Is there a place for mea place where you want me to belord would you still die for methough iv'e done everythingthat is so unworthyI know that I have hurt theethe only, who can save methe only, who can rescue me from methe only, who delivered methe only, who remembers meOh how I want to dwell with the one called godThe one who is my staff, also my rodI am so sorry godfor Iv'e done was wrong=========================Sitting here at my computer desk, I wonder IF: If god will forgive me for all I have done. If, there still is a place for me in heaven, or are my past family and friends looking down upon me in shame and discust. If.. If I am being punished for not living my life according to GOD. If.. If I did lead my life according to god, would my current child still possibly have down syndrome, would I still be with my ex wife, and would I be happy? Would my grandfather have had that stroke, or if my girlfriend would still have her job?Where would my life be?I am stuck in the "Where would my life be", because my life is currently rock bottom. Can I ask god to help me even though I have thrown m back to him? I want to be loved by GOD, life is to much for me to handle alone.I had a life experiance that let me know %100 God is real, I am just afraid I am no longer in his great book anymore.I try to be very nice and helpful to everyone, as I do believe in Karma*, but does believing in Karma go against my belief in God?Lord is there hope left for me, or has the final straw been pulled? Do I just give upMaybe I wasn't destined to go to heaven when I was born, and I am now getting my just desserts.I feel sorry for whoever ends up reading this, as my grammer and thoughs are off pattern.
Are we destined to heaven or hell when we are born?
- Thread starter Thebadguy
- Start date
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Please understand that we don't go to heaven on our own merits. It is by the grace of God, through the sacrifice of Jesus, that we go to heaven. If God gave us what we deserved NONE of us would go to heaven. Until we choose God then we all are bound for hell. You are still much loved by our Father no matter what you have done or not done. He wants you as much now as he did before when you felt worthy. Read the prodigal son as that is how God sees us. That father was not looking at what his son did or didn't do. He was looking at one thing only - his son was home. The other stuff meant nothing to the father. Please realize that God wants you still and where you end up is ENTIRELY up to you. God bless. Also I have epilepsy and so do two of my daughters. God has used my epilepsy to help others. God didn't give your child her illness. It was just one of those things. I bet you love your child anyway.
Isaiah 1:18"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
(Thebadguy;45850)
Sitting here at my computer desk, I wonder IF: If god will forgive me for all I have done. If, there still is a place for me in heaven, or are my past family and friends looking down upon me in shame and discust. If.. If I am being punished for not living my life according to GOD. If.. If I did lead my life according to god, would my current child still possibly have down syndrome, would I still be with my ex wife, and would I be happy? Would my grandfather have had that stroke, or if my girlfriend would still have her job?Where would my life be?I am stuck in the "Where would my life be", because my life is currently rock bottom. Can I ask god to help me even though I have thrown m back to him? I want to be loved by GOD, life is to much for me to handle alone.
God loves you more than you can possible imagine. So much so that he gave Jesus to die for you. There is nothing that you have done that will make God turn away from you. Look at Paul in the Bible. He was persecuting Christians. Whatever you have done can't be worse than that. But God forgave him and he will forgive you too. What Nyoka has said is exactly right.If you start thinking about what could have been you will go crazy. There is no way that you can know what may or may not have happened. You are at this point now in your life and you need to decide where you will go from here. You say your life has hit rock bottom. I know what that is like. It was only when I hit rock bottom that I found God. I am only here today because of God's great love. I have done many things that I regret and I know God has forgiven me. I repented of my sins and am now living his way (or at least trying to).(Thebadguy;45850)
I had a life experiance that let me know %100 God is real, I am just afraid I am no longer in his great book anymore.
If you know that God is real it is probably because he has shown that to you. So you are most certainly in his great book. Acknowledge that Jesus is Lord.(Thebadguy;45850)
I try to be very nice and helpful to everyone, as I do believe in Karma*, but does believing in Karma go against my belief in God?
Instead of believing in Karma follow the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have them do to you. Jesus said "Love your neighbour as yourself." (Thebadguy;45850)
Lord is there hope left for me, or has the final straw been pulled? Do I just give up
There is always hope. Never give up. God loves you and will always love you, regardless of what you have done.(Thebadguy;45850)
Maybe I wasn't destined to go to heaven when I was born, and I am now getting my just desserts.
