Are We Hypocrites??

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Foreigner

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Does sin in their lives mean they were not called by God?

David got Uriah's wife pregnant and had him put at the front lines so he would be killed.

Yet he was a mighty man of God who was blessed both before and after that period of time in his life.
 

jerryjohnson

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Does sin in their lives mean they were not called by God?

David got Uriah's wife pregnant and had him put at the front lines so he would be killed.

Yet he was a mighty man of God who was blessed both before and after that period of time in his life.

Well foreigner, think it through, If sin means that they were not called, no one is called, because all men sin. But some are called.
 

Foreigner

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I never said sin mean they were not called.

Rom. 3:23 states "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

If God was going to call only those without sin, there would have been no one for him to call.

My post was for those who want to stand in judgement of preachers and evangelists that are caught up in their sin.
 

6stringedsignseeker

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I see a hypocrite as someone who speaks out against a sin, for example, yet hides the fact that he or she does the same, not owning up to the fact that they sin as well. If I'm explaining to someone how their actions are sinful I'm usually pretty quick to explain "you know what? I have the same problem." I won't tell someone lust is sinful and they need to change this in their life without admitting I have or have had a problem with lust myself, or any other sinful act for that matter. Preaching against something you may do yourself doesn't make you a hypocrite... it's hiding the fact and acting like you don't, that makes you a hypocrite. It's like telling someone that to lie is a sin and not admitting we lie ourselves.... how many of us have never told a lie?
 

Foreigner

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I was just saying the same thing to President Obama this morning while we were having a private breakfast aboard Air Force One.
 

Brother Mike

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Foreigner:
My post was for those who want to stand in judgement of preachers and evangelists that are caught up in their sin.

The Robster:

We're all hypocrites at one point or another in thsi life. Its very hard not to be every now and then.


6stringedsignseeker
Preaching against something you may do yourself doesn't make you a hypocrite... it's hiding the fact and acting like you don't, that makes you a hypocrite. It's like telling someone that to lie is a sin and not admitting we lie ourselves.... how many of us have never told a lie?

While my thread was more about breaking your own Doctrine, The book of James and sin was mentioned. One thing is that I never condemn someone that is in sin. Abortion, Adultery, Child Molestation, whatever. As a teacher, I believe it is our Job to show scriptures about how destructive sin can be in our lives. It can even bring long standing legal consequences, such as the case of Child Molestation and theft.

Practicing sin as a teacher of the word is a whole other matter, but I have to fully agree with every one of you on this subject. We may have done the same things ourselves, but revelation from those things, comforting with the same comfort the Lord has given us over it, may help someone become free. Just because we might miss it, does not take away the fact that all sin leads to death.
I don't want anyone to walk away feeling condemned, or down about the things they allow though, if they do, I have not been listening to the Lord.

Doctrine Hypocrite:


What do you Mighty Children think about this one?

For a couple years, I had been preaching that if you believe, God will spare your child. Yet, I never had to go though any situation with my own Child where death was at the door.

I also preached on God's prosperity, though I had been poor for most of my life. I saw things in the scriptures that I had yet myself to obtain.

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

I taught tithing, yet, I have plenty room to receive more. I have tithed for years, yet still had some struggling situations where I had to believe God, just to pay rent. Now things over the years have gotten better and better, and more and more blessings but not where things are running over, yet we serve a to much God.
Is that Hypocritical.


Jesus Is Lord
 

Rach1370

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Brother Mike, remember when I asked you to bring something other than your own opinion....I have not seen that yet.
As to your dig on the comment I posted (could you not simply have asked for names?) I'm happy to give some. Or, if you have an ESV study bible, simply open the cover.
Lane T Dennis (PhD northwestern university)
Wayne Grudem (PhD The University of Cambridge)
J I Packer (D. Pil, The University of Oxford)
Scott J Hafemann (D.Theol., Eberhard-Karls-Universitat Tubingen)
Grant R. Osborne (PhD The University of Aberdeen)

These are just some names, I could go on.


"From my reading of this, The will of God must be known. Everything seems right, and in context. However, what is meant by Praying like Jesus? He did know the will of God concerning healing, after all, He healed all, and turned not one away. Doing the will of his father." - you clearly state here it is only your interpretation. And that the will of God MUST be know. This is rubbish, the will of God is immutable and infinite. Does it say anywhere that God sent Jesus so that all can be healed? No. Jesus came that we all may have life - an eternal life where everyone will be perfect and well.

