’s justice, declared in the Law, requires a life for a life. An equal payment (Exodus 21:23). In the special case of Adam, a perfect human life was plunged into death and required a perfect human life to ransom him from death. Thus, as 1 Timothy 2:6 states, Jesus was that perfect human life.

To further explain, Adam had a perfect human race within his loins. Jesus also had a perfect human race within himself. When Jesus redeemed Adam, the corresponding price for Adam’s unborn, sinful race was Jesus’s unborn, perfect human race. God’s law of a life for a life was upheld.

1 Timothy 2:6 also states that this truth will be made known “in due time.” What is the due time? Today, the high calling to follow in Jesus’s sacrificial footsteps is open. The purpose is to call out the church class. These are the first fruits (Revelation 4:4). They receive the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) with the heavenly reward of sitting with Jesus on thrones in heaven (Revelation 20:3, Luke 22:30). These are the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14.

However, a great number of redeemed, spirit-begotten Christians are not willingly faithful to their covenant to sacrifice their wills and flesh (Romans 12:1) to do only God’s will. These need tribulation to wash their robes (Revelation 7:9). While they do receive a heavenly resurrection, they do not receive the divine nature. They stand before Christ’s throne to serve God.

The due time for mankind to receive redemption will be during the general human resurrection when Christ reigns on Earth. Then, “…I (God) will put my law within them (starting with Israel and spreading to all), and I will write it upon their hearts; … I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." - Jeremiah 31:33-34 RSV

Jesus redeemed ALL!

 

[Earburner]

avedNo. 144,000 is the number of saints or the bride of Christ. Revelation 14:1, 4 (NKJV),… “one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads. ... not defiled with women, … are virgins…. the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.” In this present life, only the saints have obediently followed Jesus.

Are the rest of mankind redeemed? Yes!

“Who (?Jesus?) gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." - 1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) A ransom is a corresponding price. It is the price paid in place of the one to be released. Hence it is of equal value to the prisoner. Recall 1 Corinthians 15:22, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” Jesus was the price of equal value corresponding to Adam.

How was Jesus considered equal to Adam?

Adam was a perfect man created in God’s image. (See Genesis 1:27 and Deuteronomy 32:4.) None of Adam’s offspring could redeem Adam because we are all imperfect - “… a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.” - Psalm 51:5 (NET) God’s justice, declared in the Law, requires a life for a life. An equal payment (Exodus 21:23). In the special case of Adam, a perfect human life was plunged into death and required a perfect human life to ransom him from death. Thus, as 1 Timothy 2:6 states, Jesus was that perfect human life.

To further explain, Adam had a perfect human race within his loins. Jesus also had a perfect human race within himself. When Jesus redeemed Adam, the corresponding price for Adam’s unborn, sinful race was Jesus’s unborn, perfect human race. God’s law of a life for a life was upheld.

1 Timothy 2:6 also states that this truth will be made known “in due time.” What is the due time? Today, the high calling to follow in Jesus’s sacrificial footsteps is open. The purpose is to call out the church class. These are the first fruits (Revelation 4:4). They receive the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) with the heavenly reward of sitting with Jesus on thrones in heaven (Revelation 20:3, Luke 22:30). These are the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14.

However, a great number of redeemed, spirit-begotten Christians are not willingly faithful to their covenant to sacrifice their wills and flesh (Romans 12:1) to do only God’s will. These need tribulation to wash their robes (Revelation 7:9). While they do receive a heavenly resurrection, they do not receive the divine nature. They stand before Christ’s throne to serve God.

The due time for mankind to receive redemption will be during the general human resurrection when Christ reigns on Earth. Then, “…I (God) will put my law within them (starting with Israel and spreading to all), and I will write it upon their hearts; … I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." - Jeremiah 31:33-34 RSV

Jesus redeemed ALL!

