Are There People Doomed For Destruction?

[MatthewG]

What are your thoughts about the wrath of God to come upon those who said to pilate "Let his blood be on our hands", @quietthinker?

These are my thoughts on the subject my friend, and you may disagree with them, I love you either way.

Jesus did forgive them for having him put to death. However they still did not repent and continue to grow worse as the 40 years up till destruction was going to happen. God allowed them to have the choice, and their choice was a murderer over an innocent man. I do not see a problem with Gods divorcement of Israel, and taking 144,000 pure and blameless people from the 12 tribes of Israel, and allowing now with the ushering in of all people to come to the Son of God, in completion of Revelation people are still offered to come freely drink of the waters given, if they athrist. Those who desire to be wicked, John said in revelation let them still be wicked still. He also talks about how people in the heavenly realm are outside of the gate, and those who are of faith have the ability to get to enter into the gate and partake of the tree of life.

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[Lifelong_sinner]

What are your thoughts about the wrath of God to come upon those who said to pilate "Let his blood be on our hands", @quietthinker?

These are my thoughts on the subject my friend, and you may disagree with them, I love you either way.

Jesus did forgive them for having him put to death. However they still did not repent and continue to grow worse as the 40 years up till destruction was going to happen. God allowed them to have the choice, and their choice was a murderer over an innocent man. I do not see a problem with Gods divorcement of Israel, and taking 144,000 pure and blameless people from the 12 tribes of Israel, and allowing now with the ushering in of all people to come to the Son of God, in completion of Revelation people are still offered to come freely drink of the waters given, if they athrist. Those who desire to be wicked, John said in revelation let them still be wicked still. He also talks about how people in the heavenly realm are outside of the gate, and those who are of faith have the ability to get to enter into the gate and partake of the tree of life.

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nonsense. Revelation has not been completed.

 

[MatthewG]

nonsense. Revelation has not been completed.

Here lately I have been thinking about getting a Hebrew study bible, to get more in the Hebrew thought because it helps get an slightly better insights than our normal American understanding of the biblical text. It is always good to see you on the forums, and it is understandable I was under the impression that Revelation was going to happen one day however, due to my ignorance, I realized that considering all the context of Matthew, Mark, Luke - when it comes to the destruction of Jerusalem, it seemed my eyes were blinded by following others in their understanding and not considering what Jesus, and his Apostles was talking about was true to that generation then in that day, and warped it to todays time however we will all have our death day and return being resurrected given a spiritual body when we take our last breath and release the spirit from our body.

Thank you for your comment,
Love you!

 

[quietthinker]

What are your thoughts about the wrath of God to come upon those who said to pilate "Let his blood be on our hands", @quietthinker?

These are my thoughts on the subject my friend, and you may disagree with them, I love you either way.

Jesus did forgive them for having him put to death. However they still did not repent and continue to grow worse as the 40 years up till destruction was going to happen. God allowed them to have the choice, and their choice was a murderer over an innocent man. I do not see a problem with Gods divorcement of Israel, and taking 144,000 pure and blameless people from the 12 tribes of Israel, and allowing now with the ushering in of all people to come to the Son of God, in completion of Revelation people are still offered to come freely drink of the waters given, if they athrist. Those who desire to be wicked, John said in revelation let them still be wicked still. He also talks about how people in the heavenly realm are outside of the gate, and those who are of faith have the ability to get to enter into the gate and partake of the tree of life.

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Ohh Matthew, how do I answer this?

Your reference to 144000 is a different matter altogether.

I don't think God has divorced himself from anyone, Israel included. Israel on the other hand divorced herself from God......after all their privileges they killed their deliverer. Israel effectively pushed God's protection away.....a protection which through the ensuing years had kept them from being annihilated.
Now the Roman army was on their doorstep infuriated by their recalcitrance and they had no protection....by their own choice.

This desolation was voiced by Jesus in Luke 13:34-35 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’

 

[GEN2REV]

You have asked this a couple of times. How is it you don't hear my answer in my reply?

Show me, highlight, your answer, from your post in reply, so we can all see it.

You've done nothing but deflect, ramble and beat around the bush.

You've given no straight answer.

Do you choose what is widely accepted among men, tradition; or do you choose what God has said in His Word, specifically what is written in Scripture - the Truth? Which never changes - whether it be the time of the Pharisees of NT times or those of today.

 

[quietthinker]

Show me, highlight, your answer, from your post in reply, so we can all see it.

You've done nothing but deflect, ramble and beat around the bush.

You've given no straight answer.

Do you choose what is widely accepted among men, tradition; or do you choose what God has said in His Word, specifically what is written in Scripture - the Truth? Which never changes - whether it be the time of the Pharisees of NT times or those of today.

I will use an illustration G2R. Jesus told those around him including the Pharisees who he was yet most didn't hear it. The educated in particular asked him again and again and he gave them this answer....
John 8:25
“Who are you?” they asked.
“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied......'

How is it they didn't/couldn't/wouldn't hear his answer??
You might want to check the context.

 

[GEN2REV]

To me the wrath of God was poured out on the nation of Israel when Jesus had returned to get his bride, all those who put Christ to death were justifyingly punished by the Fall of Jerusalem.

