Are We Required to Tithe?

[Rollo Tamasi]

What should we read??

All of Paul's letters.
It's there in all of them because he taught it to every church.

 

[Helen]

Imo find out where the temple is now, where is the building iow, and tithe to that!

Agree...and let those who have an ear to hear ...hear.
I also do not tithe or Give to the church system...but to the living Church...
( and to the un-churched when directed by the Lord)

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Agree...and let those who have an ear to hear ...hear.
I also do not tithe or Give to the church system...but to the living Church...

amen!

 

[Enoch111]

I feel that a church could help out but cannot sustain the poor.
It takes a lot of money to sustain and not only HELP.
Persons have a lot of expenses: rent/mortgage, food, clothing, electric, heating, taxes!, etc.

There are two kinds of help: (1) temporary aid as a hand out to meet an immediate need and (2) permanent aid as a hand up to help the poor become self-sufficient through creating opportunities to be productive and generate income, so that those who have been helped can help others, and there is hard work involved on all sides.

And she said, I pray you, let me glean and gather after the reapers among the sheaves: so she came, and hath continued even from the morning until now, that she tarried a little in the house. (Ruth 2:7)

Churches rarely -- if ever -- consider the second kind of help, since it entails a lot more thought and effort on the part of all concerned.

 

[GodsGrace]

All of Paul's letters.
It's there in all of them because he taught it to every church.

Didn't Paul teach that those who can should give to help maintain the poor, the widows and also the missionaries (like him).

Is this different?
That was the church back then, wasn't it?

I do, however, agree with @"ByGrace" and others here that it's good to give directly to those that are in need.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are two kinds of help: (1) temporary aid as a hand out to meet an immediate need and (2) permanent aid as a hand up to help the poor become self-sufficient through creating opportunities to be productive and generate income, so that those who have been helped can help others, and there is hard work involved on all sides.

And she said, I pray you, let me glean and gather after the reapers among the sheaves: so she came, and hath continued even from the morning until now, that she tarried a little in the house. (Ruth 2:7)

Churches rarely -- if ever -- consider the second kind of help, since it entails a lot more thought and effort on the part of all concerned.

We agree.
Good explanation.

 

[Ac28]

Don't Gentiles have to keep the Law?
What is the law, BTW?

The 1st 5 books of the OT, the Torah, are the books of the law. The law was given only to Israel. It was agreed to, by the nation of Israel, in Ex 19:1-8. When Israel agreed to God's rules and essentially said, "I do" in vs 8, it was the 1st Covenant and was when God took Israel as His wife. In the Torah, there are 613 positive and negative commandments given. Those commandments make up the Law. Please take a look at the list.
The Law: All 613 Commandments!

Except for the proselytes, those Gentiles who become Jews, no Gentile was EVER commanded to keep the law - not once. The closest they ever came to it was in Ac 15. Believing Jews complained that, since the Gentiles were sharing some of Israel's blessings, they should keep the law. The big meeting in Acts 15 ended in an agreement that those Gentiles in the Acts Church, who were grafted into Israel and were, therefore, part of Israel's program, would not have to keep the law. Instead, they were given 4 rules they had to keep, in order to continue to receive those few blessings they were getting from Israel. The 4 rules also ended at the end of Acts. During Acts, Gentiles had absolutely no blessings of their own. They were totally tied to Israel. Israel was always the Head and the Gentiles were always the Tail, until they ceased to exist as a separate people at the end of Acts.

Jam 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.!!!!!

Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Still think the Gentiles were given the Law? Do you know of anyone that makes animal sacrifices?

There is no Israel today and hasn't been since they were spiritually blinded in Ac 28:25-27, through the pronouncement of the curse of Isa 6:9-10 by Paul. They were then set aside in Ac 28:28, when the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from them and given to the Gentiles. The Gentiles did not have Jesus Christ during Acts - Eph 2:12. No one has kept the Law since the temple was destroyed in 70AD. Can't keep it without a temple or without animal sacrifices. When Israel can't keep the entire Law, it is impossible that they can be God's people.