The symbolic number of 144,000 is all of Israel of faith under the OC. They were kept In remembrance by God (the permanency of the Holy Spirit had not yet been given) Malachi 3:16.
We can see them under the altar (of the OC.) receiving the Holy Spirit, as shown in Rev. 6:9-11

 

[FaithWillDo]

144,000 is the number of saints or the bride of Christ. Revelation 14:1, 4 (NKJV),… “one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads. ... not defiled with women, … are virgins…. the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.” In this present life, only the saints have obediently followed Jesus.

Are the rest of mankind redeemed? Yes!

Dear RR144,
I certainly agree that Christ is the Savior of the world; meaning that Christ will save 100% of mankind.

However, the "144,000" is not a literal number as you seem to imply. It is a spiritual symbol which carries a meaning "not taught by man's wisdom":

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Scripture is written in the spiritual language of Christ. The truth of its messages are concealed by "types" and "symbols". To understand the symbols, Paul says to compare "spiritual things with spiritual".

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

The number 144,000 is understood as 12x12x10x10x10. The number 12 represents the Kingdom of Heaven. The number 2 (12x12) represents the Elect who are the witnesses of Christ in this world. The number 10 represents completeness. The number 3 (10x10x10) represents a spiritual process. When all the symbols are combined into 144,000, the number means that those who are being sealed are the Elect who make up the Kingdom of Heaven and that they will be made complete by the spiritual process they are about to go through. When the process is complete, they will stand before the throne (Rev 7:9-17) as fully converted sons of God.

The sealing of the Elect occurs when they receive the Early Rain (Holy Spirit of Promise):

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of Promise (Early Rain), 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession (Latter Rain), unto the praise of his glory.

The Elect will be spiritually resurrected (Rev 20:5-6) when they receive Latter Rain (Baptism of the Spirit) which is what the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost. At that time, Christ will gather the newly born child of God to dwell with Him in Heaven (spiritually speaking). In other words, the believer will no longer dwell upon the earth as mankind does but will now dwell in Heaven.

Here are the symbols which apply:

Sea: place where unbelievers dwell.
Earth: place where called out believers (the church) dwell.
Heaven: place where converted believers dwell.

These terms are spiritual symbols which apply "within" a person. They are not physical locations.

This scripture below teaches the moment of conversion when an Elect believer is saved and rises to dwell in Heaven:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You said:
Adam was a perfect man created in God’s image.

Adam was created as a spiritual being who has self awareness (God's image). However, Adam's spirit was "marred" and subject to vanity (sin).

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Adam's spirit was not the same spirit (Holy Spirit) which dwells in Christ.

The flaw in Adam's spirit was that it was "weak". Because it was weak, the physical body Adam was given caused Adam to become "carnally minded". Rather than Adam obeying his Creator, Adam's first priority was to obey the needs of his flesh. As a result, Adam sinned (as do all of his offspring).

After God rested from the six days of creation, God said that His creation was "good"; and it was good for God's purpose of creating new children who will be like Him. To be like Him, God requires His children to have a knowledge of good and evil:

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

After God's purpose for evil has been satisfied within each person, He will "convert" them into His children. For this work of conversion, God the Father sent Christ into the world:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Christ has a plan and a process to convert all mankind into children of God. It is a plan which includes great tribulation so that mankind will experience evil to the fullest. This time of great tribulation occurs between the Early and Latter Rains. That time period is symbolized by the terms "time, times and a half", 3 1/2 years, 42 months and 1260 days. It is also typed by Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought.

During this time of drought, mankind will become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). The symbols for a person in this worsened spiritual condition are: Man of Sin, False Prophet, Minister of Satan, Wolves, and the Seven Headed Beast w/10 Horns & Crowns.

As a Man of Sin, the believer will walk in darkness and will be under the influence of Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ. When Christ "comes again" to one of His Elect, He will bring "sudden destruction" upon them:

1Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

When a believer is in this worsened spiritual state, they are utterly deceived by Satan and are in his apostate church. In Satan's church, they have accepted "another gospel" (2Cor 11:4) and are dwelling in darkness. They are also dwelling in "peace and safety" because they believe they are following the true Christ and are saved.

