this is like pouring water on a ducks back it rolls off.. BUT YOU have a tendency to ignore truth i perceive your eyes are dim and ears is allowing the word fall by the wayside
Are the promises in John 14:12-14 true?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Really?
Are the promises in John 14:12-14 true?
- We are promised to do greater things than Jesus did.- And whatever we ask in His name, He will do it. (sigh)
John 14:12-14 NIV
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing,
and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
quantity reach more people example day of Pentecost the fire spread.. so its not quality . we have been given power but our power is NOT the same as Christ. THAT YE MAY KNOW THE SON OF MAN ------ Matthew 9:6.. But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. we dont have that power nor can we heal the sick.. we can pray and the rest is up to the Jesus . WE BEEN ENSUED WITH POWER to spread the Gospel.
we only Plant the seed water the seed God gives the increase so the greater works than these is quantity not quality
lol note He will do it NOT US sigh is right your not listening
Not trying to be too impersonal or blunt here, although I think you are missing the context for/at John 14:12-14.
The promise in John 14:12-14 that believers will do "greater works," like miracles, and that Yeshua will "do whatever you ask in my name" is contextually intended to refer to spiritual empowerment and the continuation of Yeshua's mission for his Father through/by the Holy Spirit, rather than the guaranteed removal of personal or family physical suffering or terminal illness, as I've read ahead already.
The spreading of the gospel in the known world of the 1st century was of monumental importance to God. For the establishment of a solid and widespread foundation for generations to come that would keep the fires of the gosple burning, even in our time
If that is correct, what are the works He was doing, the even greater things and the anything asked in His name?
John 14:12-14 NIV
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing,
and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
It's obvious that miracles, as I suggested, they were a centerpiece of bringing people to God via the gospel, as Christ performed. These things were instrumental in the revealing the gospel and Christ to others. It became more real to people.
Jesussaves150
Member
Confidence in prayer comes from asking for things aligned with God's purpose, rather than selfish desires.Jesus promised that whatever is asked in His name, he will do if it is to glorify the Father.Responses are not always a "yes." Sometimes they are "no" or "not yet," which can be a protective act, acting in the believer's best interest.Answers may come through waiting, as God uses the time to teach lessons or prepare the individual.
Sincerely saying "I surrender" is always accepted.Asking for forgiveness is never denied.Prayers focused on serving God and seeking His will over personal ambition are always good.Asking in faith believing that God is able to act, even if the result differs from expectations - seeking his will.
Jesus is not a wishing well it must align with the Fathers will which is the cause of such disappointment.
The Our Father covers all you need to pray for.
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
Have you said it today?
Sincerely saying "I surrender" is always accepted.Asking for forgiveness is never denied.Prayers focused on serving God and seeking His will over personal ambition are always good.Asking in faith believing that God is able to act, even if the result differs from expectations - seeking his will.
Jesus is not a wishing well it must align with the Fathers will which is the cause of such disappointment.
The Our Father covers all you need to pray for.
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
Have you said it today?
Last edited:
Just to be clear, I believe in miracles.
I have had many opportunities to pray for people in need. I rarely know the outcome.
But there was one instance where it was clear what happened.
An evening healing service at our church drew a number of people to the front of the church. The leader had everyone in line turn to the right and lay hands on the person in front of them.
I was at the end of the line so there was no one to pray for me.
However, the man in front of me had come in using a cane. (unusual for him) He had an injury that he wanted prayer for. He was in a lot of pain.
We were learning an interview style of praying for the sick/injured. So, I asked him questions to get a benchmark to start from.
I prayed for him and then asked him if he felt anything. He said he felt a tremendous heat on his back where I had been laying hands. I felt it too, but didn't tell him about it. I wanted to hear from him.
So, we pressed in again and kept at it. Then he reported that the pain was gone. He left the prayer line and walked around the sanctuary waving the cane in the air.
Reminded me of this. (the Apostle Peter, a mere human) And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. - Acts 3:8 NIV
The next Sunday morning the healed man testified that he had been healed by God, and he pointed to me as the one who had prayed for him.
You said "no wonder I don't trust the Bible". So, who / what are you believing in miracles? Don't know?
Vision like an eagle
I recall it was a Sunday evening service at church. We had a local guest speaker I was familiar with.
After the sermon/teaching he was praying for people at the front of the church, the altar area.
I had gone down to help. Sometimes people go down when they are overwhelmed by the Spirit.
I was there as a catcher. I stood behind those being prayed for to make sure they had
a soft landing if they went down, Worship music was playing in the background.
Everyone had been prayed for, but I remained at the front worshiping God and enjoying his presence.
The song with a lyric "on eagles wings" was playing, so I stretched out my arms and swayed like an eagle in flight.
Just then the minister stepped forward and put a hand on my forehead declaring out loud, "Vision like an eagle!"