Israel was never, from the beginning, able to keep the Law under the first Covenant and they were eventually divorced by God. The ONLY purpose of the New Covenant, which is not in effect today, will be through the Holy Spirit, who will put the Law in the Jew's inward parts and make them love keeping the Law. The gifts of the Spirit given in Acts 2 was a preview of the New Covenant. The Gentile Church today is most certainly NOT a New Covenant Church. If it were, the church members would all be keeping all 613 commandments, including animal sacfificies.

 

[Ac28]

What is "the appearing"?

The "Appearing" in Paul's 7 post-Acts books is when the Church of today is resurrected to the Heavenly Places, as promised only in those 7 books. When Christ first "Appears" there, we will already be there to "Appear" with Him - see Col 3:4 below. The Greek word, "epiphaneia', that is translated "Appearing", appears ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles - 5 times. It will be the 1st mass resurrection, most likely at the end of this 2000 year Gentile period and right before Elijah starts moving things around and setting time back to the 1st century, in preparation for Israel's earthly Kingdom of Heaven. My guess is that the Appearing will happen in 2063, 2070, or 2085

The rapture is a totally different thing. In it, Christ, at his second Coming (parousia), when the 7th trump of Revelation sounds, at the end of the tribulation, descends to near the earth. The Acts church, both Jews and Gentiles, are resurrected and rise to meet Christ in the air. They return to Earth with Him. That's what the Bible says. The Greek word, "parousia", translated "coming", appears twice in Philippians, but, in both cases it refers to Paul's coming, not Christ's.

So, the rapture and the appearing are totally different resurrection events, for 2 different churches, under 2 different dispensations. The rapture is for the all-Israel Acts church, which ceased to exist when Israel was set aside at the end of Acts. It will still occur, though, at the end of the tribulation, just like the Bible says. The Appearing will likely occur in about 45-70 years. No one living during the last 1900 years will go through the rapture. We have an infinitely better resurrection at the Appearing. Also, these things are different because they're spelled different (epiphaneia vs paroisia), as one of my teachers often said.

Actually, the word "appear", in Col 3:4, is phaneroo in the Greek, which means "manifested:, which I like better than "appear". The word "appearing", though, is always the same Greek word, "epiphaneia", as I presented above,

Col 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
1Tim 6:14
That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Tim 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

 

[FHII]

One. From verse 13 he was addressing the Scribes and Pharisees. He said "Woe unto you..." meaning "Woe unto you, yes you (Scribes and Pharisees) He could not be addressing the crowd as they were not scribes and Pharisees and were not doing what he was accusing them of

No, he was addressing the multitude and disciples. He did upbraid the pharisees but it was to teach the disciples how NOT to do it. Its not too different than 1 Tim 5:20 which says rebuke them that sin before everyone, that others may fear.

The bottom line is that Jesus approved of proper tithing. Jesus said back in matt 23:1-3 to fo what they say to do, but not what they actually do. If you want an out then we can note that at that ttimethey were still under the law. All of them; not just the pharisees.

Two. Paul did not need money because he made tents to support himself and the others traveling with him. The only time he took money was when he was traveling from one place to another andcouldd not make tents

Ok. Acts 18:3. Yes Paul made tents. Now where is your scripture thats says he used that to support himself? There isn't any!

If I didn't have any verses that state Paul relied on givers you would have somewhat a point. However, I do! 2 Cor 9 is entirely about this subject and in chapter 10 he says its to preach in regions beyond Greece.

1 Thess 2:9 says Paul preached the gospel so he wouldn't be chargable to them.

Phillipeans 4 says they "communicated" with Paul by giving to supply his necessities. And in Gal 6:6 Paul says let him that is taught communicate (give) with him that teacheth in all good things.

So there are plenty of verses that show Paul lived and traveled off the offerings. You have but one verse that says he was a tentmaker and none that say thats where he got his travel and living expenses from.

Three. As you have not quoted one single verse, I will stick by my reading of scripture.

Well... In post #9 of this thread I referenced Gen 14:20, Gal 3:15-17, Matt 23:23, 2 Cor 9:7, Luke 4:6 and Cor 8:9.

In post #41 I referenced Matt 23:1-3 and corrected your assertation that "tithe" isn't in the NT by saying it was at least 7 times. That would be Mat 23:23, Luke 11:42, 18:12, Heb 7:5,6, 8 and 9. That's a total of 18 verses and I couldve quoted more!