For the Elect, this will all change for them when Christ suddenly comes to them a second time (the second coming of Christ) and pours out the Latter Rain. With the Latter Rain, the Elect believer's spiritual blindness will be healed. Now with "eyes that can see", the Man of Sin will be revealed to them and they will see that he is the one who is looking back at them in the mirror. At that time, they will also see the Abomination of Desolation which caused them to "fall away" and lose their salvation. With these events, the Elect believer's moment of conversion arrives and Christ will "appear" to them. Christ will then gather the new child of God to dwell with Him in Heaven (spiritually speaking, not literally).

What I have briefly explained above is the Pathway to Salvation which Christ causes His Elect to travel during their lifetimes.

One final point: End-time prophecy teaches the steps of this pathway, as does the book of Revelation. The prophecies are not teaching on future outward world events as is commonly believed. The events are spiritual and happen "within" a believer.

Once the Elect believer is converted, they will spiritually stand before the throne as presented in Rev 7:9-17.

Joe

 

[Karl Peters]

REv 7:9,10 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

It is kind of important to read the whole Bible and talk to the Lord about all of it!

There is a "great multitude" and comes "from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues", and they are seen in heaven by John saying loudly, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb".

Now what was that question again? -

Are only 144,000 saved?​

Obviously not!!!!

The Bible explains that the 144,000 were from the "tribe of the sons of Israel:"

We read that, right?

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

So not "from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues"!!!

Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

There is the 144,000 saved from the tribe of the sons of Israel - and then there is the great multitude save from "from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues" thanks to God giving the world His only begotten Son!!


The thing that really gets my attention from these passage is that if only 144,000 are save from the tribe of the sons of Israel, and though they might not have been a high percent of the worlds population they were certainly a lot more than 144,000, what percent of the rest of the world makes up the great multitude??? It might be a great multitude, but it might also be that great multitude is only a very small percent of the population of people that at one time lived in the flesh on this planet!

He said His sheep hear His voice, and we know that those from the tribe of Israel who wrote the Bible hear His voice, and that hearing by faith was counted as righteousness to those like Abram (Gen 15). So are we actually seeking Him and listening to His voice, by faith?? As for me, I was told I am not part of the 144,000, but I was told I was part of the great multitude. I believe Him.

He even gave me a vision, like in a movie, where there were sooo many people in white robes that all you could see were people in white robes. Then it came in closer and closer and there in the midst of that was me, and with my hands raised in praise. That was interesting, but I am one to usually raise my hands at church, but sometimes depending on the service and Christian church I am at. My hope is that it is exactly like I saw and heard from Him, my Lord.

If you come to know Him, He starts giving you understanding of the Bible. Not that everyone has that understanding.

 

[Bob Estey]

avedNo. 144,000 is the number of saints or the bride of Christ. Revelation 14:1, 4 (NKJV),… “one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads. ... not defiled with women, … are virgins…. the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.” In this present life, only the saints have obediently followed Jesus.

Are the rest of mankind redeemed? Yes!

“Who (?Jesus?) gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." - 1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) A ransom is a corresponding price. It is the price paid in place of the one to be released. Hence it is of equal value to the prisoner. Recall 1 Corinthians 15:22, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” Jesus was the price of equal value corresponding to Adam.

How was Jesus considered equal to Adam?

Adam was a perfect man created in God’s image. (See Genesis 1:27 and Deuteronomy 32:4.) None of Adam’s offspring could redeem Adam because we are all imperfect - “… a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.” - Psalm 51:5 (NET) God’s justice, declared in the Law, requires a life for a life. An equal payment (Exodus 21:23). In the special case of Adam, a perfect human life was plunged into death and required a perfect human life to ransom him from death. Thus, as 1 Timothy 2:6 states, Jesus was that perfect human life.

