Are the promises in John 14:12-14 true?

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
It was covered right away in Acts chapter two.

Acts 2:38-39 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—
for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

This passage of scripture is quite different from your thread title of John 12. This is for rebirth and regeneration of the heart into the Kingdom, that was as active in the 1st century as it is today. And I would venture to say, in conversion figures of less percentage of the population today. God calls as his chosen ones, much less of a percentage of the world today, into his Kingdom as in the 1st century.

Seriously?
We are on page 12 of this thread and I was replying to your post.

The promise of the Father for the last days was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off - vs 39

And again...

1 Corinthians 1:7
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

WHAT SPIRITUAL GIFTS?
Notice that the manifestations of the Spirit are given for the common good. (not evangelism)

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 NIV
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom,
to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Cessationism versus Continuationism - The fallacy of "Sign Gifts".

Cessationism claims that the miracle gifts of the Holy Spirit were signs to authenticate the early church. And consequently the miracle gifts disappeared when the Apostles did. Continuationism says that all the gifts were for the church and that all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still valid...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[JustMe]

St. SteVen said:
It was covered right away in Acts chapter two.

Acts 2:38-39 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—
for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Seriously?
We are on page 12 of this thread and I was replying to your post.

The promise of the Father for the last days was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off - vs 39

And again...

1 Corinthians 1:7
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

WHAT SPIRITUAL GIFTS?
Notice that the manifestations of the Spirit are given for the common good. (not evangelism)

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 NIV
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom,
to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Cessationism versus Continuationism - The fallacy of "Sign Gifts".

Cessationism claims that the miracle gifts of the Holy Spirit were signs to authenticate the early church. And consequently the miracle gifts disappeared when the Apostles did. Continuationism says that all the gifts were for the church and that all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still valid...

www.christianityboard.com

So what are really trying to say here, as you obviously want it to apply to your view(s) on this subject? Do I have to read between your lines and guess then...

 

[St. SteVen]

So what are really trying to say here, as you obviously want it to apply to your view(s) on this subject? Do I have to read between your lines and guess then...

As I see it, you and I disagree on a couple of points.
1) You contend that miracles are sign gifts and were only for the purpose of first century evangelism. I disagree.
2) I contend that miracles are a part of the spiritual gifts given to the church to minister to the Body of Christ and beyond. You disagree.

If I misunderstand you, please clarify, thanks.
Does this scripture apply today?

James 5:14-15 NIV
Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to
pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well;
the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

 

[Jesussaves150]

Miracles are to bring Glory to God.When our prayers are answered and it aligns with Gods will it brings Glory to God not individuals who can do nothing but pray for the miracle to happen .God ultimately decides when a miracle happens drawing people to him.

 

[JustMe]

As I see it, you and I disagree on a couple of points.
1) You contend that miracles are sign gifts and were only for the purpose of first century evangelism. I disagree.
2) I contend that miracles are a part of the spiritual gifts given to the church to minister to the Body of Christ and beyond. You disagree.

If I misunderstand you, please clarify, thanks.
Does this scripture apply today?

James 5:14-15 NIV
Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to
pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well;
the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

I believe the passage from James is relevant to us, though to a lesser degree over the centuries and today, and only to the genuine fragmented Body of Christ. Therefore, it does not hold the same intensity as when it was first applied to the foundation of the Body of Christ in the 1st century.

Over time, corruption has diminished the effectiveness of these miracles and healing gifts for any sickness within the Body of Christ; the true Body has been devastated by internal wolves, causing it to become outcasts, existing as hidden cell groups throughout the centuries and today. The true Body of Christ is not represented by the Orthodox Church today.

Additionally, since that time, individual believers praying for forgiveness of sin and healing has become the standard rather than the exception. Soon, the curtain will fall, bringing an end to this charade and the false church’s role on the current world stage.

 

[lforrest]

Sometimes God makes up his mind and there is no changing it. In this case were you informed of God's decision? It is a blessing to be told, even if by dreams that need interpretation.

God's will is mysterious from our limited perspective. But we can be certain of the end goal, it is all about the next life. What happens here is a means to an end.

 

[Taken]

The only promises for those who don't trust the Bible are Hell Fire.

Quoting You: And clarity is further confused by the definitions shell game.
Why do we need a secret decoder ring to understand the Bible?
This is Freakin' nuts. (no wonder I don't trust the Bible)

The Bible, is the source of Knowledge God Approves.

The Bible is NOT the source for “Understanding Scripture”… God is.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ezra]

St. SteVen said:
It was covered right away in Acts chapter two.

Acts 2:38-39 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—
for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Seriously?
We are on page 12 of this thread and I was replying to your post.

The promise of the Father for the last days was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off - vs 39

And again...

1 Corinthians 1:7
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

WHAT SPIRITUAL GIFTS?
Notice that the manifestations of the Spirit are given for the common good. (not evangelism)

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 NIV
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom,
to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Cessationism versus Continuationism - The fallacy of "Sign Gifts".

Cessationism claims that the miracle gifts of the Holy Spirit were signs to authenticate the early church. And consequently the miracle gifts disappeared when the Apostles did. Continuationism says that all the gifts were for the church and that all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still valid...

www.christianityboard.com

you are more into worshiping the gifts than the giver

 

[Jack]

The Bible, is the source of Knowledge God Approves.