Your assumption that faith has only one outcome: healing, is so wrong.
Read Luke 8:10 and Luke 8:25, our faith is not to rest in that healing WILL happen. Our faith is to be in Jesus.
Now you would say "yes, and it is Jesus' will that we be healed".
I say no, It is Jesus' will for us to love him, his will that we accept his gift of Grace and be saved. His will to trust in him.
Luke 8:36 'And those who had seen it told them how the demon-possesed man had been healed.' The word Healed here is sozo which can also be translated as saved.
Miraculous healing is for some, as your son, and is to be praised. But it is not for others, not for many really.
Do you really think this life is supposed to be pain and suffering free? Why would Jesus have told his disciples:
"And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." Matt 10:41

"Now, Jesus prayed, not my will but your will be done. Was Jesus having a healing meeting in the Garden? NO, wrong scripture, and out of context. Not only that, Jesus did know the will of God in the Garden. It is written that he Was obedient unto death." -see here you accept that God has, let us call it more than one will. It is his will here that Jesus should die for the sins of man. How you can then go on and say that Jesus' only will for us is faith to be healed? If you can accept that Jesus is capable of more than one will, and we know from scripture that he is, then you must see that his will for us to grow towards him, to love him more everyday, to put our trust in him and follow him always and various other things that he speaks of in the bible, that he requests of us throughout our lives; if trials, or illness or hardships or persecution, if any of these can accomplish our growing in him, then THAT is his will for us.

Im sorry, that sentence was a little convoluted, but did you get my meaning?? God is soverign and all powerful, if we are saved and live for him and trust implicitly in him, then we are already under his will. There, that was abit simpler!

"Now we just need to find those scriptures where Jesus somehow changed............That some how He is different than the Jesus we see in the Gospels. My, there are none..........and God is no respecter of persons......

So, we can boldly believe that we do receive healing, because we know his will, don't we."
No, I don't believe Jesus has changed, he is God and God is the same yesterday, today and forever. But again you assume that his ONLY will is for healing. Is healing the ONLY thing he did on this earth?

I have to kinda stop there and get lunch for my boy, but I'll come back to finish my thoughts!!

And Brother Mike, if you could find some references to back up your opinions??
Thanks, Rach
 

jerryjohnson

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Brother Mike, remember when I asked you to bring something other than your own opinion....I have not seen that yet.
As to your dig on the comment I posted (could you not simply have asked for names?) I'm happy to give some. Or, if you have an ESV study bible, simply open the cover.
Lane T Dennis (PhD northwestern university)
Wayne Grudem (PhD The University of Cambridge)
J I Packer (D. Pil, The University of Oxford)
Scott J Hafemann (D.Theol., Eberhard-Karls-Universitat Tubingen)
Grant R. Osborne (PhD The University of Aberdeen)

These are just some names, I could go on.


"From my reading of this, The will of God must be known. Everything seems right, and in context. However, what is meant by Praying like Jesus? He did know the will of God concerning healing, after all, He healed all, and turned not one away. Doing the will of his father." - you clearly state here it is only your interpretation. And that the will of God MUST be know. This is rubbish, the will of God is immutable and infinite. Does it say anywhere that God sent Jesus so that all can be healed? No. Jesus came that we all may have life - an eternal life where everyone will be perfect and well.

Your assumption that faith has only one outcome: healing, is so wrong.
Read Luke 8:10 and Luke 8:25, our faith is not to rest in that healing WILL happen. Our faith is to be in Jesus.
Now you would say "yes, and it is Jesus' will that we be healed".
I say no, It is Jesus' will for us to love him, his will that we accept his gift of Grace and be saved. His will to trust in him.
Luke 8:36 'And those who had seen it told them how the demon-possesed man had been healed.' The word Healed here is sozo which can also be translated as saved.
Miraculous healing is for some, as your son, and is to be praised. But it is not for others, not for many really.
Do you really think this life is supposed to be pain and suffering free? Why would Jesus have told his disciples:
"And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." Matt 10:41

"Now, Jesus prayed, not my will but your will be done. Was Jesus having a healing meeting in the Garden? NO, wrong scripture, and out of context. Not only that, Jesus did know the will of God in the Garden. It is written that he Was obedient unto death." -see here you accept that God has, let us call it more than one will. It is his will here that Jesus should die for the sins of man. How you can then go on and say that Jesus' only will for us is faith to be healed? If you can accept that Jesus is capable of more than one will, and we know from scripture that he is, then you must see that his will for us to grow towards him, to love him more everyday, to put our trust in him and follow him always and various other things that he speaks of in the bible, that he requests of us throughout our lives; if trials, or illness or hardships or persecution, if any of these can accomplish our growing in him, then THAT is his will for us.

