Are Protestants "saved? "

[mjrhealth]

So Jesus said:

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

actually it is not what He said, but the devils loves using the bible to build religions and men love it. It is actually "revelation" that He will build His church, but not many desire it prefer to follow after men.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I understand that you don't believe that we are justified by works as well as faith. But God says we are.

James 2: 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

I'm going with His opinion. Why don't you make one last post, denying what He says, and then let it go?

yawn,

This discussion is getting boring

Your stuck on one verse. even though you have been shown multiple verses which show you otherwise.

I will stick to those multiple verses. And interpret your verse the way it should be interpreted

Good luck earning your way to heaven.

I pray if you never repent, when you stand in front of God. you are not reminded of our conversation.

 

[Brakelite]

KJV Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
KJV Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

KJV Matthew 12
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
KJV Acts 13
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

KJV Romans 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

KJV James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The apparent contradictions spread throughout the above scriptures seem to refute every argument in the entire thread.
That finely tuned balance between faith, works, and obedience escapes most people.

 

[Yehren]

The apparent contradictions spread throughout the above scriptures seem to refute every argument in the entire thread.
That finely tuned balance between faith, works, and obedience escapes most people.

I think you've got it right. It's the only way to reconcile those apparent contradictions.

But Jesus gave us a theology-free map to salvation. Just do the will of the Father.

 

[FollowHim]

KJV Romans 2
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
KJV Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

KJV Matthew 12
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
KJV Acts 13
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

KJV Romans 3
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

KJV James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The apparent contradictions spread throughout the above scriptures seem to refute every argument in the entire thread.
That finely tuned balance between faith, works, and obedience escapes most people.

We are cleansed and worthy in Christ because we are His and walk His way.

A lifestyle reflects the reality within, though a lifestyle does not create the reality.

It is like the promises are applied in the present for those who abide in the reality not those who once did but no longer.

Confusion is created when a principle that rules is put lower than a focused discussion. So guilt over not doing something is raised to sin, while loving and serving is optional. Loving and serving is our calling, and obvious need we will respond to, because we are slaves to righteousness.

If one can find one flaw 24/7 in one's behaviour there is no point following Jesus. But these fools do not love Jesus or know love, because if they did their hearts would shout I will follow despite my struggles because this way is life and heaven, while the world is death and folly.

 

[FollowHim]

The good Samaritan is Jesus's example of following Him.
He is a man of action driven from a pure heart.

Sadly only the pure in heart see this, because impurity destroys our spiritual reality.

Am I loved, no, but do I need to love first, yes. Recognising Jesus order of interaction, we know our path. We know what love is because He first loved us. Amen

 

[mailmandan]

yawn,

This discussion is getting boring

Your stuck on one verse. even though you have been shown multiple verses which show you otherwise.

I will stick to those multiple verses. And interpret your verse the way it should be interpreted

Good luck earning your way to heaven.

I pray if you never repent, when you stand in front of God. you are not reminded of our conversation.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). We need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching on conclusion on doctrine. Works-salvationists prefer to build their doctrine on isolated pet verses and do not properly harmonize scripture with scripture.

 

[Joseph77]

Harmony. So lacking.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). We need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching on conclusion on doctrine. Works-salvationists prefer to build their doctrine on isolated pet verses and do not properly harmonize scripture with scripture.

to some people it is more important to hold to their belief and push a passage which they think proves their believe, then try to harmonize scripture, which would have to cause them to question their belief.

 

[Joseph77]

to some people it is more important to hold to their belief and push a passage which they think proves their believe, then try to harmonize scripture, which would have to cause them to question their belief.

Most all people, though not all,

do continually , consiously or unwittingly, TRY to harmonize what they have been taught, and what they do every day, with Scripture.

And they DO that daily, and they DO harmonize what they have been taught, and what they do every day, with Scripture, in their thoughts and minds and hearts.

They do NOT question their (own) belief. Instead, they strengthen it, and are strengthened in it, by more errors from others and with others.

 

[Yehren]

The good Samaritan is Jesus's example of following Him.
He is a man of action driven from a pure heart.

Sadly only the pure in heart see this, because impurity destroys our spiritual reality.

Am I loved, no, but do I need to love first, yes. Recognising Jesus order of interaction, we know our path. We know what love is because He first loved us. Amen

Exactly. None of us are truly pure, but while some strive toward perfection, some others don't know which way that is. They are the rule-followers, the theologians of intellectual assent.

But that is not what God wants of us. All he wants is for us to love. Love Him and love our neighbors. Simple, but difficult, being the selfish creatures that we are.

 

[Yehren]

We need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching on conclusion on doctrine. Faith-only salvationists prefer to build their doctrine on isolated pet verses and do not properly harmonize scripture with scripture.

Cafeteria Christians pick the scripture they like and reject the scripture that displeases them. (Or try to parse it out to remove the plain meaning.)

Theology won't save you. A loving heart toward God and man will save you. From that, works and faith will come. And they will justify you, as God says.

