Are you catholic?

[BreadOfLife]

"THEIR" vain repetitious prayer manure?
No.
It's the "vain repetition" of the one doing it, and TO whom.
Repeating over and over is "IN VAIN" to something other than the Thee God Almighty
And Thee God Almighty HEARS your petition FOR something the FIRST TIME!
And Exalting Thee God, is not ASKING Thee God for anything.
"To" their gods"....
Matt 6:7
..When ye pray, use NOT vain repetitions..
Luke 11:2
..When ye pray, say Our Father...
Rosary....59 Beads
6 beads, "REPEAT", 6 TIMES Our Father.
53 beads, "REPEAT", 53 TIMES Mary.
Jesus ~ pray Our Father once.
Jesus ~ Mary, none.
From: Our Lord, Our God, His Spirit
To: His Father in Heaven.
God hears.
Mary, not mentioned.
Imploring God's mercy.
Mary, not mentioned.
Holy Lord exalted
Holy God exalted
Holy Almighty exalted
Mary? Not mentioned.
Statement; God's love forever.
Mary? Not mentioned.
Teaching HOW TO exalt the Lord, is not a prayer. It's teaching.
Mary? Not mentioned.
WHEN ye pray, use not vain repetitions.
WHEN ye pray, say Our Father...
Catholic Rosary prayer beads...
Our Father, Our Father, Our Father,
Our Father, Our Father, Our Father...
Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary,
Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary,
Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary,
Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary,
Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary,
Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary,
Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary,
Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary
Scripture teaches HOW TO pray.
Catholics teach WHAT TO pray.
And not everyone agrees with Catholic teaching.
You can defend Catholic teaching, but it does not make you right and everyone else wrong as you like to pretend.

Another bizarre and verbose rant.
What a surprise . . .

You continue to condemn repetitious prayer – EVEN when Scripture tells us that this is PLEASING to God - and that Jesus (God Himself) prayed I this manner.

YOU are a CLASSIC example of what Peter was talking about when he wrote:

2 Pet. 3:16
He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people twist, as they do the other Scriptures, to their OWN destruction.

Ummmmm, IF repetitious prayer is “wrong” – then WHY haven’t you refuted the verses I gave you??

- In Matt. 26:44, our Lord himself prayed the exact same prayer THREE times in the Garden of Gethsemane after the Last Supper.

- In the Parable of the Determined Widow in Luke 18:-87, Jesus emphatically states that God hears those who keep petitioning him in sincere faith: “Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night? Will he be slow to answer them? I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily.”

- In Luke 18:13, the tax collector kept beating his breast and repeating, “God be merciful to me, a sinner.”
This was pleasing to God.

We see in Rev. 4:8 that the angels pray the SAME prayer day and night without ceasing in the presence of almighty God, “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.”

- Psalm 136 goes on for 26 verses in a row, repeating the exact same prayer, “God's love endures forever”.

- Similarly, in Dan. 3:56-88 we read the exact same prayer for 32 verses, which is “bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever.” This is FAR more repetitious than a decade of the Rosary.

 

[GodsGrace]

What YOU have just stated is a complete and total lie.
First of all - I have NEVER called anybody on this forum a "Liar", so stop bearing false witness.

Secondly - Rollo has told MANY lies.
Here are just a few of Rollo’s lies – from THIS thread alone . . .
“When the first Caesar took over they controlled every person and every religion and they're still trying to do that today”

“romanists (which represent the catholic church based at the Vatican) are not really Christian.”

“No one preaches salvation through Jesus, instead, they preach salvation through Mary and the saints.”

“romanist in general are any of those aliens that called themselves catholics in a roman supported church “

“romanist churches are everywhere and you've been in plenty and they teach you to anethema protestants”

EVERY one of these comments is a LIE - not an "opinion" - so I'm not sure why YOU say that he hasn't lied . . .

THEY ARE NOT LIES IF HE BELIEVES THEM TO BE TRUE.


************************************************
noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intentto deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
Synonyms: prevarication, falsification.
Antonyms: truth.
2.
something intended or serving to convey afalse impression; imposture:
His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.
4.
the charge or accusation of telling a lie:
He flung the lie back at his accusers.
verb (used without object), lied, lying.
5.
to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, aswith intent to deceive.
Synonyms: prevaricate, fib.
6.
to express what is false; convey a falseimpression.
verb (used with object), lied, lying.
7.
to bring about or affect by lying (often usedreflexively):
to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed tolying his way out of difficulties.


adjective
2.
telling or containing lies; deliberatelyuntruthful; deceitful; false:
a lying report.
Synonyms: deceptive, misleading, mendacious, fallacious; sham, counterfeit.
Antonyms: true, candid, actual, correct, accurate, trustworthy.