The Bible is NOT the source for “Understanding Scripture”… God is.

Glory to God,
Taken

The Bible is God's written Word.

 

[Taken]

The Bible is God's written Word.

Yes.
Many “Hear” the Word of God.
The “Written Word”, is your source for Verification of the Knowledge you Hear.

Understanding “Gods Word”…
Comes From God, to whom HE gives HIS Understanding of HIS Word.

Prob 2:
6 For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[complete]

Are the promises in John 14:12-14 true?​

'Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on Me,
the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto My Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name,
that will I do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in My name, I will do it.'
(Joh 14:12-14)

Hello @St SteVens.

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words, so to doubt whether what is spoken is true, is to deny both the Father and the Son: for our Lord only ever spoke the words which His Father gave Him to say.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Are the promises in John 14:12-14 true?​

'Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on Me,
the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto My Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name,
that will I do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in My name, I will do it.'
(Joh 14:12-14)

Hello @St SteVen.

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words, so to doubt whether what is spoken is true, is to deny both the Father and the Son: for our Lord only ever spoke the words which His Father gave Him to say.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hello again, @St. SteVen ,

I am sure it is not your wish to be guilty of denying the Lord Jesus Christ.

This promise was made to the twelve disciples. Do you hold an expectation which is not yours to hold perhaps?

In Christ Jesus
Chris


,

 

[St. SteVen]

Hello again, @St. SteVen ,

I am sure it is not your wish to be guilty of denying the Lord Jesus Christ.

This promise was made to the twelve disciples. Do you hold an expectation which is not yours to hold perhaps?

Yes, thanks.

The second line of the verse says, "He that believeth on Me..."
No reason to limit it to the twelve disciples.

'Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on Me,
the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto My Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name,
that will I do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in My name, I will do it.'
(John 14:12-14)

 

[soberxp]

Yes, thanks.

The second line of the verse says, "He that believeth on Me..."
No reason to limit it to the twelve disciples.

'Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on Me,
the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto My Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name,
that will I do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in My name, I will do it.'
(John 14:12-14)

This is a tongue twister with strict logic.
If you believe on me.
. What is believe in Jesus Christ
.......... If you ask something not the works Jesus does,then you will not get.
...............But if you ask something that greater than the works Jesus does,then you will get what you ask.
....................And the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

[complete]

Yes, thanks.

The second line of the verse says, "He that believeth on Me..."
No reason to limit it to the twelve disciples.

'Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that believeth on Me,
the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do;
because I go unto My Father.
And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name,
that will I do,
that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in My name, I will do it.'
(John 14:12-14)

Hi St.SteVen,

It is said of the Lord Jesus, that He came unto His own (Israel), and His own received Him not. Yet as many as did receive Him to them He gave power to become sons of God (Joh_1:12-13) ' But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:' He Himself said that He was not sent but unto' the lost sheep of the hose of Israel' (Matt. 15:24): and when He sent His disciples out before Him to prepare the way, He told them to go to the house of Israel only (Matt. 10;6).

All things that we read in Scripture, is 'For' us, but not all is 'About' us. Should this not be 'rightly divided' along with all other Scripture, as we are instructed in (2 Tim. 2:15).,

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[soberxp]

Hi St.SteVen,

It is said of the Lord Jesus, that He came unto His own (Israel), and His own received Him not. Yet as many as did receive Him to them He gave power to become sons of God (Joh_1:12-13) ' But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:' He Himself said that He was not sent but unto' the lost sheep of the hose of Israel' (Matt. 15:24): and when He sent His disciples out before Him to prepare the way, He told them to go to the house of Israel only (Matt. 10;6).

All things that we read in Scripture, is 'For' us, but not all is 'About' us. Should this not be 'rightly divided' along with all other Scripture, as we are instructed in (2 Tim. 2:15).,

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

But it seems that the preparations made by Jesus Christ for Israel were not heeded by the entire House of Israel.

matthew 22:21
They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

 

[St. SteVen]

This is a tongue twister with strict logic.
If you believe on me.
. What is believe in Jesus Christ
.......... If you ask something not the works Jesus does,then you will not get.
...............But if you ask something that greater than the works Jesus does,then you will get what you ask.
....................And the Father may be glorified in the Son.

I was remembering yesterday that methodologies don't work.
We need to listen for God's direction. Even Jesus did this in His healing ministry.

John 5:19 NIV
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;
he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

 

[St. SteVen]

It is said of the Lord Jesus, that He came unto His own (Israel), and His own received Him not. Yet as many as did receive Him to them He gave power to become sons of God (Joh_1:12-13) ' But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:' He Himself said that He was not sent but unto' the lost sheep of the hose of Israel' (Matt. 15:24): and when He sent His disciples out before Him to prepare the way, He told them to go to the house of Israel only (Matt. 10;6).

Are you saying that receiving Christ is only for the Jews?

 

[Jack]

"Are the promises in John 14:12-14 true?"​

Why don't you answer your own Bible attacking question?

Is there anything in the Bible you believe is God's written Word? ANYTHING??? Why do you keep EVADING this question?