You, on the other hand have referenced Matt 23:23 (because I brought it up), matt 23:13 and Acts 18:3. That's 3 verses.

So tell me again how i haven't quoted one single scripture.

Four. Satan did not offer Jesus anything. He was trying to take something from Jesus.

Luke 4:6 KJV
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.


You are right in that Satan was tring to take something. He failed... My point is that he did try to give Jesus something. Its right there in bold print.

Whats worse is that you are missing the important point here. There are 3 parties here: God, Satan and us. God's a giver. We can give and Satan can't give. He tried but he isn't a giver.

Five. Giving, yet your comments are all about tithing.

Here is something I wrote in post #9:

"I know the talking points and debating ooints against these verses, but I won't go any farther in defending tithing, though I could. What I would like to focus on is the simple act of giving. "

The only reason we are discussing tithing is because you picked that ball up. I have one or two other discussions going on with other people in this thread, and we are talking about giving. You are the only one diacussing tithing with me.

 

[FHII]

I feel that a church could help out but cannot sustain the poor.
It takes a lot o

I absolutely agree. I would add that the church DOES (not "could") help the poor. Catholics, Protestants... Even Marksman have helped the poor. No its not enough and even Jesus noted this when he said the poor you will have always (matt 26:11). There is something intersting about that point which I hope to discuss with you later.

Mat 11:5 says the poor have the gospel preached to them. This is the greatest thing you can give to the poor. There is a deeper spiritual meaning (blessed are the poor in spirit, not in dollars). But still the good news can help the earthly needs.

 

[Truth]

Putting a figure on it is man's idea and under the law. As I read scripture the only gift that we should give God is ALL. However much God has blessed me, all of it is available to him. I don't talk in terms of percentages except one. 100%. That means I don't have to worry about what I give as I leave that to the Holy Spirit to decide and tell me.

On one occasion I had news that a Christian Village in India had all their houses destroyed by Hindus and they were living under tarpaulins on the street. The mission organisation put out a request for funds to build houses for them. They told us how much each house would cost and I knew that God wanted me to fund the cost of a house for one of the families made homeless.

So I sent the money to them, knowing that they were going to be living in their own home again. If I had sent them a tenth, they might still be living on the street.

The Premise of giving IS, when there is someone in need, you put forth you hand, and only withdraw it when the need is met! As you did a complete house!

 

[Truth]

Numbers 18:26
26“Moreover, you shall speak to the Levites and say to them, ‘When you take from the sons of Israel the tithe which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then you shall present an offering from it to the LORD, a tithe of the tithe."

The Levitt's Had no inheritance of the Land! Their inheritance was Serving God, in His Temple. So yes the Tithe of the Tithe, was a Ceremonial instruction!
Take the time to read Deuteronomy 14:22-29 you will see that there is more to the Tithe than just to Levitt.

 

[Enoch111]

The bottom line is that Jesus approved of proper tithing.

As long as we keep in mind that the Old Covenant was in effect until the crucifixion of Christ. Therefore every law in the Old Covenant was sacrosanct for Christ (who gave those laws in the first place) including the laws of tithing. But He also derided the Pharisees for tithing mint, cumin, and others herbs, while neglecting the weightier matters of the Law.

On the other hand, Jesus was looking well beyond the Old Covenant when He commended the poor widow who gave her all. He was laying the foundation for Christian giving.

 

[bbyrd009]

Putting a figure on it is man's idea and under the law. As I read scripture the only gift that we should give God is ALL. However much God has blessed me, all of it is available to him. I don't talk in terms of percentages except one. 100%. That means I don't have to worry about what I give as I leave that to the Holy Spirit to decide and tell me.

On one occasion I had news that a Christian Village in India had all their houses destroyed by Hindus and they were living under tarpaulins on the street. The mission organisation put out a request for funds to build houses for them. They told us how much each house would cost and I knew that God wanted me to fund the cost of a house for one of the families made homeless.

So I sent the money to them, knowing that they were going to be living in their own home again. If I had sent them a tenth, they might still be living on the street.

ends up being a cup that one cannot empty, huh?
Did you have to learn the lesson of Ananias and Saphyra the hard way, or no?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I think that you will find that the word charity here means love. It has nothing at all to do with money.