It startled me, I didn't anticipate it. But I received what he prophesied over me with a nod and a "Yes."
Nothing unusual happened in that moment. So I went away thinking it was for another time. Indeed.
In the following weeks I began to have a recurring picture in my mind's eye.
I recognized it as a familiar street in a neighboring city. I had no idea what it meant.
But it happened several times. And then stopped.
Several weeks later I was in the downtown area of my town on my bicycle.
I finished my business and was turning around to go home when I remembered the area in the vision,
Since I wasn't far away, I thought I should ride over there and see if there was something there for me.
I rode up one side of the street looking at all the store fronts and anyone that might be there.
For some reason I was completely oblivious to what was happening right across the street. - LOL
I rode as far as I thought I needed to and decided to cross the street in the middle of the block
and go back on the other side. It was then that I noticed a woman examining the back of her car as if it was damaged.
I also noticed that she looked rather sickly. A very pale complexion. Hmm... ???
I crossed the street and went past her. At that moment God spoke to me loudly. "Go talk to that woman."
Then I also noticed the squad car at the scene of an accident that I had overlooked earlier.
As I turned my bike around, I asked God what I should say to her. My question was met with silence.
So typical for these encounters. - LOL
The woman was walking toward me so I stopped my bike. I needed to talk to her. What should I say?
As she neared I spoke up. "It looks like there was an accident here." She affirmed my comment and said she had been
hit by a car coming home from a doctor's appointment. At this point I was face to face with the woman.
She did look VERY sickly. I noticed that her hair was either falling out or growing back, not sure which.
And there were bumps on her head that looked like cancerous growths. So I asked here if she had cancer.
She conceded that she did indeed have cancer. I asked if I could pray for her. She agreed to let me do that.
I dismounted my bike and asked if I could lay a hand on her shoulder. Yes. I stumbled through an awkward prayer.
But I felt God's presence surrounding us. When I finished, she made the sign of the cross on her chest.
I assumed she was Catholic. I bid her well and left for home on my bicycle.
Tears streamed down my face as I considered what had just happened.
The logistics of this divine appointment blew my mind.
You mention God and the Bible over and over but you said you don't trust them. Which God are you referring to? Do you even have a clue?
Once the message was confirmed and the apostolic foundation laid, the need for these specific "sign gifts" to validate the truth of the gospel ceased, as the written Word now serves as the ultimate authority. Reemphasizing the fact that the 1st century gospel spread was vital to ignite and set the fires of God and his message for salvation in the known world.
The written word and the Spirit of God continues the process of keeping the fires glowing, within certain chosen believers today.
While some believers report miracles still occurring, particularly in missionary contexts where the gospel is being introduced for the first time, these are viewed as exceptions rather than the norm. The general consensus is that God may perform miracles, but they are not the standard method for evangelism today because the foundation of the faith has already been laid.
That view is Cecessionism, I hold the Continuationist view.
1 Corinthians 1:7 NIV
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
You're the one saying that. I've seen several miracles! Why would God give you miracles when you said: "no wonder I don't trust the Bible"? Don't you even read your own messages? Want me to quote more of your Bible attacks?
I do not align myself with labels like Cessationism or Continuationism regarding this topic. In fact I do like label views, period, made up in many other scriptural subjects that supposedly have multiple interpretations. People have created at least two viewpoints because they lack the understanding and faith to simply allow the scripture to remain within its proper context and true meaning.
It seems you are interpreting John 12:14-16 by broadly applying 'miracles' and 'gifts' even to the present day for your own satisfaction. This approach takes the passage out of context, as many do. There is no scripture indicating that the concentrated power of God and His spirit of truth at Pentecost in the first century continues today. Scripture does not support your perspective at all. It appears to be wishful thinking. You seem dissatisfied and disappointed with Yeshua’s intended meaning and words in this scripture passage.
Regarding this scripture, there are not two or more valid views. You, like many others, have constructed a strawman argument to present a false case that never truly existed.
If I do not understand a scripture clearly or it does not readily fit with its context and other scriptures, I meditate on it and set it aside until I gain full understanding. I try to avoid theorizing or forming a view to fit any preconceived ideas, even though that is a natural human tendency.
People have turned scripture into a game of creating at least two opposing views because they lack the knowledge and faith to let scripture stand in its own context with its only one true at least general meaning.
It was covered right away in Acts chapter two.
Acts 2:38-39 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—
for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
All the gifts are required to make up the Body of Christ.
If you start cutting off limbs you make an amputee of the Body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:27-28 NIV
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers,
then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.
This passage of scripture is quite different from your thread title of John 12. This is for rebirth and regeneration of the heart into the Kingdom, that was as active in the 1st century as it is today. And I would venture to say, in conversion figures of less percentage of the population today. God calls as his chosen ones, much less of a percentage of the world today, into his Kingdom as in the 1st century.
Similar threads
