Are Protestants "saved? "

[Taken]

Hi marks. I read Renniks' questions to be of the rhetorical variety, with him making the point that if sinless perfection is obtained when people accept Christ as their Saviour Paul and the other NT writers where unaware of it since they sought to address faults, failings, and falsehoods among those in the body of Christ.

I have encountered Christians who have tried to convince me that they became perfect when they accepted Christ. One couple in particular presented me with a written dissertation of the doctrine of sinless perfection that they wanted me to endorse, but when I challenged them on a number of issues, like Christian leaders who become adulterers, and Christians who lack compassion, they had no answers. Also, it was ironic they accused me of being in error for not believing I had been made sinless and perfect in this life when I accepted Christ as my Saviour.

I must add that I do believe when I confess and repent of sin the blood of Jesus cleanses me and I am sanctified entirely, but this does not guarantee I will not sin in some way in the future, although that is to be aimed for.

No human is sinless.
While the Converted are accounted a new creature...<--- that is Gods record we can trust, as He knows all things and His Word is True...

And on His Word we are Sanctified (set apart) and Justified to be RAISED in a glorified immortal body...Human eyes can not imagine or see such a body....

It is to our and Gods advantage for the crucified to not all yet physically die...

Our advantage is enjoying what's left on this earth of Gods beauty.
Gods advantage is Believers teaching the next generation.

However...we have a Glorified Living body to take up temporary residence within...the offering of Jesus' risen and living body.

So do we have a dead and living body presently...? When Considering the natural And supernatural...yes, we presently have both a dead and living body...
Which was the very thing that Paul taught he and other men would struggle with...trying to be perfectly "SINLESS", while draped in this corrupt, sinful, living flesh.

No one is sinless...but Glory and Thanks Be to God our sins are forgiven, and He has freed us from ever again committing sin.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Renniks]

[

ah, where? ty

hmm, you think? Seems to me like that would violate that they may be one as we are one
and a few others, come to think of it

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


John 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[Taken]

I must add that I do believe when I confess and repent of sin the blood of Jesus cleanses me and I am sanctified entirely, but this does not guarantee I will not sin in some way in the future, although that is to be aimed for.

Curious...

Have heard people claim...they are:
Converted, sanctified, saved, born Again, have the indwelling spirit of God, free from sin....

Yet also they can still commit sin...

IYO Examples of sins that such a person could commit?


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

[

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


John 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

pistis, pistis so wadr not a "believes" to be found anywhere

and, all who have faith shall not perish, "in Him" has been added, John 3:16 Lexicon: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
wherein have faith has also been scribed into "believes"

and how is that saying that we can never be perfect, as I am perfect anyway?
know where you learned that yack from? bc i do, no offense
and imo they are full of crap there too no offense

 

[Renniks]

pistis, pistis so wadr not a "believes" to be found anywhere

and, all who have faith shall not perish, "in Him" has been added, John 3:16 Lexicon: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
and how is that saying that we can never be perfect, as I am perfect anyway?
know where you learned that yack from? bc i do, no offense
and imo they are full of crap there too no offense

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon



Strong's Number: 4102 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pistiß from (3982)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pistis 6:174,849
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pis'-tis Noun Feminine
Definition

1. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
   1. relating to God
      1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
   2. relating to Christ
      1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
   3. the religious beliefs of Christians
   4. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
2. fidelity, faithfulness
   1. the character of one who can be relied on.

 

[Renniks]

know where you learned that yack from? bc i do, no offense

I learned it from reading the Bible.

 

[marks]

Hi marks. I read Renniks' questions to be of the rhetorical variety, with him making the point that if sinless perfection is obtained when people accept Christ as their Saviour Paul and the other NT writers where unaware of it since they sought to address faults, failings, and falsehoods among those in the body of Christ.