To further explain, Adam had a perfect human race within his loins. Jesus also had a perfect human race within himself. When Jesus redeemed Adam, the corresponding price for Adam’s unborn, sinful race was Jesus’s unborn, perfect human race. God’s law of a life for a life was upheld.

1 Timothy 2:6 also states that this truth will be made known “in due time.” What is the due time? Today, the high calling to follow in Jesus’s sacrificial footsteps is open. The purpose is to call out the church class. These are the first fruits (Revelation 4:4). They receive the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) with the heavenly reward of sitting with Jesus on thrones in heaven (Revelation 20:3, Luke 22:30). These are the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14.

However, a great number of redeemed, spirit-begotten Christians are not willingly faithful to their covenant to sacrifice their wills and flesh (Romans 12:1) to do only God’s will. These need tribulation to wash their robes (Revelation 7:9). While they do receive a heavenly resurrection, they do not receive the divine nature. They stand before Christ’s throne to serve God.

The due time for mankind to receive redemption will be during the general human resurrection when Christ reigns on Earth. Then, “…I (God) will put my law within them (starting with Israel and spreading to all), and I will write it upon their hearts; … I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." - Jeremiah 31:33-34 RSV

Jesus redeemed ALL!

Perhaps "144,000" is to demonstrate the path isn't an easy one. If we don't apply ourselves, there is a price to pay.

 

[David in NJ]

avedNo. 144,000 is the number of saints or the bride of Christ. Revelation 14:1, 4 (NKJV),… “one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads. ... not defiled with women, … are virgins…. the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes.” In this present life, only the saints have obediently followed Jesus.

Are the rest of mankind redeemed? Yes!

“Who (?Jesus?) gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." - 1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) A ransom is a corresponding price. It is the price paid in place of the one to be released. Hence it is of equal value to the prisoner. Recall 1 Corinthians 15:22, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” Jesus was the price of equal value corresponding to Adam.

How was Jesus considered equal to Adam?

Adam was a perfect man created in God’s image. (See Genesis 1:27 and Deuteronomy 32:4.) None of Adam’s offspring could redeem Adam because we are all imperfect - “… a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.” - Psalm 51:5 (NET) God’s justice, declared in the Law, requires a life for a life. An equal payment (Exodus 21:23). In the special case of Adam, a perfect human life was plunged into death and required a perfect human life to ransom him from death. Thus, as 1 Timothy 2:6 states, Jesus was that perfect human life.

To further explain, Adam had a perfect human race within his loins. Jesus also had a perfect human race within himself. When Jesus redeemed Adam, the corresponding price for Adam’s unborn, sinful race was Jesus’s unborn, perfect human race. God’s law of a life for a life was upheld.

1 Timothy 2:6 also states that this truth will be made known “in due time.” What is the due time? Today, the high calling to follow in Jesus’s sacrificial footsteps is open. The purpose is to call out the church class. These are the first fruits (Revelation 4:4). They receive the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) with the heavenly reward of sitting with Jesus on thrones in heaven (Revelation 20:3, Luke 22:30). These are the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14.

However, a great number of redeemed, spirit-begotten Christians are not willingly faithful to their covenant to sacrifice their wills and flesh (Romans 12:1) to do only God’s will. These need tribulation to wash their robes (Revelation 7:9). While they do receive a heavenly resurrection, they do not receive the divine nature. They stand before Christ’s throne to serve God.

The due time for mankind to receive redemption will be during the general human resurrection when Christ reigns on Earth. Then, “…I (God) will put my law within them (starting with Israel and spreading to all), and I will write it upon their hearts; … I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." - Jeremiah 31:33-34 RSV

Jesus redeemed ALL!

144k is a symbolic number of the Body of Christ

 

[David in NJ]

REv 7:9,10 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

It is kind of important to read the whole Bible and talk to the Lord about all of it!

There is a "great multitude" and comes "from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues", and they are seen in heaven by John saying loudly, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb".