 

[Joseph77]

FollowHim said: ↑

The good Samaritan is Jesus's example of following Him.
He is a man of action driven from a pure heart.

Sadly only the pure in heart see this, because impurity destroys our spiritual reality.

Am I loved, no, but do I need to love first, yes. Recognising Jesus order of interaction, we know our path. We know what love is because He first loved us. Amen​

Exactly. None of us are truly pure,///
=======================================================================
End quote.
You quoted an example of someone Jesus says is truly pure,

so why not be pure as Jesus says , as His followers are, constantly also "purifying themselves as He is pure" as Scripture repeats....

 

[Joseph77]

Cafeteria Christians pick the scripture they like and reject the scripture that displeases them. (Or try to parse it out to remove the plain meaning.)

So?

Don't do that , whatever displeases God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching on conclusion on doctrine. Faith-only salvationists prefer to build their doctrine on isolated pet verses and do not properly harmonize scripture with scripture.

Cafeteria Christians pick the scripture they like and reject the scripture that displeases them. (Or try to parse it out to remove the plain meaning.)

Theology won't save you. A loving heart toward God and man will save you. From that, works and faith will come. And they will justify you, as God says.

says the one who prefers to build his doctrine on one passage in James which is taken out of context. While ignoring the rest of the passages which show otherwise.

Your have been shown, and you refuse to acknowledge the verses which PROVE that justification is by faith alone. But our works PROVE that our justification we recieved was not in vein and was justified. As James was showing

Paul said, NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DOND

What are works of righteousness? Of course. they or morally good deeds, you know. like water baptism. Praying, Going to church, Serving God. etc etc.

paul said NON OF THESE had any part in our salvation

We were saved by Gods mercy

You need mercy because you can not pay the debt,

Not because you you can pay your debt, If you can pay it wiht your good works. then you do not need mercy,,

if only you could comprehend what this means.

 

[Joseph77]

"Romans 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

God's Righteous Judgment

2 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

"He will render to each one according to his works: 7

to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8

but for those who are self-seeking[a] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10

but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. "

 

[Yehren]

Your have been shown, and you refuse to acknowledge the verses which PROVE that justification is by faith alone.

In fact, not one of your passages says that one is justified by faith alone. And as you have tried to ignore, God says that we are justified by works and faith. We understand why you don't want to believe it; Luther himself wanted to remove James from the Bible, correctly arguing that it contradicted his new doctrine of "faith alone."

Luther was being honest about it.

And you're getting boring about it, trotting out the same old revisions of James 2; all your excuses and revisions are powerless against God's word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In fact, not one of your passages says that one is justified by faith alone. And as you have tried to ignore, God says that we are justified by works and faith. We understand why you don't want to believe it; Luther himself wanted to remove James from the Bible, correctly arguing that it contradicted his new doctrine of "faith alone."

Luther was being honest about it.

And you're getting boring about it, trotting out the same old revisions of James 2; all your excuses and revisions are powerless against God's word.

yet I just proved it with the passage in titus

And notice how every time I give you a passage, and show you what it says, you completely ignore it. And never even talk about it or attempt to prove what I said in the passage is wrong

Its on you bud.

God said we are justified by faith, I understand what you do not want to believe it, You want a part in saving yourself. Well news flash. if you want to hand God a tainted glass of water as payment for your sins, feel free.

Me, I will let God cleanse the water Then offer him that water for my sins..

 

[FollowHim]

FollowHim said: ↑

The good Samaritan is Jesus's example of following Him.
He is a man of action driven from a pure heart.

Sadly only the pure in heart see this, because impurity destroys our spiritual reality.

Am I loved, no, but do I need to love first, yes. Recognising Jesus order of interaction, we know our path. We know what love is because He first loved us. Amen​

Exactly. None of us are truly pure,///
=======================================================================
End quote.
You quoted an example of someone Jesus says is truly pure,

so why not be pure as Jesus says , as His followers are, constantly also "purifying themselves as He is pure" as Scripture repeats....

Faith is the belief Jesus can bring about purity in our lives. As we walk we are changed. So using our current position as our benchmark is to disbelieve in the journey and our destination.

Those who give up the path will never arrive by definition.
The mystery of the cross and forgiveness is this process of transformation. I have spoken with believers who claim the path is irrelevant, because they have already arrived, which they mean promised heaven while being as they are, without any commitment or need to become like Jesus. It is like Jesus is crack cocaine, makes you feel empowered while actually your life is falling apart.

And these gentle folk want to destroy us, those who believe Jesus came to show us the way and empower us to walk it. It does not occur to them they speak against the gospel and the power of the cross.

God bless you

 

[Marymog]

No, I can see your interpretation is unsustainable

You assume its your church. That assumption is based on what you have been taught, Not what reality says. You follow them because of what they tell you. Just like the jews followed their leaders because they told them to.
The bible tells us who to be treated as a tax collector and pagan

And jesus told us, because of his faith, the tax collector went home justified

where the religious leader of the church of Israel went home condemned

I pray you become like the tax collector. and stop following the church of rome.

I follow “them” you follow you.