I have encountered Christians who have tried to convince me that they became perfect when they accepted Christ. One couple in particular presented me with a written dissertation of the doctrine of sinless perfection that they wanted me to endorse, but when I challenged them on a number of issues, like Christian leaders who become adulterers, and Christians who lack compassion, they had no answers. Also, it was ironic they accused me of being in error for not believing I had been made sinless and perfect in this life when I accepted Christ as my Saviour.

I must add that I do believe when I confess and repent of sin the blood of Jesus cleanses me and I am sanctified entirely, but this does not guarantee I will not sin in some way in the future, although that is to be aimed for.

Thank you!

 

[Episkopos]

I read Renniks' questions to be of the rhetorical variety, with him making the point that if sinless perfection is obtained when people accept Christ as their Saviour Paul and the other NT writers where unaware of it since they sought to address faults, failings, and falsehoods among those in the body of Christ.

I have encountered Christians who have tried to convince me that they became perfect when they accepted Christ. One couple in particular presented me with a written dissertation of the doctrine of sinless perfection that they wanted me to endorse, but when I challenged them on a number of issues, like Christian leaders who become adulterers, and Christians who lack compassion, they had no answers. Also, it was ironic they accused me of being in error for not believing I had been made sinless and perfect in this life when I accepted Christ as my Saviour.

I must add that I do believe when I confess and repent of sin the blood of Jesus cleanses me and I am sanctified entirely, but this does not guarantee I will not sin in some way in the future, although that is to be aimed for.

People will always try adding themselves into the biblical narrative dishonestly. We see that so much that this has become the main way of becoming a Christian in today's church.

In Christ we do take on the perfected life of Jesus. But then the question remains how do we enter into Christ. The bible standard is so high that we tend to reduce it to something we are already experiencing...thus turning the truth into a lie.

But all the things described in the bible exist. Just that we have not yet experienced them yet in Spirit and truth so often.

So instead of people claiming to already have everything in themselves...it is far wiser and more accurate to see these things as existing beyond us, around us and among us so that we might seek to enter into them.

It is the flesh in people that wants the instant gratification. It is the way of these errant times.

 

[bbyrd009]

I learned it from reading the Bible.

so, what you are doing is worming basically, truncating the relevant v to insert your own opinion, see, bc no you did not learn that from reading Scripture. You make Jesus into a liar is what you are doing, at that and several other vv, that they may be one as we are one, even greater things will you do, on and on.

So no offense, you may have learned that from Some Guy who signed Contracts for Jesus reading that for you, i might agree to that, but wadr a simple observation of our attitude toward little children would clear up our standing with Yah in the time it takes to read this sentence?

and bam Quote some relevant Scripture if you feel led here, ok, all i have is an opinion, i do not know the truth myself and would likely run screaming from it if i did, too

Why does Christ have to intercede for us if we are capable of perfection?

Be not perfect, as I am perfect
?

wadr bc the wrong def of "intercede" imo, after all we are called to pick up a cross too right
I said "you are elohim"
.
dont we "intercede" for little kids?
So no offense meant here, ok, but Christ has to intercede for you bc you believe that Yah needed a sacrifice to make you acceptable to Him, and worse yet you tell others this as if it were truth

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon



Strong's Number: 4102 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
pistiß from (3982)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pistis 6:174,849
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pis'-tis Noun Feminine
Definition

1. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
   1. relating to God
      1. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
   2. relating to Christ
      1. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
   3. the religious beliefs of Christians
   4. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
2. fidelity, faithfulness
   1. the character of one who can be relied on.

even a corrupted Strong's will, reluctantly, provide one the five diff roots for "belief" should one ever decide to seek for them, ok? Meanwhile you may certainly interpret pistis as "belief, believe" until the day you die, if you like

 

[bbyrd009]

No human is

While the Converted are

that is

And on His Word we are

Human eyes can not

It is

and no offense meant Taken, i am just discovering that it is better for me to ignore those speaking unreservedly in satans dialect such as you do, particularly when they are not even interested in finding the naive...and could not be more wrong into the bargain. Ok? So wadr if you ever discover something you dont know, i would be interested in a convo on that ok

 

[Taken]

and no offense meant Taken, i am just discovering that it is better for me to ignore those speaking unreservedly in satans dialect such as you do, particularly when they are not even interested in finding the naive...and could not be more wrong into the bargain. Ok? So wadr if you ever discover something you dont know, i would be interested in a convo on that ok

No offense byrd, when you can not detect the smallest word making a huge change in the status of a man; you probably do only see the negative of Satan WAS and not the positive of God IS.
No problem for me.
Many people like to try to mesh mystical things with miraculous things and expect someone to make the meshing prove Gods truth.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Curious...