Im sorry, that sentence was a little convoluted, but did you get my meaning?? God is soverign and all powerful, if we are saved and live for him and trust implicitly in him, then we are already under his will. There, that was abit simpler!

"Now we just need to find those scriptures where Jesus somehow changed............That some how He is different than the Jesus we see in the Gospels. My, there are none..........and God is no respecter of persons......

So, we can boldly believe that we do receive healing, because we know his will, don't we."
No, I don't believe Jesus has changed, he is God and God is the same yesterday, today and forever. But again you assume that his ONLY will is for healing. Is healing the ONLY thing he did on this earth?

I have to kinda stop there and get lunch for my boy, but I'll come back to finish my thoughts!!

And Brother Mike, if you could find some references to back up your opinions??
Thanks, Rach


I agree!
 

Brother Mike

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I don't read commentary............. I have a Teacher already.

I also don't just take what anyone says. I need scriptures.

I am not a puppet, I was told to be Led by the Spirit of God. Not the commentary of man.


If you want to know How I read scriptures, I take it very literal.

here we go...................

you clearly state here it is only your interpretation. And that the will of God MUST be know. This is rubbish, the will of God is immutable and infinite. Does it say anywhere that God sent Jesus so that all can be healed? No. Jesus came that we all may have life - an eternal life where everyone will be perfect and well.

Rach........... Sister...............sigh.............. I read the scripture and just believe them. If it says something, then I may not be in that place to receive it. As you said, we are growing in Christ. Just because I need to know something from God, does not mean it falls in my lap. Time with God, seeking, is a key. I do know that I will always get my answer though and know what to do. He is not hiding anything that we need to know.

Eph 5:17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. ESV

Sister, we are also told that God will give us Wisdom, and in Col we are told to pray that we understand the Will of God in all Wisdom and spiritual understanding. My point is that scriptures tells us it is always possible to know God's will. Scripture says so.

Jesus also came to destroy the works of the devil. The Thief that came to kill, steal and destroy.

But it is not for others, not for many really.
Do you really think this life is supposed to be pain and suffering free?

Never mentioned that once. I said it's the Lords will to heal, and Jesus never turned anyone away or told them that God wanted to use it to teach them something. I never said weapons would not be formed against us.

-
see here you accept that God has, let us call it more than one will. It is his will here that Jesus should die for the sins of man. How you can then go on and say that Jesus' only will for us is faith to be healed? If you can accept that Jesus is capable of more than one will, and we know from scripture that he is, then you must see that his will for us to grow towards him, to love him more everyday, to put our trust in him and follow him always and various other things that he speaks of in the bible, that he requests of us throughout our lives; if trials, or illness or hardships or persecution, if any of these can accomplish our growing in him, then THAT is his will for us.

Ok, back to that "Will" thing........Jesus knew what God's will was already. My reference was using this prayer when someone did not know the will of God. It is using the Prayer out of context. To pray it like Jesus, would be knowing God's will in the first place. I was saying use the scripture in it's context is all.

Example: Lord, I don't want to go to the north pole and be a witness to the Eskimo's. If it be thy will, take this burden from me. "Cup" nevertheless, your will be done.

This was a prayer of obedience to the plan of God. It was Jesus contemplating what he was about to go though. Separation from God. Remember the temptation here was so strong that Jesus sweat like great drops of blood. We are told that no man resisted sin unto blood.

Also no place in the bible that God uses sickness to teach us anything. God said sickness was until Thou be destroyed. It was a curse of the law for disobedience. That is scripture. I did give that already, but so many threads it might have not been here. Sickness was a bad thing though, not a good thing. Read Deut 28.

But again you assume that his ONLY will is for healing. Is healing the ONLY thing he did on this earth?

No, Jesus did more, Healing was a big part however of his ministry that can not be ignored. If he was on Earth, and you went to him for healing, would he turn you away? Of course not.