*****************************************************


To be lying, one must KNOWINGLY MAKE A FALSE STATEMENT.
LEARN IT!

 

[Taken]

Sooooo, why don't you let Rollo speak for himself??

He already did speak for himself. I believe I understood him, and "HE" can correct me if I am in error.

He did leave his faith for a partial truth. Then he took that partial truth, came to this forum and began to post a litany of lies. How is that "growing" and "exalting"?? It's nothing but breaking God's Commandment against bearing FALSE witness.

Why are YOU speaking FOR Rollo?
I didn't see him saying he left "his faith".
He left a Church's indoctrination, and turned himself to Jesus.
Which BTW, IS the Truth!

Anyway, small children and babies aren't "wise".

No kidding.

Knowledge

is one thing. Wisdom is the application of knowledge based on good judgement and experience.

Yes that is the method for a carnal mind regarding an earthly man.

That is not the method for a man with a quickened spirit, regarding spiritual things.

 

[Taken]

You continue to condemn repetitious prayer – EVEN when Scripture tells us that this is PLEASING to God - and that Jesus (God Himself) prayed I this manner.

Get a CLUE....VAIN REPETITION...

Oh Mary, Oh Mary, Oh Mary, Oh saint, Oh saint, Oh saint, Oh Baal, Oh Baal, Oh Baal,
Oh, Oh, Oh..........IT IS WORTHLESS and VAIN, without merit to PRAY TO, what is NOT the Father!!!!!

YOU are

VOID of Spiritual understanding.

- In Matt. 26:44, our Lord himself prayed the exact same prayer THREE times in the Garden of Gethsemane after the Last Supper.

TO His Father
TO His Father
TO His Father

DUH! Not in VAIN to Mary, to saints, to Baal!!

- In the

Parable of the Determined Widow in Luke 18:-87, Jesus emphatically states that God hears those who keep petitioning him in sincere faith: “Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night? Will he be slow to answer them? I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily.”

Yet again....
TO God....FROM HIS CHOSEN!!

- In Luke 18:13, the tax collector kept beating his breast and repeating, “God be merciful to me, a sinner.”
This was pleasing to God.

Yet again....
TO God...

We see in Rev. 4:8 that the angels pray the SAME prayer day and night without ceasing in the presence of almighty God, “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.”

Yet again....
TO God...

- Psalm 136 goes on for 26 verses in a row, repeating the exact same prayer, “God's love endures forever”.

Exalting God...

- Similarly, in

Dan. 3:56-88 we read the exact same prayer for 32 verses, which is “bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever.” This is FAR more repetitious than a decade of the Rosary.

The Rosary....
59 beads
53................."TO" Mary....in VAIN repetition!

Post some Scriptures that ACTUALLY APPLY to teaching to PRAYING IN VAIN, which IS TO PRAY TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN God the Father!

 

[BreadOfLife]

THEY ARE NOT LIES IF HE BELIEVES THEM TO BE TRUE.

************************************************
noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intentto deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
Synonyms: prevarication, falsification.
Antonyms: truth.
2.
something intended or serving to convey afalse impression; imposture:
His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.
4.
the charge or accusation of telling a lie:
He flung the lie back at his accusers.
verb (used without object), lied, lying.
5.
to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, aswith intent to deceive.
Synonyms: prevaricate, fib.
6.
to express what is false; convey a falseimpression.
verb (used with object), lied, lying.
7.
to bring about or affect by lying (often usedreflexively):
to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed tolying his way out of difficulties.
adjective
2.
telling or containing lies; deliberatelyuntruthful; deceitful; false:
a lying report.
Synonyms: deceptive, misleading, mendacious, fallacious; sham, counterfeit.
Antonyms: true, candid, actual, correct, accurate, trustworthy.
*****************************************************
To be lying, one must KNOWINGLY MAKE A FALSE STATEMENT.
LEARN IT!

NO GG - he doesn't get a pass because he claims that he USED to be a Catholic for many years.
What he is espousing are flat-out LIES.

He claims that he "knew" the Catholic Church that he left.
He claims that he was NOT ignorant of what the Church taught so, therefore, he is lying.