Have heard people claim...they are:
Converted, sanctified, saved, born Again, have the indwelling spirit of God, free from sin....

Yet also they can still commit sin...

IYO Examples of sins that such a person could commit?


Glory to God,
Taken

Hi Taken. Thankyou for your question. It's a doozy as we say here, meaning impressive.

Q. What sins could a person claiming to be converted, sanctified, saved, born again, Spirit-filled and free from sin commit?
A. Any sin the world, the flesh, and the Devil causes them to commit.

There is much to be gained by studying Scriptures that deal with the world, the flesh, and the Devil. I'm not one for long posts so I'll briefly give some food for thought here rather than supply an exhaustive string of references:

Jas 1:26-27
(26) If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridles not his tongue, but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
(27) Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 4:4
(4) You adulterers and adulteresses, know you not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

Gal 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom 8:12-13
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Eph 4:26-27
(26) Be you angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
(27) Neither give place to the devil.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour:

 

[Renniks]

So no offense, you may have learned that from Some Guy who signed Contracts for Jesus reading that for you, i might agree to that, but wadr a simple observation of our attitude toward little children would clear up our standing with Yah in the time it takes to read this sentence?

The trouble is, reading this sentence is like trying to read chinese. What does wadr mean? Why do you use the term "Yah."? Can we perhaps stick to English and use actual words, so I can have some clue what you are talking about?

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken. Thankyou for your question. It's a doozy as we say here, meaning impressive.

Q. What sins could a person claiming to be converted, sanctified, saved, born again, Spirit-filled and free from sin commit?
A. Any sin the world, the flesh, and the Devil causes them to commit.

There is much to be gained by studying Scriptures that deal with the world, the flesh, and the Devil. I'm not one for long posts so I'll briefly give some food for thought here rather than supply an exhaustive string of references:

Jas 1:26-27
(26) If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridles not his tongue, but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
(27) Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 4:4
(4) You adulterers and adulteresses, know you not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

Gal 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom 8:12-13
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Eph 4:26-27
(26) Be you angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
(27) Neither give place to the devil.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour:

Thanks.
I consider Jesus came to Seek the Lost Jews.. and Jesus chose Jews as His Disciples, th Hear, learn, become Apostletic Teachers to continue Seeking Lost Jews.

All Jews practicing or swaying had been and were UNDER Mosaic:Jewish Law...Mant memberrs of the Templeand Synagogues...

The Apostles were sent out to Teach the Jews of Their Christ Messiah was Jesus...and teaching of a new Formation, Called Christ's Church...

The Apostles were teaching Jews still Under "Their Religiuos LAW".

Hundred of things in their Laws were SINS...
Pretty much EVERY thing a man did that was not according TO the Law, was a Sin.
So when Jesus and later the Apostles are Teaching the Jews...at the beginning to mid of the New Testament...Jews were still being Respectiful of consideration of Laws they had had for 400 years and trying to figure out How this change from strict obedience to The old Respected Laws and how this New teaching was going to play out.

No viable mention of Gentiles, and WHO was going to Seek them out and teach them What? The OLD Testament Laws of the Jews didn't apply to you and still doesn't?
Gentile's for the most part neither believed in the Lewis's God or knew of some Messiah of God...WE KNOW who got that difficult commission...
But...on Point, what was a Gentiles Sin?
Disbelief in God and His Son?

And what else??