Only believers would have seen the return in that day in age, some people were taken captive, and unbelievers who had not faith, died in the destruction that had fell upon them by the Roman surrounding armies.

They lost everything, and everything materially was obliterated and shaken to the ground including the temple, in flames of fire.

@GEN2REV Hope you understand, thank you for your time.

Right. Ok.

So, much like the Wheat and the Tares, there are people who have existed always, from the time of Gen. 3:15 until this very day, who live and die like normal, but who have no chance of ever coming to any knowledge of God, or any saving grace.

I would agree with that based on what Scripture has to say about it.

And, don't forget - of course, as you touched upon, all unbelievers are never resurrected. Even the unbelieving citizens of Jesus' time witnessed His resurrection, but none of their kind will ever be resurrected. Only those who have Jesus' spiritual life within them can take part in the resurrection; and most of those will end up in the Lake.

Agreed.

 

[GEN2REV]

I will use an illustration G2R.

Again?

My illustration tech is broken.

How bout just a straight answer.

Thanks.

 

[quietthinker]

Again?

My illustration tech is broken.

How bout just a straight answer.

Thanks.

For all your DNA yada yada G2R you don't hear my answer. Well, that tells a story!

 

[MatthewG]

Right. Ok.

So, much like the Wheat and the Tares, there are people who have existed always, from the time of Gen. 3:15 until this very day, who live and die like normal, but who have no chance of ever coming to any knowledge of God, or any saving grace.

I would agree with that based on what Scripture has to say about it.

And, don't forget - of course, as you touched upon, all unbelievers are never resurrected. Even the unbelieving citizens of Jesus' time witnessed His resurrection, but none of their kind will ever be resurrected. Only those who have Jesus' spiritual life within them can take part in the resurrection; and most of those will end up in the Lake.

Agreed.

Though we don’t agree on all aspects thank you for commenting and sharing with me.

 

[GEN2REV]

For all your DNA yada yada G2R you don't hear my answer. Well, that tells a story!

Because it would be so easy, and so obvious, to answer that you prefer Truth, it's kinda obvious that you prefer traditions of men.

So you choose tradition?

 

[GEN2REV]

Though we don’t agree on all aspects thank you for commenting and sharing with me.

The honor is all mine.

At least we agree on the most important parts.

Like Matthew 24 hasn't happened yet.

And Jesus was seen by masses of people when He was resurrected.

And that unbelievers cannot be resurrected.

And that Pre-Mil isn't Biblical.

And that Pre-Trib Rapture is a lie.

Oh and that the trinity is false doctrine; we both hate that one.

 

[MatthewG]

Okay, thank you again for sharing your side of the story. Take care.

 

[reformed1689]

Oh you clever bird!
The conversation was over this: God is not willing for any man to perish, which means it is not what God wants, desires or or wills that any man perish vs. what you said, which was this: God does not want every man to be saved.

So we have God: I do not will or desire or want for any man to perish.
And we have you: God does not want every man to be saved.

Isn’t it enough for you to keep the best of the pastures for yourselves? Must you also trample down the rest? Isn’t it enough for you to drink clear water for yourselves? Must you also muddy the rest with your feet?

I see you added to Scripture. It does not say "I do not want for any man to perish" That is not what it says. It says I am not willing any to perish. However, man is not there. It is referring to a specific group as determined by the context of the passage. The beloved.

And I asked you about Pharaoh and Judas. What about Romans 9. Why do you ignore this?

And your last paragraph makes no sense at all. Foolishness.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I see you added to Scripture. It does not say "I do not want for any man to perish" That is not what it says. It says I am not willing any to perish. However, man is not there. It is referring to a specific group as determined by the context of the passage. The beloved.

And I asked you about Pharaoh and Judas. What about Romans 9. Why do you ignore this?

And your last paragraph makes no sense at all. Foolishness.

oh, well then, you should never answer a fool in his folly.

 

[reformed1689]

oh, well then, you should never answer a fool in his folly.

You really like to take Scripture out of context I see. And still have not answered the question. Why is that?

 

[bbyrd009]

John 2:16
To those who sold the doves, he said, "Take these things out of here! Don't make my Father's house a marketplace ...

wow, guess i need to read the passage in John again, thank you qt

 

[bbyrd009]

You have asked this a couple of times. How is it you don't hear my answer in my reply?

may Yah help me to never be convinced that i have found “truth” lol

 

[bbyrd009]

what is written in Scripture - the Truth? Which never changes

man, if the Bible doesnt change on you over time—like “the truth” i guess—then…well, that sure gives me pause, to put it mildly. It strikes me as an indication of state of mind, wadr. How might a ppl who cannot find 95% of creation even with their best minds know what “the truth” even is?

but dont get me wrong, surely there are “truths” that never change too

 

[bbyrd009]

I will use an illustration G2R. Jesus told those around him including the Pharisees who he was yet most didn't hear it. The educated in particular asked him again and again and he gave them this answer....
John 8:25
“Who are you?” they asked.
“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied......'

How is it they didn't/couldn't/wouldn't hear his answer??
You might want to check the context.

give me hidden manna over meat any day lol