If you want to spend eternity in the presence of God, all you have to do is turn and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. What is past is past. What is important is what you do now.(Thebadguy;45850)
I feel sorry for whoever ends up reading this, as my grammer and thoughs are off pattern.
I only hope that I have been helpful in some small way.
Sitting here at my computer desk, I wonder IF: If god will forgive me for all I have done. If, there still is a place for me in heaven, or are my past family and friends looking down upon me in shame and discust. If.. If I am being punished for not living my life according to GOD. If.. If I did lead my life according to god, would my current child still possibly have down syndrome, would I still be with my ex wife, and would I be happy? Would my grandfather have had that stroke, or if my girlfriend would still have her job?Where would my life be?I am stuck in the "Where would my life be", because my life is currently rock bottom. Can I ask god to help me even though I have thrown m back to him? I want to be loved by GOD, life is to much for me to handle alone.
God loves you more than you can possible imagine. So much so that he gave Jesus to die for you. There is nothing that you have done that will make God turn away from you. Look at Paul in the Bible. He was persecuting Christians. Whatever you have done can't be worse than that. But God forgave him and he will forgive you too. What Nyoka has said is exactly right.If you start thinking about what could have been you will go crazy. There is no way that you can know what may or may not have happened. You are at this point now in your life and you need to decide where you will go from here. You say your life has hit rock bottom. I know what that is like. It was only when I hit rock bottom that I found God. I am only here today because of God's great love. I have done many things that I regret and I know God has forgiven me. I repented of my sins and am now living his way (or at least trying to).(Thebadguy;45850)
I had a life experiance that let me know %100 God is real, I am just afraid I am no longer in his great book anymore.
If you know that God is real it is probably because he has shown that to you. So you are most certainly in his great book. Acknowledge that Jesus is Lord.(Thebadguy;45850)
I try to be very nice and helpful to everyone, as I do believe in Karma*, but does believing in Karma go against my belief in God?
Instead of believing in Karma follow the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have them do to you. Jesus said "Love your neighbour as yourself." (Thebadguy;45850)
Lord is there hope left for me, or has the final straw been pulled? Do I just give up
There is always hope. Never give up. God loves you and will always love you, regardless of what you have done.(Thebadguy;45850)
Maybe I wasn't destined to go to heaven when I was born, and I am now getting my just desserts.
If you want to spend eternity in the presence of God, all you have to do is turn and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. What is past is past. What is important is what you do now.(Thebadguy;45850)
I feel sorry for whoever ends up reading this, as my grammer and thoughs are off pattern.
I only hope that I have been helpful in some small way.
Hi Thebadguy, I pray these responses have helped you. They have me.Zadzial, your response is a great help!
If the effects of "karma" seem real to you, it's just God. Not some other mysterious force.As for predestination - Those who are afraid that they are destined to Hell, and understand what Jesus did for them, really aren't predestined for Hell. Christ wouldn't have given you the heart He did, nor would He have given you the conscience He did if you meant for Hell.Having said that, I can't know if your in a relationship with Christ. Only you and God will ever be sure of that.And I personally believe in eternal security. Which means when your saved, you can't lose your salvation. You can lose Heavenly rewards, be punished here on earth, and God will even cut your days short! But, to be able to sin your way out of union with God would take away from His perfection.IMOBut to everyone else, this is not the place to get into an eternal security discussion, so let's not start one. PM me, or make a new thread elsewhere if you like, but not here.Good luck! Praying that God will comfort your heart and soul!
God does not depend on destiny. Your salvation is not dependend on destiny.All people will be given a fair opportunity for salvation before all is said and done.When God calls you it will be up to you.
(Wakka;45856)
Two words buddy, free will. God gave us a choice whether or not to follow him.
In Romans 8And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. I don't think freewill is a concept the bible talks about. Did Judas have free will? What about the Egyptian emporer?
Two words buddy, free will. God gave us a choice whether or not to follow him.
In Romans 8And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. I don't think freewill is a concept the bible talks about. Did Judas have free will? What about the Egyptian emporer?
Thank you all Again!! I can't type long because im at work. Take care I'll post my thanks later.
(sexymadison69;45953)
In Romans 8And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. I don't think freewill is a concept the bible talks about. Did Judas have free will? What about the Egyptian emporer?