Now what was that question again? -

Are only 144,000 saved?​

Obviously not!!!!

The Bible explains that the 144,000 were from the "tribe of the sons of Israel:"

We read that, right?

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

So not "from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues"!!!

Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

There is the 144,000 saved from the tribe of the sons of Israel - and then there is the great multitude save from "from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues" thanks to God giving the world His only begotten Son!!


The thing that really gets my attention from these passage is that if only 144,000 are save from the tribe of the sons of Israel, and though they might not have been a high percent of the worlds population they were certainly a lot more than 144,000, what percent of the rest of the world makes up the great multitude??? It might be a great multitude, but it might also be that great multitude is only a very small percent of the population of people that at one time lived in the flesh on this planet!

He said His sheep hear His voice, and we know that those from the tribe of Israel who wrote the Bible hear His voice, and that hearing by faith was counted as righteousness to those like Abram (Gen 15). So are we actually seeking Him and listening to His voice, by faith?? As for me, I was told I am not part of the 144,000, but I was told I was part of the great multitude. I believe Him.

He even gave me a vision, like in a movie, where there were sooo many people in white robes that all you could see were people in white robes. Then it came in closer and closer and there in the midst of that was me, and with my hands raised in praise. That was interesting, but I am one to usually raise my hands at church, but sometimes depending on the service and Christian church I am at. My hope is that it is exactly like I saw and heard from Him, my Lord.

If you come to know Him, He starts giving you understanding of the Bible. Not that everyone has that understanding.

144k is a symbolic number of the Body of Christ

 

[RR144]

144k is a symbolic number of the Body of Christ

Then I guess all the numbers in Revelation are symbolic, right?

RR

 

[David in NJ]

Then I guess all the numbers in Revelation are symbolic, right?

RR

Let us apply your logic = Jesus spoke in parables which must mean everything He said is a parable, right?

 

[David in NJ]

Then I guess all the numbers in Revelation are symbolic, right?

RR

Peace and Good Nite RR

 

[Taken]

Parable-

noun​

1. A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson.
2. A comparison; similitude.
3. Specifically An allegorical relation or representation from which a moral is drawn for instruction; an apologue

Jesus- TRUTH

Conclusion-
Every word Jesus spoke IS Truth.

The style a story is called: ie. Bedtime story, Fable story, Joke story, Moral story, Rhyming story, Lesson story, Memorial story,
Parable story, etc. All Irrelevant WHEN the Speaker is Identified IS Jesus, who IS Truth.

The 144,000 Are God Elect.
(Elect simply means Chosen.)
MANY are called, FEW are chosen.
Many and Few are subjective, without identifying a specific Number.

144,000 are identified as 12,000 virgins of the 12 Tribes of ISRAEL.
They are revealed having been elected/Chosen for a specific holy Purpose/Task of Service Unto The Lord God.

Their Purpose/Task is To Teach the Tribes of ISRAEL the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

When?
When the Tribes of ISRAEL in JERUSALEM are directed to Gather on Mt ZION (Sion).

Why?
1) Shortly After the last Apostle died, the Gospel of Jesus Christ Stopped being taught BY Jews, IN Synagogues.
2) Dilemma-
Once The Belief IN Jesus was revealed AS required FOR Salvation…And Gods Chosen People (HEBREWS, Tribes of ISRAEL), were no longer THE TEACHERS, they also forfeited being THE STUDENTS.
3) Dilemma- God PROMISED to Save All of ISRAEL Faithful to God.
4) Solution-
During the end of days Tribulations…
God sends A Lamb, with 144,000 Tribesmen Teachers, To Teach The Tribesmen of ISRAEL, who have been Directed to gather on Mt ZION, and Hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ FROM their own Kinsmen.

And Tribesmen WHO Hear and Choose to BELIEVE IN Jesus …What shall become of Them?