What about Trespasses? What are they and are they a sin?
If under the Law, Trespasses were a sin, man against man (and his possessions).
NOT UNDER the Law, a Trespass means the same thing, but is not a sin. Because...
A Sin is Against God, and forgiven by God.
Trespasses are man Against man, and to be Forgiven man to man...Consequences...to make right the Trespass...or suffer the consequences (which are endless)...disgrace, ruined reputation, jail, divorce, loss of job, etc.
Scripture expressly teaches, forgive a man his Trespass, and the Lord will forgive yours...a caveat...no Asking involved between the man and God.

So what about the OT for Gentile's ? Learning ABOUT God...Beginning of the world, mankind...and the ALL important PRECEPTS of Gods WAY ...of How men should treat men for the most harmonious outcome....and until a man masters that...the teaching on Trespasses and what to do about them will be beneficial.
First seeking the Lost Jews...
we then find the Jewish Apostles being sent TO the Lost Tribes of Israel...here They are among Strangers..." Jews who have blended with Gentiles, customs and gods ".
More difficult...teaching Jews who have passed through Generations Of Gentile Ways.

But still the point...what is a Gentiles Sin?
Again Disbelief.
So when a Gentile comes into heartfelt belief and confesses the same and The Lord God Converts the man, the man receives the SEED of God, is a new creature with the indwelling Spirit...
What Sin can that man Commit?
None. He will once be made Converted and Forever Be Kept Converted by the supreme Power of God.
He is free From sin and can Sin (reject the Lord God), NO More. 1 John 3: 9...
But this is not typically taught...and why not?
IMO because men are taught they are not under the Law, but teach AS IF men ARE under the Law.

(And this is not to be construed to mean "SINLESS". We still have these Body's of sin...SUBJECT TO blood Death, waiting to be RAISED in glory and immortality.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

What's it like to be like Christ?

Jesus came to Earth in the "Likeness" of men, looked like a human man, was called a man....and human men Now declare Christ WAS a human man...even making the Whole of Him reduced to a 200% math equation.

Christ is Spirit, having taken upon Himself a body Prepared of God, in the Likeness appearance of a man, doing things men do, but without Sin.

Christ Jesus taught and by visible example showed men How men could be LIKE Him (the likeness appearance comes later)...but the Like Christ Jesus can be Now for any man who accepts Christ Jesus' Offer to me MADE Converted, wholly WHOLE...without committing Sin, with their Whole mind, soul, spirit in harmony in thought and deed, Like his Wholeness.

If you have that, then you know what it like to be like Christ...

And BTW it is easy breezy, when one is surrounded by people that all think and believe the same and that they love the people and the people love them.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

No offense byrd, when you can not detect the smallest word making a huge change in the status of a man; you probably do only see the negative of Satan WAS and not the positive of God IS.
No problem for me.
Many people like to try to mesh mystical things with miraculous things and expect someone to make the meshing prove Gods truth.

Hey man whatever deflection works for you works for me at this point OK, I don’t even blame you

 

[bbyrd009]

What does wadr mean?

google can help with those, chrome will actually say them for you, or you can just ignore them, they are not pertinent, but wadr means "with all due respect"

Why do you use the term "Yah."?

well, i am a Yahwist, of a sort anyway, and i guess mostly to make ppl reflect upon why they use the term "God," Also bc "God" is the term used by our present-day Romans

Can we perhaps stick to English and use actual words, so I can have some clue what you are talking about?

"Yah" you are already fam with, the acronyms are irrelevant, and Contracts for Jesus are 501c3s. Fwiw i lose the flow when i stop to correct my diction, but i will do my best ok, my apologies

 

[Stumpmaster]

So when a Gentile comes into heartfelt belief and confesses the same and The Lord God Converts the man, the man receives the SEED of God, is a new creature with the indwelling Spirit...
What Sin can that man Commit?
None. He will once be made Converted and Forever Be Kept Converted by the supreme Power of God.
He is free From sin and can Sin (reject the Lord God), NO More. 1 John 3: 9...