Free will is what its all about everyone has free will and yes Judas had free will as did the Pharroh. were they predestined to do what they did? perhaps. but they still had free will to choose not to God just knew what they would choose to do because he knew their hearts
In Romans 8And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. I don't think freewill is a concept the bible talks about. Did Judas have free will? What about the Egyptian emporer?
Free will is what its all about everyone has free will and yes Judas had free will as did the Pharroh. were they predestined to do what they did? perhaps. but they still had free will to choose not to God just knew what they would choose to do because he knew their hearts
forgivenWretch
New Member
The only destination that is set upon us, as we are born is that we shall die. Until that time of death, we have a choice to make. We choose either to accept God's gift and spend eternity in Heaven with Him, or not to accept His gift and condemn our selves to eternal pain and suffering in the pits of Hell. The decision is ours, not God's. We choose our fate!
(kriss;46090)
Free will is what its all about everyone has free will and yes Judas had free will as did the Pharroh. were they predestined to do what they did? perhaps. but they still had free will to choose not to God just knew what they would choose to do because he knew their hearts
How can predestination and free will co-exist? How can free will and God's soveriegnty exist? If God truely is sovereign, as it he rules everything, then nothing is outside of his direct control. To claim free will is to claim that God is less.Plus, if it is free will, then we are not completely saved by grace, it was OUR choice to follow/not follow God. God did 99.999999999% of the saving, but we still did that small percent.Exodus 7 : But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to youGod hardened the Pharaohs heart, the Pharaoh had no choice.(forgivenWretch;46132)
The only destination that is set upon us, as we are born is that we shall die. Until that time of death, we have a choice to make. We choose either to accept God's gift and spend eternity in Heaven with Him, or not to accept His gift and condemn our selves to eternal pain and suffering in the pits of Hell. The decision is ours, not God's. We choose our fate!
Scriptural proof please.Free will is an illusion. Yes we all experience it, but it's just an illusion. God is in control, is he not?
Free will is what its all about everyone has free will and yes Judas had free will as did the Pharroh. were they predestined to do what they did? perhaps. but they still had free will to choose not to God just knew what they would choose to do because he knew their hearts
How can predestination and free will co-exist? How can free will and God's soveriegnty exist? If God truely is sovereign, as it he rules everything, then nothing is outside of his direct control. To claim free will is to claim that God is less.Plus, if it is free will, then we are not completely saved by grace, it was OUR choice to follow/not follow God. God did 99.999999999% of the saving, but we still did that small percent.Exodus 7 : But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to youGod hardened the Pharaohs heart, the Pharaoh had no choice.(forgivenWretch;46132)
The only destination that is set upon us, as we are born is that we shall die. Until that time of death, we have a choice to make. We choose either to accept God's gift and spend eternity in Heaven with Him, or not to accept His gift and condemn our selves to eternal pain and suffering in the pits of Hell. The decision is ours, not God's. We choose our fate!
Scriptural proof please.Free will is an illusion. Yes we all experience it, but it's just an illusion. God is in control, is he not?
Shalom,
Are we destined to heaven or hell when we are born?
NO and yet yes. We are all originally destined or designed to go to Heaven (Rom 8:29). Then we are born and because of the sin of Adam being past through the bloodline which comes from your father, for life is in the blood (Lev 17:11), we are all then destine toward Hell. Thankfully YHVH loves what HE has created and HE will then do whatever HE can short of forcing you to accept HIM in HIS attempt to save you from your sin.The following that you wrote is HIM giving voice to your sin so that you will reach the end of your self and return to HIM as in Lk 15:17-21...(Thebadguy;45850)
Is there a place for mea place where you want me to belord would you still die for methough iv'e done everythingthat is so unworthyI know that I have hurt theethe only, who can save methe only, who can rescue me from methe only, who delivered methe only, who remembers meOh how I want to dwell with the one called godThe one who is my staff, also my rodI am so sorry godfor Iv'e done was wrong=========================Sitting here at my computer desk, I wonder IF: If god will forgive me for all I have done. If, there still is a place for me in heaven, or are my past family and friends looking down upon me in shame and discust. If.. If I am being punished for not living my life according to GOD. If.. If I did lead my life according to god, would my current child still possibly have down syndrome, would I still be with my ex wife, and would I be happy? Would my grandfather have had that stroke, or if my girlfriend would still have her job?Where would my life be?I am stuck in the "Where would my life be", because my life is currently rock bottom. Can I ask god to help me even though I have thrown m back to him? I want to be loved by GOD, life is to much for me to handle alone.I had a life experiance that let me know %100 God is real, I am just afraid I am no longer in his great book anymore.I try to be very nice and helpful to everyone, as I do believe in Karma*, but does believing in Karma go against my belief in God?Lord is there hope left for me, or has the final straw been pulled? Do I just give upMaybe I wasn't destined to go to heaven when I was born, and I am now getting my just desserts.I feel sorry for whoever ends up reading this, as my grammer and thoughs are off pattern.