* their body killed for believing IN Jesus.​

* their soul saved.​

* their quickened body raised up “BY GOD”, during GOD’S First resurrection; after the millennial reign of Christ.​

(1 Thes 4:14)

Yes, the 144,000 are Gods ELECT. However Gods ELECT is not LIMITED to “only” 144,000.
Every individual God has and will choose for a specific Service unto God, IS Gods ELECT.
Every individual WHO “elects God” becomes Gods “ELECT”.
Examples of Gods ELECT are revealed by name, written IN Scripture ie. Adam, Samuel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Noah, Moses, John, Saul, Paul, Peter, Mary….on an on….and YOU who believes IN your heart…ALL included as Gods Elect….BECAUSE:

1)
1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
(God Raises up)

2)
John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
(Christ Raises up)

Wisdom-
Gods word, intent, purpose, Order and Way.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[David in NJ]

Parable-

noun​

1. A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson.
2. A comparison; similitude.
3. Specifically An allegorical relation or representation from which a moral is drawn for instruction; an apologue

Jesus- TRUTH

Conclusion-
Every word Jesus spoke IS Truth.

The style a story is called: ie. Bedtime story, Fable story, Joke story, Moral story, Rhyming story, Lesson story, Memorial story,
Parable story, etc. All Irrelevant WHEN the Speaker is Identified IS Jesus, who IS Truth.

The 144,000 Are God Elect.
(Elect simply means Chosen.)
MANY are called, FEW are chosen.
Many and Few are subjective, without identifying a specific Number.

144,000 are identified as 12,000 virgins of the 12 Tribes of ISRAEL.
They are revealed having been elected/Chosen for a specific holy Purpose/Task of Service Unto The Lord God.

Their Purpose/Task is To Teach the Tribes of ISRAEL the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

When?
When the Tribes of ISRAEL in JERUSALEM are directed to Gather on Mt ZION (Sion).

Why?
1) Shortly After the last Apostle died, the Gospel of Jesus Christ Stopped being taught BY Jews, IN Synagogues.
2) Dilemma-
Once The Belief IN Jesus was revealed AS required FOR Salvation…And Gods Chosen People (HEBREWS, Tribes of ISRAEL), were no longer THE TEACHERS, they also forfeited being THE STUDENTS.
3) Dilemma- God PROMISED to Save All of ISRAEL Faithful to God.
4) Solution-
During the end of days Tribulations…
God sends A Lamb, with 144,000 Tribesmen Teachers, To Teach The Tribesmen of ISRAEL, who have been Directed to gather on Mt ZION, and Hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ FROM their own Kinsmen.

And Tribesmen WHO Hear and Choose to BELIEVE IN Jesus …What shall become of Them?

* their body killed for believing IN Jesus.​

* their soul saved.​

* their quickened body raised up “BY GOD”, during GOD’S First resurrection; after the millennial reign of Christ.​

(1 Thes 4:14)

Yes, the 144,000 are Gods ELECT. However Gods ELECT is not LIMITED to “only” 144,000.
Every individual God has and will choose for a specific Service unto God, IS Gods ELECT.
Every individual WHO “elects God” becomes Gods “ELECT”.
Examples of Gods ELECT are revealed by name, written IN Scripture ie. Adam, Samuel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Noah, Moses, John, Saul, Paul, Peter, Mary….on an on….and YOU who believes IN your heart…ALL included as Gods Elect….BECAUSE:

1)
1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
(God Raises up)

2)
John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
(Christ Raises up)

Wisdom-
Gods word, intent, purpose, Order and Way.

Glory to God,
Taken

IMHO - Consider and dwell on the available consummate Scripture that the 144,000 is a symbolic Truth that speaks of His Body.

Peace and Good Morning Brother

 

[Taken]

IMHO - Consider and dwell on the available consummate Scripture that the 144,000 is a symbolic Truth that speaks of His Body.

Peace and Good Morning Brother

The 144,000 are an Elect specific number of specific men who have a specific task/purpose.

