Are We Required to Tithe?

[FHII]

Sorry mate but Matt 23:23 is not directed to the Christian. It was directed to the Pharisees and he was telling them off for being so parsimonious about tithing and ignoring matters that were more important.

No.N, it was about the Pharisees but directed TO the multitude and disciples. See Matt 23:1-3. Jesus said do what they say but not as they do. Jesus said they were right for tithing but their motives weren't right.

And I don't need any money to preach the gospel.

Well, Paul did. And most men of God who are full time men of God need a paycheck. They don't have time for other jobs. They need to sustain themselves, they need travel money and they need operating costs for the building.

And tithing is not mentioned once in any book of the New Testam

Yea... Actually it is. 7 times.

Luke 4: has nothing at all to with Satan giving. It was showing how he tried to tempt Jesus to give his power over to him.

Question: Did Satan offer to give Jesus something?

Answer: Yes, but the wrong way. That was my point.

What amazes me is that I asked to take the emphasis off "tithing" and focus on "giving". Yet, you want to harp on tithing.

 

[Ac28]

Why do you feel tithing is not part of the New Covenant?

Why do you believe that the New Covenant is for us Gentiles today? According to Jer 31:31, the NC is for Israel. Is the Law in your inward parts and in your heart - vs 33? Does all this in vs 34 apply to you and everyone else today?
Jer 31:34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The ONLY purpose of the New Covenant is to enable ISRAEL, ONLY, through the Holy Spirit, to be able to keep the Law and love doing it. Israel will ALWAYS have to keep the Law, except for this present 2000 year Gentile period, where Israel doesn't exist as a nation.

Why do the Gentiles continually try to rob Israel of what has been given ONLY to Israel. The Rapture is another example. We have the Appearing - infinitely better than the rapture and about 500 -1000 years sooner.

 

[FHII]

In Genesis 14:20, Abram gave the King of Salem, Melchizedek, a 10th of all Abram had plundered from the Kings of the Valley of Siddim after he retrieved his nephew Lot from them and had taken all the goods the Kings had with them.

We also read in Leviticus 23:22 that some grain in the fields was to be left for the poor.
22When you reap the harvest of your land, moreover, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field nor gather the gleaning of your harvest; you are to leave them for the needy and the alien. I am the LORD your God.'"

Why do you feel tithing is not part of the New Covenant?

I believe churches do need to be maintained; but I believe 10% of a normal persons income is taking away a nice amount from a family.

I also wonder if it wouldn't be better to give directly to those who need help instead of going through a church...do we really know what happens to the money given to churches?

I am a big believer in helping the needy. But why CAN'T the Church be involved? My goodness... I have a long discourse to give but I really don't want to go through all the scriptures that support it.

The PRIMARY purpose of the Church is to preach the gospel and provide orderly worship. But a strong secondary purpose is to help thr poor.

Do you not trust your church to do so? If not you should find another Church. Most Churches have Beneficiary Committees which judge the needs of its members. I would hope they consider all the evidence and make a wise decision.

Finally, yes I know 10% is burden. But once aagain, I looked to turn to simply being a giver. I thi k a tithe is a good place to start, but if you can't make it, at least commit to being a giver.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I was a tither until I found out the truth. Now, whatever God gives me, a 100% is available to him so I give as directed by the Holy Spirit.

The 10% isn't for Him because He needs it, but for our benefit: the act of giving reminds us to put the Lord first and not idolize money.

 

[FHII]

The 10% isn't for Him because He needs it, but for our benefit: the act of giving reminds us to put the Lord first and not idolize money.

Amen Jane Doe! I qish people could see the awesome gift that giving is! It helps people in the natural (preachers, people in need) but spiritually it makes a strong statement to God and Satan.

On another note.... How many of you know about the "Bank account" you have in heaven? Guess what? It exists and it involves MONEY!

 

[tooldtocare]

Are We Required to Tithe?

only if you feel good doing so--

in my view of things -

 

[Enoch111]

Why do you feel tithing is not part of the New Covenant?

Have you read and studied Paul's teachings on Christian giving ("liberality")? They will clearly show that the principles of Christian giving are not the same as those for tithing under the Old Covenant. Indeed, Acts 15 will confirm that also.