I have to kinda stop there and get lunch for my boy, but I'll come back to finish my thoughts!!

And Brother Mike, if you could find some references to back up your opinions

Umm... Sorry Sister I gave you that web site. It is about as close as I can get for references. I give scriptures. just don't add to the scripture........... for example.

Eph 5:17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. ESV

Nothing there about God being this or that. You are told not to be foolish, and know what the will of the Lord is. Now it's your Job to seek God, until you find out. Otherwise we just take a black marker and get rid of Eph 5:17.

I hope you understand more of what I am seeing. It may help for latter understanding each other.

Be blessed, I hope Lunch was good.


Jesus Is Lord.
 

Rach1370

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Brother Mike, I'm afraid I simply couldn't understand alot of your last post, sorry, but it did not make alot of sense.
However:

"I don't read commentary............. I have a Teacher already.
I also don't just take what anyone says. I need scriptures.
I am not a puppet, I was told to be Led by the Spirit of God. Not the commentary of man.
If you want to know How I read scriptures, I take it very literal.
"
-I too take the bible literally. As far as commentaries go, I only see it as unwise if you let yourself read thoughts from those you do not know or trust. It is always important to have teachers and advisers that are sound in faith and theology. If you find such then they can be a powerful tool to understanding the Word of the Lord. Do not make the mistake of believing that I am adding too or taking from the bible, I would never do that. But it is simple fact that a lot of the bible can be confusing. This is one of the main reasons we attend church, so that our Pastor (who is a Godly man whom we should be able to trust) can explain passages: what they mean; both in the context of there day and also now and how we incorporate them into our daily living. I cannot imagine how expanding your knowledge base of the scriptures is a bad thing if it helps us understand the message of our God. Besides, I believe it to be a wise thing to search out different views, then pray and be guided by the Spirit as to the truth - relying only on the preaching of one or two preachers, who lets face it are only men, is not the cleverest thing....not wise hmm?


Eph 5:17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. ESV

"Sister, we are also told that God will give us Wisdom, and in Col we are told to pray that we understand the Will of God in all Wisdom and spiritual understanding. My point is that scriptures tells us it is always possible to know God's will. Scripture says so.
" - See here is where I think our thinking divides. I believe that by reading the word, praying about it and a greal deal of faith and trust, we can know God's will in our own lives. Perhaps we feel him calling us to be missonairies, or maybe a stay at home mum. We can know his will regarding our own Salvation, in that we can be very sure! We can know his will regarding our own choices...we choose to be married, he wills us to be faithful to our spouse. A million things, but only about OURSELVES. You cannot know his will for me, for any other, because you know nothing of others personal lives, their faith, their choices, their callings, their prayer lives.
Oh, and btw, the above verse has nothing to do with illness or healing. I love how you time and time again pluck verses out of the bible and just because they have the word "will" or "faith" or "heal" in it you automatically assume that it backs your play. Read it again, from the beginning of the chapter. It warns of the folly of turning from love and into the evils and foolishness of sexual immorality, covetousness, filthy and foolish talking. It says we must walk in the light, bring all our sins into the light. And THE verse above, verse 17, commentary: "This does not mean that a person tries to descern God's secret counsel (his "hidden will") but that he applies God's general guidelines for life as found in the bible (his "revealed will")
What's this hidden/revealed will business? Deut 29:29: The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and our children forever, that we may do all the word of this law. commentary: Not everything that is true of God has been revealed. That there are secret things anticipate the need to trust, obey and be humble before God. What God has revealed is for the sake of obediance.
Also Eph 5:10 and try to ddiscern what is pleasing to the Lord
commentary: The bible gives general priciples for life, but followers of Christ must use wisdom to descern how to apply those principles to the concrete issues of their lives. the book of Proverbs is of great help in this regard. Such wisdom may be defined as "the skill of godly living", which one must thoughtfully descern, apply and practice in order to live in a way that is pleasing to the Lord.


"Never mentioned that once. I said it's the Lords will to heal, and Jesus never turned anyone away or told them that God wanted to use it to teach them something. I never said weapons would not be formed against us." So, it's fine to be persecuted, to suffer terrible woes for Jesus, but us ill people, even if we praise Jesus, we're still a dirty and faithless lot?