Yes but the English word for love is or can mean anything, love of money ? love of want, love of foolish desires etc sadly and that's a big problem nowadays that the word Love can be bastardised so easy.
Like nowadays I hear many fools claim love is love, wrong ! two wrongs do not make a right.

True Love is Charity of the soul.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Are We Required to Tithe?

only if you feel good doing so--

in my view of things -

Rubbish !

I gave $50 to a stranger who wanted a place to stay the night, he may of spent it on drugs I thought later, so I never give money ever again like that and now I do not give money to charity's because I have looked into what such truly do and what I found out was not impressive at all.
A mate gave his inheritance to a charity as well and I looked into it and what I found out was, that they had a lovely facade but such is just a great big con job and there is nothing truly worthy about them at all, in fact how it's run is a disgrace and totally open to corruption.

So many of the charity's are a joke, 10c out of the dollar would be lucky to make it to the needy.

One has to be carful with what you give to or give as in regards to or even Vote for or listen to, because the Devil is in the detail and one should be awake to that, or it could blight you in the end.

 

[tooldtocare]

So many of the charity's are a joke, 10c out of the dollar would be lucky to make it to the needy.

I would rather give 10c to the needy rather than nothing. But if you don't want to give, please do not make excuses for it, just don't give and then shut up about it.

just a suggestion
no malice intended or implied

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Why do you believe that the New Covenant is for us Gentiles today? According to Jer 31:31, the NC is for Israel. Is the Law in your inward parts and in your heart - vs 33? Does all this in vs 34 apply to you and everyone else today?
Jer 31:34
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The ONLY purpose of the New Covenant is to enable ISRAEL, ONLY, through the Holy Spirit, to be able to keep the Law and love doing it. Israel will ALWAYS have to keep the Law, except for this present 2000 year Gentile period, where Israel doesn't exist as a nation.

Why do the Gentiles continually try to rob Israel of what has been given ONLY to Israel. The Rapture is another example. We have the Appearing - infinitely better than the rapture and about 500 -1000 years sooner.

Jesus Christ is the King of Israel and all the truly worthy Jews like Nathaniel know who Jesus truly is and they abide in him and they are what's Called True Christians, they are Born Again, anyone who claims anything about so called Jews being Israel is of Satan in fact, because they are rejecting Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus Christ is the King of Israel, so it some moronic Satanist wants to try push such deceptions, is surely Satanic, one of Satan and the word Satan represents the one who leads the whole world astray.

Why would anyone try to deceive Christians that that so called Jews are worthy of anything, they are not worthy at all and no one is worthy regardless until one come to Jesus Christ and gets Born Again, so apart from that they are all worthy of Hell, because the Truth is not in them at all and they are all bastards, because they do not have a heavenly Father, but are of their Father of lies as Jesus said this is so.

A true Christian does not follow the works of any Man and knows that such are not to be trusted at all. if you put your faith and trust in man you will fail every time, do not look for you salvation in any man or you will be under a deception. Jesus Christ is the only way and it's all about him as he is the Holy Spirit and no one comes to the Father but by Him.

The true Israelites always abided in God and they know who Jesus Is, as Holy Moses said they would.

No man can cut the mustard unless the Holy Spirit is within him as to abiding in God.

 

[FHII]

If you are of the belief that charity as noted in 1 Cor 13 means giving to the poor, you have a problem.

The problem is that Paul spoke of giving to to poor in thay chapter (verse 3). He said the even if he gave to the poor and had not charity, it didn't profit him.

So clearly Paul wasn't talking about giving to the poor when he spoke of "charity".

Marksman suggested that charity means "love" and I don't have a problem with that as long as we understand what love is.

In verse 6 Paul says we shouldn't rejoice in iniquity, but in truth. Perhaps Paul was a scatter brain... But if not he saw a connection between "charity" and truth.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I would rather give 10c to the needy rather than nothing. But if you don't want to give, please do not make excuses for it, just don't give and then shut up about it.

just a suggestion
no malice intended or implied

WADR One must take head to what it is they do you know or one maybe giving cred to foolishness or worse.
Charity's like Band Aid comes to mind, yes I was awake to that from the beginning that it was not above board, lucky non of my money went to kill the good Christian negroes, but I would say that they who did give to that charity should repent of there hand...[removed]