While 10% may be applicable to some, 90% may be applicable to others. And when you closely examine the OT tithe, it was more like 30%.

The real issues are different:
1. Are NT principles being taught to Christians or not?
2. Are the churches disbursing the offerings according to biblical principles or not?
3. Should Christians even take advantage of tax deductions in this connection?

 

[GodsGrace]

I was a tither until I found out the truth. Now, whatever God gives me, a 100% is available to him so I give as directed by the Holy Spirit.

I just have a feeling you don't have a family to raise or to help financially.
And I'd like to say that God doesn't need money...people do.
You mean 100% is available, in His name, to those in need.

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace,

Tithing is biblical (for Old Covenant) but not Christian (for New Covenant).

Oz

I agree with this.
But do you believe tithing is a ceremonial Law or a moral Law?
Can it be both??

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry mate but Matt 23:23 is not directed to the Christian. It was directed to the Pharisees and he was telling them off for being so parsimonious about tithing and ignoring matters that were more important.

And I don't need any money to preach the gospel.

And tithing is not mentioned once in any book of the New Testament.

Luke 4: has nothing at all to with Satan giving. It was showing how he tried to tempt Jesus to give his power over to him.

Actually @FHII was correct in how he posted Mathew 23:23.

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and telling them that they tithed on every amount they received but they did not teach the most important things, like compassion for others,,,IOW, the pharisees taught the law but not the spirit of what God wanted. Jesus DID say, however, that the pharisees should have taught being compassionate toward others and keeping the spirit of the law, WHILE not ignoring the tithing.

So it DOES seem that Jesus believed in tithing. But by what Jesus taught, it's also plain that He believed we should be giving with a joyful heart. We must also remember that there was no help from govt facilities and people had to depend on themselves...this was also true of any country before it had social security.

Is some of the burden taken off us?

Mathew 23:23 Jesus said:
23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
24“You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

 

[bbyrd009]

i seem recall a "support who feeds you spiritually" v but cannot find it, has it come out here yet? ty

 

[GodsGrace]

Well...not "abolished"... but, He paid it all.

I don't really know what you mean.
Explain?

 

[GodsGrace]

The Church today is Zero percent Israel by the will of God. There is no nation of Israel today, in God's eyes. Any Jew that wants to get saved must essentially became a Gentile and believe that Christ died for their sins, was buried, and resurrected after 3 days. Today, we have pure equality with the Jews, according to Eph and Col. We are now fellowheirs (equal heirs). During Acts and the Gospels, we weren't heirs at all, since we had no adoption - Rom 9:4.

The Gentiles are the chosen people today - Eph 1:4. Israel is not a nation or, even, a people, today, in God's eyes. The book of Hosea pretty much covers Israel situation today. As in Hos 1:9, Israel is now Lo-ammi, "not My people". In a few years (my guess is either 2063, 2070, or 2085), the Gentile period will end, the present Gentile church will be resurrected in the "Appearing" directly to Heavenly Places, Israel will once again be ammi, God's people, and prophecy will once again be fulfilled.

If we are now part of Israel, equality would be impossible, since Israel would still be the Head and the Gentiles would be the tail, as it was for 2000 years, until the end of Acts. The Mystery in Eph and Col is that, for the first time in History,the Gentiles are 100% separate from Israel, in that we have our very own blessings. The absolute proof of this is our #1 blessing, our Calling of being resurrected directly into the uncreated Heavenly Places, where God makes His abode and Christ now sits at the right hand of God - Eph 1:20, 2:6. Nowhere in the the Bible will you find any Jew, except Christ, that ever had or will have a Hope of ever going to the uncreated Heavenly Places - not even to visit. When things are different, they can't be the same. Israel (just those in the New Jerusalem, in the created Heavens - not those restricted to the New Earth) will be the Bride and the new church, found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, will be the groom, since, in this New Church, we Gentiles are Christ's actual body - Eph 5:30 -For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. We, in this Church which is Christ's actual Body, Where Christ is the Head, will always be where Christ is, which may be in all of these realms, simultaneously.