If a lifelong Protestant said the same things he said, their culpability would be lessened because they are truly clueless.
NOT so for Rollo . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why are YOU speaking FOR Rollo?
I didn't see him saying he left "his faith".
He left a Church's indoctrination, and turned himself to Jesus.
Which BTW, IS the Truth!

I'm not speaking "for" him - I'm refuting him.
BIG difference.

No kidding.

Then why would you make such a stupid claim??

Yes that is the method for a carnal mind regarding an earthly man.
That is not the method for a man with a quickened spirit, regarding spiritual things.

No - wisdom is wisdom - no matter how YOU try to pervert it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Get a CLUE....VAIN REPETITION...
Oh Mary, Oh Mary, Oh Mary, Oh saint, Oh saint, Oh saint, Oh Baal, Oh Baal, Oh Baal,
Oh, Oh, Oh..........IT IS WORTHLESS and VAIN, without merit to PRAY TO, what is NOT the Father!!!!!

And apparently YOU don’t have a clue as to what “Vain” means.

It means “USELESS”. Show me where the Bible says that it is “USELESS” to ask fellow members of the Body of Christ to pray for us.
Chapter and verse, please . . .

TO His Father
TO His Father
TO His Father
DUH! Not in VAIN to Mary, to saints, to Baal!!

Praying to a false god like Baal is in ”Vain” (see the definition above).

Yet again....
TO God....FROM HIS CHOSEN!!
Yet again....
TO God...
Exalting God...

Ahhh – but YOU said that repetitious prayer was wrong, so you’re talking out of BOTH sides of your mouth.
More of your hypocrisy . . .

The Rosary....
59 beads
53................."TO" Mary....in VAIN repetition!
Post some Scriptures that ACTUALLY APPLY to teaching to PRAYING IN VAIN, which IS TO PRAY TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN God the Father!

Like I said before - show me where the Bible forbids us to ask fellow members of the Church to PRAY FOR us. Do that and I’ll leave the Catholic Church today and join YOUR sect.

Chapter and verse, please . . .

 

[Taken]

go to Jesus through Mary
going "to Jesus through Mary"
through Mary
"through Mary"
go to Jesus through Mary
go to Jesus through Mary
going to Jesus through Mary
"To Jesus through Mary"

"Now it may be said that Mary is just another human being and so it would be wrong to put our trust in her or to rely on her to come to Jesus."

When we take Mary for our companion and guide we are choosing a fellow creature but one who is the Mother of God, untainted by Original Sin, the Woman clothed with the Heavenly Sun, the Spouse of the Spirit through whom we receive the grace won by her Son.

she is the only human person to..

"To Jesus through Mary"

To reject this great scriptural insight is really a kind of regress, a fall from grace.

praying to Mary

she is our Mother,

she is a Mother who leads us to God

She is the Mother who draws us closer to the God

Embracing Mary as Mother

knowing Mary is immeasurably more important than knowing about Mary

since she takes us right to Jesus

Jesus Through Mary is the gateway to a personal relationship with Mary that deepens and consolidates our relationship with Jesus.

ONE POST, and a revealing indoctrination method of the Catholic teaching MO.

Yipes!
A person unable to READ for themselves, could surely believe, the Word of God REPEATEDLY, said Mary is THEE go to person WHOM they MUST go "THROUGH" TO CALL on the Lord Jesus.

Rom 10:13
For whoseoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Cor 1:2
..call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

But IF you're Catholic....go TO Jesus...
"Through" Mary.....as taught....hummm.
In Scripture?...No in Catholic doctrine.

Weird.

 

[Taken]

I'm not speaking "for" him - I'm refuting him.
BIG difference.

Then why would you make such a stupid claim??

No - wisdom is wisdom - no matter how YOU try to pervert it.

LOL...

 

[Taken]

And apparently YOU don’t have a clue as to what “Vain” means.

It means “USELESS”. Show me where the Bible says that it is “USELESS” to ask fellow members of the Body of Christ to pray for us.
Chapter and verse, please . . .

Praying to a false god like Baal is in ”Vain” (see the definition above).

Ahhh – but YOU said that repetitious prayer was wrong, so you’re talking out of BOTH sides of your mouth.
More of your hypocrisy . . .

Like I said before - show me where the Bible forbids us to ask fellow members of the Church to PRAY FOR us. Do that and I’ll leave the Catholic Church today and join YOUR sect.

Chapter and verse, please . . .

Your babbling on and on is moot.