"Ok, back to that "Will" thing........Jesus knew what God's will was already. My reference was using this prayer when someone did not know the will of God. It is using the Prayer out of context. To pray it like Jesus, would be knowing God's will in the first place. I was saying use the scripture in it's context is all." - wow, again with the confusing! Im sorry, this is getting convoluted. You believe I used this passage inapropriately? Because Jesus prayer was not about healing then? You think I am 'harping' on the 'will' thing, perhaps I am, but only because you are. You say it IS God's will to heal everyone, then bring out every verse that has the word 'will' in it. My point, and use of this passage is that our Father in Heaven has more going on than just being your 'heal' lapdog. His will is vast. In this case his will was for Jesus to die for our sins (thankfully!). My point is you CANNOT claim that the only will, ever, of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, is to heal the sick. And if you allow the the Trinity has a will and purpose for other things then you must allow that it could include a great many things beyond your pervue. You cannot know every thought of God.


"Umm... Sorry Sister I gave you that web site. It is about as close as I can get for references. I give scriptures. just don't add to the scripture........... for example." - again, it seems you may only be listening to one mans interpretation of the scriptures....not wise. You have accused me before of having no knowledge...well perhaps it is you?

You say people like me are faithless, but I say that trusting God, submitting to his will and Glory, no matter how hard, takes MORE faith.
I say "your will be done", you say "Heal me now".
Heres a thought! How is praying for God's will to be done any different to what you claim you are doing? You believe it IS God's will to heal, don't you? If it's his will to heal me, and I'm praying for his will to be done, I should be healed!....oh, wait! Im not, so perhaps his will is something else for me! And that would mean theres a great gaping hole in your argument!
It makes me laugh to really think about what we're arguing about. That God should or shoudn't, can or can't, will or won't. HE'S GOD!! What he wants done will be done, regardless of our posts!

BTW Brother Mike, you really should try and back up your weird views on the scriptures in a better way. It's just too hard to take it seriously when I can sit here with my own bible and SEE that it means something else.
I'm quite enjoying pouring through Jesus' ministry and my bible, re learning it all, so ta!

Rach
 

jiggyfly

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Hypocrite comes from the Greek word hypokrisis and it is a word used in connection with the theater, it means "play-acting" or "playing a part in a drama".

1Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:


Here Peter, instructing everyone in loving one another uses the Greek word anupokritos ( translated unfeigned) meaning without play-acting.


I think an honest look at the Christian religious institution, hypocrisy is the norm, because of it's carnal origin the CRI has no other method than play-acting and mimicking the ekklesia, the spiritual original.
 

Adstar

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Does sin in their lives mean they were not called by God?

David got Uriah's wife pregnant and had him put at the front lines so he would be killed.

Yet he was a mighty man of God who was blessed both before and after that period of time in his life.

Exactly. What made David loved by God was not His ability to live a sinless life but His proper response to the conviction of sin when he was confrunted with them. David repented of his great sins and was forgiven them.

Davids meekness towards God and aknowledgement of His sins as sins kept him in the right relationship with God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

Brother Mike

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Thank you dear Sister Rach!!!!

First, I want to give a big Praise God, that your still posting with me. I know I have made you extremely upset, I already admitted my OP was not very spirit filled. I also know that my believe system rubs people the Wrong way like my brother Jiggyfly. However, Jiggyfly and I have been going round and round on certain topics for a couple or more years. I still love him and he has written some awesome God inspired Post. He understand more where I am coming from with my Doctrine. Jiggyfly also believes in the gifts of the Spirit (tongues) as well as I do, and operate in.

My Doctrine it is a basic God is so Awesome and good Doctrine. He is the best dad anyone could want and he loves us.
Loves us so much that He sent Jesus to die, sent Jesus to hell. Our Lord Jesus never even did a thing wrong. Yet, that love made him go. As for other teachers, and guidance. I have that. I go to church and teach others myself. I don't take anyone's word for anything though. My wife tried to share with me a prophecy we heard from one of our people we listen to, I shut her down, and said, "That sounds nice, but I'll need some scripture." My wife asked "Don't you trust what they said." Well, trust has nothing to do with it, and I or not believe what they said, but without scriptures, I can't treat it as a absolute, I can't make a doctrine out of it. That is how I am,

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Now look at Mat 7:11 What would you do for your own children if you could stop any hurting, any sickness, prevent upcoming disaster in their lives? That is how I see God, How much more Jesus said is God a better, loving father than us. Sickness is Evil Rach, it robs us. My own son suffered, though he was miraculously healed. Chemo, bone marrow, spinal taps.............That is not God, that is of the destroyer. The thief that comes to rob us of our energy, and quality of life. Jesus is the abundant life. (John 10:10) God is not some space alien, He is our father, and there is nothing good about being sick. I don't want my own children going though it, How much more Jesus said........How much more would God our father not want us to go though it.