Gods ELECT (from ancient days/ Hebrews, Tribes of Israel, Jews) ALL had specific Tasks/ Service unto God.
First TEACH their own (Gods Order and Way)
Thereafter TEACH the world (Gentiles).

They failed.
Jews do not teach Gentiles.
Gentiles do not teach Jews.

Their “teaching” and “praising” Buildings (Synagogues and Churches) teach different things.

God SHALL save His Godly Faithful ISRAEL…
By, through, of Gods WAY to sent ISRAEL teachers (12,000) from each of the 12 Tribes…..that they be taught, be without excuse, to accept or reject teaching from their own kinsmen, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

THEY don’t become IN Christ….(because they IN Christ have been risen up from the face of the earth)….during the Trib, they who Choose to believe become IN Jesus.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Why 144k male virgins?
First read Romans 11 and you will see that leading up to the Great Tribulation, before massive numbers in population are killed, a remnant of Jews will be saved and protected during this time - but not resurrected. The multitude that no one could number (many billions) is resurrected prior the sealing of the 144k (who are with the Lord at His return and follow Him wherever He goes _ on earth.)
We have to assume that it takes time for these souls to be sealed as it did each one of us. The Church is already sealed and is snatched up ( resurrected) in a twinkling of an eye when the sealing beginnings.
Revelation 7 is a parenthetical citation, not part of the order of events. It has to be. Why? Because four angels are ordered to seal these 144k before harm comes to the earth, yet in the prior chapter, the seals cause devastation, famine, death and a massive worldwide earthquake that levels mountains. So somewhere during or prior to the beginnings of the seal events and certainly before the devastation accumulates, the 144k are sealed and the multitude are resurrected. These two visions in Revelation are just two vantage points. John looks and sees different vantage points, events that accumulate and overlap. Revelation has several of these parenthetical sections that are not in any time sequence. Rev. 12 (another one), goes back to the birth of Christ. So we are shown Seals and Trumpets and Bowls individually but it doesn't mean that much of it isn't happening simultaneously. I think the trumpets are blown rapidly and seals poured rapidly as well and that happens when the 7th Seal is opened which reveals what's in the scroll. Really, how long does it take for Jesus to break open seven seals before He opens the scroll? Does He open one and wait a couple months? Doubt it, but maybe? 42 months ÷ 21 = 2 ???
So why 144k virgin males? Likely there are as many female virgins as well in the waiting. What?
The following is conjecture on my part! During the Millennial Kingdom, life will flourish, babies will be born and so these Jewish virgins who persevered and were protected through the GT, will repopulate the Jewish nation. There will still exist nations of the world as we read that nations will annually come to Jerusalem to pay homage and worship the Lord Jesus reigning there on His throne. Evidently there will be those left behind after the rapture, survivors who did not take the mark of the Beast and became believers in all nations and they will repopulated those nations.

 

[Jack]

Dear RR144,
I certainly agree that Christ is the Savior of the world; meaning that Christ will save 100% of mankind.

Satan LOVES that doctrine! He want's our company in Hell "forever and ever".

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Taken]

IMHO - Consider and dwell on the available consummate Scripture that the 144,000 is a symbolic Truth that speaks of His Body.

Peace and Good Morning Brother

Good morning. Brisk here and much to do outside.

I look at every word Jesus spoke as TRUTH, period.

Jesus entertained thousands that gathered to hear Him speak….
Some men hung on every word Jesus spoke as absolute Truth, and continued listening.
Some men were convinced Jesus was simply a story teller, and walked away.

Scripture reveals Jesus WOULD speak and teaching in the Style of Parables.
A Parable is common knowledge it is a made up story to reveal A TRUTH…
The difference is considering the SPEAKER who CAN NOT Lie, SHOULD give one pause to understand every word He speaks, regardless of His “style” of speech, IS absolute TRUTH.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[David in NJ]

Good morning. Brisk here and much to do outside.

I look at every word Jesus spoke as TRUTH, period.