Vain repetitious prayer was already established as the point.

Repetitious praying to other than God is in vain.

Catholics pray TO Mary....you make her YOUR GOD....
Repeated prayers TO Mary....are in Vain.

Scripture teaches to Pray TO "your" God.

Nothing unbiblical about asking another to pray FOR a person. Hopefully the one asking Knows they will be praying TO God, and not some dead person who can not answer their prayers.

 

[GodsGrace]

NO GG - he doesn't get a pass because he claims that he USED to be a Catholic for many years.
What he is espousing are flat-out LIES.

He claims that he "knew" the Catholic Church that he left.
He claims that he was NOT ignorant of what the Church taught so, therefore, he is lying.

If a lifelong Protestant said the same things he said, their culpability would be lessened because they are truly clueless.
NOT so for Rollo . .

You know BoL,
I don't know how old you are but let me tell you this:

As you know, I was also Catholic. I have nothing against the Catholic church.
It had nothing for me when I got to know Jesus, but I've let that go.
I taught catechism for 6 years over here. I prepared my own lessons because that's how it was done a few years ago. I taught everything that had to be taught, including the Mass, the parts thereof, the Catholic seasons with the colors the priests wear, Confession and everything else. I spent 5 minutes on purgatory because kids are afraid of it and I don't believe it exists anymore. I have good relationships with at least 3 priests here and they know how I feel about everything, nothing is hidden. I've discussed purgatory with two of them.

Why do I tell you this? So you understand that I know what I'm talking about when I tell you that the catholic church has changed...for the better. It was horrible when I attended as a child. Rollo came out of that church. The difference is that he never went back so he doesn't know how it's changed. He still would not like it however.

Because someone does not agree with you or is saying things that are not true to you, does not make that person a liar. You've called everyone on this forum a liar except ByGrace. You like her. Nice. Try to like more people and treat them in a way that would make Jesus proud of you.

 

[Taken]

NO GG - he doesn't get a pass because he claims that he USED to be a Catholic for many years.
What he is espousing are flat-out LIES.

He claims that he "knew" the Catholic Church that he left.
He claims that he was NOT ignorant of what the Church taught so, therefore, he is lying.

According to you.

According to nearly everyone of your posts...
You speak for others what they did not say, which is lying.

Better go repeatedly pray to Mary your Queen and intercessory and see if she will ask Jesus to forgive you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Taken,
It's the priest and confession for forgiveness, not Mary !

Now BoL is going to scold me because it's not the priest that forgives but God, the priest just proclaims it.

Great. So why do we need someone to proclaim it? If God is doing the forgiving, asking God would seem to be sufficient, no?

Oh. And he'll say that it's good for us to face our sins. Well, we face them even when we tell God how sorry we are.

I think I'm due to be called a liar again!

@Taken

 

[Taken]

You know BoL,
I don't know how old you are but let me tell you this:

As you know, I was also Catholic. I have nothing against the Catholic church.
It had nothing for me when I got to know Jesus, but I've let that go.
I taught catechism for 6 years over here. I prepared my own lessons because that's how it was done a few years ago. I taught everything that had to be taught, including the Mass, the parts thereof, the Catholic seasons with the colors the priests wear, Confession and everything else. I spent 5 minutes on purgatory because kids are afraid of it and I don't believe it exists anymore. I have good relationships with at least 3 priests here and they know how I feel about everything, nothing is hidden. I've discussed purgatory with two of them.

Why do I tell you this? So you understand that I know what I'm talking about when I tell you that the catholic church has changed...for the better. It was horrible when I attended as a child. Rollo came out of that church. The difference is that he never went back so he doesn't know how it's changed. He still would not like it however.

Because someone does not agree with you or is saying things that are not true to you, does not make that person a liar. You've called everyone on this forum a liar except ByGrace. You like her. Nice. Try to like more people and treat them in a way that would make Jesus proud of you.

What did your teaching materials consist of?
Thanks,

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Taken,
It's the priest and confession for forgiveness, not Mary !
Now BoL is going to scold me because it's not the priest that forgives but God, the priest just proclaims it.

Great. So why do we need someone to proclaim it? If God is doing the forgiving, asking God would seem to be sufficient, no?
Oh. And he'll say that it's good for us to face our sins. Well, we face them even when we tell God how sorry we are.
I think I'm due to be called a liar again!
@Taken

In response to your first statement in RED - the priest forgives the sin IN PERSONA CHRISTI (in the person of Christ).
This is exactly what Paul says in 2 Cor. 2:10.