My belief in God is about his character and Nature. What kind of God is he.

My circle does not use commentaries. We don't get sermon's out of books, mind you, I have lots of them, but I never look at them. (In my bible program) I could post things and writings from the books my circle have written, but their not going to say anything different than What I have been writing. Not only that, people here can not stand Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Keith Moore (My Pastor) and so on. They make fun of them. (I could not find a bad one of my Pastor.... here is a good one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHRSUmrv7gc


I Put under my Hypocrite title "Take a stand and believe something." I respect both positions. God wants you healed or God does not what you healed. Your suppose to steal you neighbors Plasma TV or not Steal you neighbors TV.
I want believes to have firm scriptures for what they believe.

See here is where I think our thinking divides. I believe that by reading the word, praying about it and a greal deal of faith and trust, we can know God's will in our own lives. Perhaps we feel him calling us to be missonairies, or maybe a stay at home mum. We can know his will regarding our own Salvation, in that we can be very sure! We can know his will regarding our own choices...we choose to be married, he wills us to be faithful to our spouse. A million things, but only about OURSELVES. You cannot know his will for me, for any other, because you know nothing of others personal lives, their faith, their choices, their callings, their prayer lives.

No, I can't say what God has planed for you, but you use commentary to mention something called Hidden will, and where is that scripture? That is why I don't use commentary. Most of it is just made up stuff where people have fallen short and don't understand how to hear from God.

Isa 48:6 You have heard [these things foretold], now you see this fulfillment. And will you not bear witness to it? I show you specified new things from this time forth, even hidden things [kept in reserve] which you have not known.

Jer 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

So, it's fine to be persecuted, to suffer terrible woes for Jesus, but us ill people, even if we praise Jesus, we're still a dirty and faithless lot?

ummm. No Sister Rach................Nobody is faithless if they believe in Jesus. There is not one scripture that says sickness is part of any persecution. Not one scripture that says God uses sickness to teach us or build character. NOT ONE. People add that. I am just saying that it's Not the will of God that your sick.

Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Keep in mind, the Early Church was not concerned with sickness. The Tribulations were the extreme persecutions that the Church was experiencing. That is what tribulation means..... trouble, anguish, persecutions.

again, it seems you may only be listening to one mans interpretation of the scriptures....not wise. You have accused me before of having no knowledge...well perhaps it is you?

No, I listen to the Holy Spirit and compare scriptures. Once again though, I take scripture very literal. for example.

Isa 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

I am the healed. Good enough for me, I won't argue with God about it. (The best people can do in a attempt to wash away scriptures like this, so it fits their Doctrine (God uses sickness to teach us) is to say that this is just Spiritual.
The have no clue what it means it just being spiritual, they just say that to get it our of the realm of the physical, so they don't have to deal with that scripture and grow, and walk in it. They also change their consistency of interpretation to fit what they believe. We should stay consistent. (To long to explain this verse longer but here is a different translation of the whole thing. Look at it, and decide what you think.)

Isa 53:4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains--he hath carried them, And we--we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace is on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us.

If it's his will to heal me, and I'm praying for his will to be done, I should be healed!

Why don't you just change that to Lord, thank you that I see in your word that I am the healed. We have to go back to what it means to believe something and the words you speak.

BTW Brother Mike, you really should try and back up your weird views on the scriptures in a better way. It's just too hard to take it seriously when I can sit here with my own bible and SEE that it means something else.
I'm quite enjoying pouring through Jesus' ministry and my bible, re learning it all, so ta!

Well, if anything, getting in these forums and going back and forth with someone on scriptures is a good way to spend time in your word, Look at scriptures, affirm what you believe and why. Otherwise, we might be doing something else besides spending the time in our word. Getting in that position of teaching what you believe is a lot different than just listening to someone else teach. It has to be good for us to go through these exercises.

God Bless you Sister.....

Jesus Is Lord
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Greeting to Adstar and Jiggfly!!!!!

Jesus Is Lord