The way I look at it, Taken, is that the Holy Spirit will never influence anyone to sin, and so if a Christian, be they a Jew of the good olive tree root or a Gentile grafted into the good olive tree root, does sin in some way it is certainly not their regenerate self that is responsible for the sin but a contrary lapse into the conduct of their old man.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Eph 4:22-24
(22) That you put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
(23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
(24) And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Rom 7:14-25
(14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
(16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
(17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
(18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
(19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
(20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
(21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
(22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Taken]

The way I look at it, Taken, is that the Holy Spirit will never influence anyone to sin, and so if a Christian, be they a Jew of the good olive tree root or a Gentile grafted into the good olive tree root, does sin in some way it is certainly not their regenerate self

Agree.
Gods Division, began in the OT.
Those who commit to God from those who did Not commit.

Gen 10:
[5] By these were the isles of the Gentiles
divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
Gen 10
[25] And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided;
Ex 8[23] And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.
Ex 19
[8] And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

NT, continued with Jesus' Division.
And All having Offering to Commit or Not.

Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
John 6
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Heb 10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Rom 2
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Col 3
[11] Where there is neither Greek nor Jew,circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

That Divided...people/land/
And Joining...people/kingdom on earth/ whole Earth

that is responsible for the sin but a contrary lapse into the conduct of their old man.

Conduct? Yes, agree. Can be a struggle for a man, with a STILL alive MIND, to Always allow the Thoughts in his new spirit, in his new circumcised heart, to Supersede the thoughts of his Mind....
In matters/ conduct / Trespasses "Between" People.

1Jn 3:9

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Yes. Born of God people...may struggle with Mindful conduct/Trespasses "between" people...
God did NOT renew, save or change a man's Mind.
God Renews the soul, (23 Psalm), Births a new spirit (with His SEED), in man.
God is Spirit. Man receives a new spirit. The relationship between that man and God is Spiritual and Forever KEPT, by the supreme indwelling Power of God.
Man's Mind...can daily keep or release relationships and conducts and PRECEPTS between people.(and SUBJECT TO the Consequences thereof)

Eph 4:22-24
(22) That you put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
(23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
(24) And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes...YOU (the Individual), has the responsibility to continually KEEP, his MIND subjected to the thoughts of his (new) spirit, in his new (heart)...for the purpose of harmony, conduct, avoiding Trespasses "between" people.

Rom 7:14-25

(14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
(16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
(17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
(18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
(19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
(20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
(21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
(22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Yes. The struggle to KEEP the Mind subdued to the spirit in the heart.
The struggle, because our Mind is still Carnal, Logical, naturally revengeful, naturally stingy, and capable of devising and acting on wickedness.

Yes, until, we are raised up in a glorified body, our sin is still in our flesh....yet we can walk in the spirit of Christ's risen glorious body.
We struggle, with having a body of sin...
However God does Not have that "struggle"...He has Covered our body of sin, With His Light, and Remembers no more our sin. (He has already washed our body in Jesus' Blood, set us apart, SEALED us, prepared us FOR the day of His redemption.(taking).

Meantime...aside from man's conduct toward men; nothing whatsoever can cause That man, to ever again reject, not believe, commit sin Against God.

That man IS FREED from sin, and can sin no more.

Thanks for your reply and Scriptural postings.
God Bless,
Taken

 

[Stumpmaster]

That man IS FREED from sin, and can sin no more.

I have enjoyed this post of yours, Taken. Your last phrase puts me in mind of this verse.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

The yoke of Jesus is easy, but the yoke of bondage is not. It is hard work trying to achieve by human effort what God's grace has already given.

"every doctrine and ordinance of men is a yoke of bondage which should not be submitted to; nay, any action whatever, performed in a religious way and in order for a man's acceptance with God, and to obtain his favour, and according to his observance of which he judges of his state, and speaks peace and comfort to himself, or the reverse, is a yoke of bondage:"