To answer your question . . .
John 20:21-23
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

If that bothers you - complain to Jesus - not the Church . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

What did your teaching materials consist of?
Thanks,

God Bless,
Taken

The bible
A small pamphlet that explained the Mass
Stuff from the internet that I liked for: Communion, Confession
A notebook
We did some arts and crafts for Easter and Christmas

I stressed how much Jesus loves them and spent time making Him real...
Like, for instance, what was Nazareth like, geography of Israel, etc.

The church supplied catechism books but they were so washed down that none of the catechists really liked them so the priest agreed not to use them.

 

[Taken]

Taken,
It's the priest and confession for forgiveness, not Mary !

Now BoL is going to scold me because it's not the priest that forgives but God, the priest just proclaims it.

Great. So why do we need someone to proclaim it? If God is doing the forgiving, asking God would seem to be sufficient, no?

Oh. And he'll say that it's good for us to face our sins. Well, we face them even when we tell God how sorry we are.

I think I'm due to be called a liar again!

@Taken

Well...that does not make you unique...lol....he pretty much calls everyone liar, while he is making up lies....

So a man delcares he wants to make a confession...

And enters a little booth, with a speaking divider, and who sits on the other side?

A man they call "Father".

And the man say to his "Father"...

Father forgive me for I have sinned?

Blah blah, list of sins.

And the mans "Father", announces the man IS forgiven.

And then what? His Father tells him to go pray to Mary...?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

In response to your first statement in RED - the priest forgives the sin IN PERSONA CHRISTI (in the person of Christ).
This is exactly what Paul says in 2 Cor. 2:10.

To answer your question . . .
John 20:21-23
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

If that bothers you - complain to Jesus - not the Church . . .

Jesus breathed on the apostles and gave them the authority to forgive sins.
Jesus isn't breathing on anyone anymore. Please don't bring up the placing of the bishops hands on new priests to give them the Holy Spirit.

If you notice, this seems like a really important verse. John, who had been with Jesus from the beginning, explaining how Jesus gave them the authority to forgive sin. Let me ask you this: If it was so important that for confession of sins we had to confess to a man, why didn't John and the other writers make a point of this?
Why does James say to confess our sins to one another?
James 5:6

Why does God need a man, acting in the place of Jesus, to proclaim that a man's sins are forgiven? Can't God do this by Himself?

 

[BreadOfLife]

You know BoL,
I don't know how old you are but let me tell you this:

As you know, I was also Catholic. I have nothing against the Catholic church.
It had nothing for me when I got to know Jesus, but I've let that go.
I taught catechism for 6 years over here. I prepared my own lessons because that's how it was done a few years ago. I taught everything that had to be taught, including the Mass, the parts thereof, the Catholic seasons with the colors the priests wear, Confession and everything else. I spent 5 minutes on purgatory because kids are afraid of it and I don't believe it exists anymore. I have good relationships with at least 3 priests here and they know how I feel about everything, nothing is hidden. I've discussed purgatory with two of them.

Why do I tell you this? So you understand that I know what I'm talking about when I tell you that the catholic church has changed...for the better. It was horrible when I attended as a child. Rollo came out of that church. The difference is that he never went back so he doesn't know how it's changed. He still would not like it however.

Because someone does not agree with you or is saying things that are not true to you, does not make that person a liar. You've called everyone on this forum a liar except ByGrace. You like her. Nice. Try to like more people and treat them in a way that would make Jesus proud of you.

I've know PLENTY of lay people who taught Catechism who were as wrong as you are, so that doesn't impress me.

As to your 2nd comment in RED - I've never called ANYBODY here a "liar" so YOU don't have to keep lying about that. It's like a sickness with you. I will leave this forum today if you can give me an example of that.

As for Rollo - like I said - he doesn't get a pass because the things he has lied about are NOT things that have "changed" in the Church.
The Church NEVER taught the worship of Mary and the saints. this is nothing but a big fat lie. For you to defend this kind of lie is just as bad . . .

 

[Taken]

In response to your first statement in RED - the priest forgives the sin IN PERSONA CHRISTI (in the person of Christ).
This is exactly what Paul says in 2 Cor. 2:10.

To answer your question . . .
John 20:21-23
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained."

If that bothers you - complain to Jesus - not the Church . . .

I have no issue with what Jesus did.
But your breath....eh! Flows forth with your corrupt words.