As HIS representative I say, "Welcome home!"
Are we destined to heaven or hell when we are born?
NO and yet yes. We are all originally destined or designed to go to Heaven (Rom 8:29). Then we are born and because of the sin of Adam being past through the bloodline which comes from your father, for life is in the blood (Lev 17:11), we are all then destine toward Hell. Thankfully YHVH loves what HE has created and HE will then do whatever HE can short of forcing you to accept HIM in HIS attempt to save you from your sin.The following that you wrote is HIM giving voice to your sin so that you will reach the end of your self and return to HIM as in Lk 15:17-21...(Thebadguy;45850)
Is there a place for mea place where you want me to belord would you still die for methough iv'e done everythingthat is so unworthyI know that I have hurt theethe only, who can save methe only, who can rescue me from methe only, who delivered methe only, who remembers meOh how I want to dwell with the one called godThe one who is my staff, also my rodI am so sorry godfor Iv'e done was wrong=========================Sitting here at my computer desk, I wonder IF: If god will forgive me for all I have done. If, there still is a place for me in heaven, or are my past family and friends looking down upon me in shame and discust. If.. If I am being punished for not living my life according to GOD. If.. If I did lead my life according to god, would my current child still possibly have down syndrome, would I still be with my ex wife, and would I be happy? Would my grandfather have had that stroke, or if my girlfriend would still have her job?Where would my life be?I am stuck in the "Where would my life be", because my life is currently rock bottom. Can I ask god to help me even though I have thrown m back to him? I want to be loved by GOD, life is to much for me to handle alone.I had a life experiance that let me know %100 God is real, I am just afraid I am no longer in his great book anymore.I try to be very nice and helpful to everyone, as I do believe in Karma*, but does believing in Karma go against my belief in God?Lord is there hope left for me, or has the final straw been pulled? Do I just give upMaybe I wasn't destined to go to heaven when I was born, and I am now getting my just desserts.I feel sorry for whoever ends up reading this, as my grammer and thoughs are off pattern.
As HIS representative I say, "Welcome home!"
Shalom,sexymadison69 Wrote:
How can predestination and free will co-exist? How can free will and God's soveriegnty exist? If God truely is sovereign, as it he rules everything, then nothing is outside of his direct control. To claim free will is to claim that God is less.Plus, if it is free will, then we are not completely saved by grace, it was OUR choice to follow/not follow God. God did 99.999999999% of the saving, but we still did that small percent.Exodus 7 : But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to youGod hardened the Pharaohs heart, the Pharaoh had no choice.
This almost sounds logical.Let's first address the issue of sovereignty.
If God truely is sovereign, as it he rules everything, then nothing is outside of his direct control.
Makes sense until we read in the very first chapter of the Book of the Bible where YHVH says...Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.At that point YHVH limited HIMself. He gave all of the dominion over everything on or flying above the earth to mankind. When Adam sinned he gave that over to satan ( an angel that had chose to disobey YHVH) and satan became known as the prince of the air (earth). Y'SHUA then came and overcame sin, living a perfect life and became the sacrifice needed to purchase back the dominion. When He succeeded in this we read...
r 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.These "angels" spoken of include satan.Y'SHUA then was in control of everything on the earth.1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.However, Y'SHUA came with a precondition and a condition. The Precondition is that one must first accept HIM as their LORD. The Condition is that after that one must follow HIM in all things and with our entirety.Few ever meet both the Precondition and Condition. Most find themselves in between the two. That is acceptable to YHVH as long as we continue to strive after the Image that Y'SHUA left us with...Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.This Condition however comes with a dark side. The dark side is that YHVH is so benevolent that HE will never take back something that HE has given us and HE gave all of us the freedom to choose. We can choose to follow after Y'SHUA or we can choose to serve our "SELF" (a dirty four letter word for sin). HE does not want any that do not want HIM.You conclude with the verse from Ex 7:3-4 and state that YHVH hardened his heart so he had no choice. YHVH does not pre-punish someone. Pharaoh and the Egyptians and enslaved the Jews, treated them badly and worshiped false gods, thus YHVH was hardening the heart of Pharaoh in order to punish him and Egypt for their sins.