Starting in Gen 12 and lasting for 2000 years (to the end of Acts, about 63AD), God was ONLY involved with Israel. During this time, God was finding those who will occupy the New Earth and the New (created) Heavens (the New Jerusalem). Since Israel failed to accept Christ, God set them aside at the very end of Acts, thus starting an all-Gentile 2000 year period, where God is finding those Gentiles who will occupy the uncreated Heaven, God's eternal abode. The Last shall be first, and the first shall be last. By God's Infinite Genius, He is filling both the created and uncreated Heaven(s) and also the New Earth.

What is "the appearing"?

 

[marksman]

Actually @FHII was correct in how he posted Mathew 23:23.

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees and telling them that they tithed on every amount they received but they did not teach the most important things, like compassion for others,,,IOW, the pharisees taught the law but not the spirit of what God wanted. Jesus DID say, however, that the pharisees should have taught being compassionate toward others and keeping the spirit of the law, WHILE not ignoring the tithing.

So it DOES seem that Jesus believed in tithing. But by what Jesus taught, it's also plain that He believed we should be giving with a joyful heart. We must also remember that there was no help from govt facilities and people had to depend on themselves...this was also true of any country before it had social security.

Is some of the burden taken off us?

Mathew 23:23 Jesus said:
23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
24“You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

I stand by what I said, as I rarely speak unless I have done an extensive study of the subject.

 

[marksman]

I just have a feeling you don't have a family to raise or to help financially.
And I'd like to say that God doesn't need money...people do.
You mean 100% is available, in His name, to those in need.

If that is what you feel, then you are wrong. I have a wife of 48 years, two children and 11 grandchildren all of whom love us visiting them because they know that with us comes presents.

 

[marksman]

The 10% isn't for Him because He needs it, but for our benefit: the act of giving reminds us to put the Lord first and not idolize money.

With all due respect, I never said it was.

 

[marksman]

No.N, it was about the Pharisees but directed TO the multitude and disciples. See Matt 23:1-3. Jesus said do what they say but not as they do. Jesus said they were right for tithing but their motives weren't right.

Well, Paul did. And most men of God who are full time men of God need a paycheck. They don't have time for other jobs. They need to sustain themselves, they need travel money and they need operating costs for the building.

Yea... Actually it is. 7 times.

Question: Did Satan offer to give Jesus something?

Answer: Yes, but the wrong way. That was my point.

What amazes me is that I asked to take the emphasis off "tithing" and focus on "giving". Yet, you want to harp on tithing.

One. From verse 13 he was addressing the Scribes and Pharisees. He said "Woe unto you..." meaning "Woe unto you, yes you (Scribes and Pharisees) He could not be addressing the crowd as they were not scribes and Pharisees and were not doing what he was accusing them of.

Two. Paul did not need money because he made tents to support himself and the others traveling with him. The only time he took money was when he was traveling from one place to another and could not make tents. We are all full-time men of God as the Bible only talks about the priesthood of all believers. Paying man a salary to be a professional Christian is not in scripture and was invented by man after the reformation and in the NT there were no buildings to maintain because they met in homes. If you want to do things man's ways and not God's be my guest.

Three. As you have not quoted one single verse, I will stick by my reading of scripture.

Four. Satan did not offer Jesus anything. He was trying to take something from Jesus.

Five. Giving, yet your comments are all about tithing.

 

[amadeus]

My thoughts as well. God gave me 100%, I should at least give 10% back. Money has always been an idol for man (not just in OT times) and giving back helps keep the Lord first.

"But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee." I Chron 29:14

 

[amadeus]

We're like bankers - it's not our money.

But too many it seems to me are embezzlers!

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do you believe that the New Covenant is for us Gentiles today? According to Jer 31:31, the NC is for Israel. Is the Law in your inward parts and in your heart - vs 33? Does all this in vs 34 apply to you and everyone else today?
Jer 31:34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The ONLY purpose of the New Covenant is to enable ISRAEL, ONLY, through the Holy Spirit, to be able to keep the Law and love doing it. Israel will ALWAYS have to keep the Law, except for this present 2000 year Gentile period, where Israel doesn't exist as a nation.

Why do the Gentiles continually try to rob Israel of what has been given ONLY to Israel. The Rapture is another example. We have the Appearing - infinitely better than the rapture and about 500 -1000 years sooner.

Don't Gentiles have to keep the Law?
What is the law, BTW?