Jesus entertained thousands that gathered to hear Him speak….
Some men hung on every word Jesus spoke as absolute Truth, and continued listening.
Some men were convinced Jesus was simply a story teller, and walked away.

Scripture reveals Jesus WOULD speak and teaching in the Style of Parables.
A Parable is common knowledge it is a made up story to reveal A TRUTH…
The difference is considering the SPEAKER who CAN NOT Lie, SHOULD give one pause to understand every word He speaks, regardless of His “style” of speech, IS absolute TRUTH.

God Bless,
Taken

Are you saying that the 144k is a parable?

 

[David in NJ]

Why 144k male virgins?
Frist read Romans 11 and you will see that leading up to the Great Tribulation, before massive numbers in population are killed, a remnant of Jews will be saved and protected during this time - but not resurrected. The multitude that no one could number (many billions) is resurrected prior the sealing of the 144k on earth. They are with the Lord at His return and follow Him wherever He goes _ on earth.
We have to assume that it takes time for these souls to be sealed as it did each one of us. The Church is already sealed and is snatched up ( resurrected) in a twinkling of an eye when the sealing beginnings.
Revelation 7 is a parenthetical citation, not part of the order of events. It has to be. Why? Because four angels are ordered to seal these 144k before harm comes to the earth, yet in the prior chapter, the seals cause devastation, famine, death and a massive worldwide earthquake The levels mountains. So somewhere during or prior to the beginnings of the seal events and certainly before the devastation accumulates, the 144k are sealed and the multitude are resurrected. These two visions in Revelation are just two vantage points. John looks and sees different vantage points, events that accumulate and overlap. Revelation has several of these parenthetical sections that are not in any time sequence. Rev. 12 (another one), goes back to the birth of Christ. So we are shown Seals and Trumpets and Bowls individually but it doesn't mean that much of it isn't happening simultaneously. I think the trumpets are blown rapidly and seals poured rapidly as well and that happens when the 7th Seal is opened which reveals what's in the scroll. Really, how long does it take for Jesus to break open seven seals before He opens the scroll? Does He open one and wait a couple months? Doubt it, but maybe? 42 months ÷ 21 = 2 ???
So why 144k virgin males? Likely there are as many female virgins as well in the waiting. What?
The following is conjecture on my part! During the Millennial Kingdom, life will flourish, babies will be born and so these Jewish virgins who persevered and were protected through the GT, will repopulate the Jewish nation. There will still exist nations of the world as we read that nations will annually come to Jerusalem to pay homage and worship the Lord Jesus reigning there on His throne. Evidently there will be those left behind after the rapture, survivors who did not take the mark of the Beast and became believers in all nations and they will repopulated those nations.

You said: "Revelation 7 is a parenthetical citation, not part of the order of events. It has to be. Why?"

You ask "Why?"

Answer = Because anything goes when you believe in something God never spoke - 'pre-trib rapture'.

 

[Taken]

Are you saying that the 144k is a parable?

I am saying Jesus opened His mouth in parables, teaching Truths that had been kept secret.

I am aware MEN have concluded a specific number of PARABLES Jesus taught. Yet Scripture itself does not NUMBER Jesus’ teachings.

The specific 144,000 virgins reserved for a specific Service during the end of days Tribulations sent down from Heaven (being 12,000 of every tribe of Israel ) was kept secret UNTIL, God gave that knowledge to Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ gave that knowledge to a holy angel, and a holy angel gave that knowledge to John, (Rev 1:1) who recorded that knowledge in ink on paper.
And since John’s day, his writings discovered, copied and distributed throughout the world.

Matt 13:
[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You said: "Revelation 7 is a parenthetical citation, not part of the order of events. It has to be. Why?"

You ask "Why?"

Answer = Because anything goes when you believe in something God never spoke - 'pre-trib rapture'.

Wrong. I am not a Pre-Tribber. I have stated the Four Horsemen of the Apolcalypse have already left the barn in several threads.