How can predestination and free will co-exist? How can free will and God's soveriegnty exist? If God truely is sovereign, as it he rules everything, then nothing is outside of his direct control. To claim free will is to claim that God is less.Plus, if it is free will, then we are not completely saved by grace, it was OUR choice to follow/not follow God. God did 99.999999999% of the saving, but we still did that small percent.Exodus 7 : But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to youGod hardened the Pharaohs heart, the Pharaoh had no choice.
This almost sounds logical.Let's first address the issue of sovereignty.
If God truely is sovereign, as it he rules everything, then nothing is outside of his direct control.
Makes sense until we read in the very first chapter of the Book of the Bible where YHVH says...Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.At that point YHVH limited HIMself. He gave all of the dominion over everything on or flying above the earth to mankind. When Adam sinned he gave that over to satan ( an angel that had chose to disobey YHVH) and satan became known as the prince of the air (earth). Y'SHUA then came and overcame sin, living a perfect life and became the sacrifice needed to purchase back the dominion. When He succeeded in this we read...
r 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.These "angels" spoken of include satan.Y'SHUA then was in control of everything on the earth.1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.However, Y'SHUA came with a precondition and a condition. The Precondition is that one must first accept HIM as their LORD. The Condition is that after that one must follow HIM in all things and with our entirety.Few ever meet both the Precondition and Condition. Most find themselves in between the two. That is acceptable to YHVH as long as we continue to strive after the Image that Y'SHUA left us with...Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.This Condition however comes with a dark side. The dark side is that YHVH is so benevolent that HE will never take back something that HE has given us and HE gave all of us the freedom to choose. We can choose to follow after Y'SHUA or we can choose to serve our "SELF" (a dirty four letter word for sin). HE does not want any that do not want HIM.You conclude with the verse from Ex 7:3-4 and state that YHVH hardened his heart so he had no choice. YHVH does not pre-punish someone. Pharaoh and the Egyptians and enslaved the Jews, treated them badly and worshiped false gods, thus YHVH was hardening the heart of Pharaoh in order to punish him and Egypt for their sins.Your parents tell you do not eat that nice sweet smelling,perfectly made,triple chocolate cake. Yet they leave for 1 week. Most parents KNOW-you are going to eat it,but does the fact they know it,make it predestined. NO THEY KNOW YOUR HEART-they don't want you to because they love you,but they know your heart and know you are going to because of FREE WILL. If that helps,I have done my job
Shalom,Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.The only thing this verse is telling us that is predestined is that all are to be conformed into the image of The CHRIST. That is what everyone is made for but it is not what everyone will choose to do.
Jon-Marc
New Member
(Semachiah;46305)
Shalom,Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.The only thing this verse is telling us that is predestined is that are to be conformed into the image of The CHRIST. tHAT IS WHAT EVERYONE IS MADE FOR BUT IT IS NOT WHAT EVERYONE WILL CHOOSE TO DO.
Also, note the words, "whom he did foreknow". God knew who would accept Him and who would reject Him, and He predestined that those who did would be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. That has nothing whatsoever to do with predestining people to heaven or hell against their will. God knew before we were born that we would accept or reject Him, and with that pre-knowledge He has determined what He will do.
Shalom,Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.The only thing this verse is telling us that is predestined is that are to be conformed into the image of The CHRIST. tHAT IS WHAT EVERYONE IS MADE FOR BUT IT IS NOT WHAT EVERYONE WILL CHOOSE TO DO.
Also, note the words, "whom he did foreknow". God knew who would accept Him and who would reject Him, and He predestined that those who did would be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. That has nothing whatsoever to do with predestining people to heaven or hell against their will. God knew before we were born that we would accept or reject Him, and with that pre-knowledge He has determined what He will do.
If foreseen faith was in view, Paul would have written "what he did foreknow" not "whom." Faith is not a person, unless you're talking about Faith hill or someone.
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