Are You Dead to Self?

[BlessedPeace]

I believe the worldly self with our humanist carnal priorities died when we were born again in Christ.

Now we are indwelt with Holy Spirit. Self is now a reborn dwelling place of God.

Reborn,born again,new born. And like any newborn human it takes time to learn how to understand and communicate in this family. Father and the reborn son or daughter of God.

It's a new consciousness. And we shall never be dead again. Thank you Jesus.

 

[Ritajanice]

Reborn,born again,new born. And like any newborn human it takes time to learn how to understand and communicate in this family. Father and the reborn son or daughter of God.

That is so true,Sis, it has taken many years to understand that the Living Holy Spirit communicates with my spirit and conscience,at one time, it used to me telling the Holy Spirit what to do, I had all these plans....none worked out, then I came to realise that God has a plan for my life.

He now leads the way, I can see his wonderful plan at work in my life, I’m not saying I don’t have trials and tribulations along the way, ..I just hand everything over to him....xxx

Even though everything is in Gods written word ....I have always had to have the Living Holy Spirit bring Gods written word Alive in my heart.and bring Gods written word to my understanding.

I was Born Again by the Living Holy Spirit.

I learn through His Living Spirit who witnesses Gods truth to my heart/ conscience. has been like that from the evening I became Born Again.

Then what I hear from the Living Holy Spirit is always checked with His written word, as you know Gods Living witness the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict His written word.xxx

I am Honoured and privileged that I know God in my heart via His Living Holy Spirit...I Love talking to Him throughout the day, I know he’s listening.....I tell Him everything....he probably thinks at times, I’ve got a right one here, hehehehe. yet, He NEVER stops Loving me in my heart, putty in His hands I am,xxx

He can use me to Glorify His Name, witness of His Almighty Power, which is beyond my comprehension, and forever Glorifying His Son, who is seated at His right hand....oh my I can’t wait to meet Him so I can see Him in His Full Glory and Splendour....” mind blowing “!

 

[BlessedPeace]

That is so true,Sis, it has taken many years to understand that the Living Holy Spirit communicates with my spirit and conscience,at one time, it used to me telling the Holy Spirit what to do, I had all these plans....none worked out, then I came to realise that God has a plan for my life.

He now leads the way, I can see his wonderful plan at work in my life, I’m not saying I don’t have trials and tribulations along the way, ..I just hand everything over to him....xxx

Even though everything is in Gods written word ....I have always had to have the Living Holy Spirit bring Gods written word Alive in my heart.and bring Gods written word to my understanding.

I was Born Again by the Living Holy Spirit.

I learn through His Living Spirit who witnesses Gods truth to my heart/ conscience. has been like that from the evening I became Born Again.

Then what I hear from the Living Holy Spirit is always checked with His written word, as you know Gods Living witness the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict His written word.xxx

I am Honoured and privileged that I know God in my heart via His Living Holy Spirit...I Love talking to Him throughout the day, I know he’s listening.....I tell Him everything....he probably thinks at times, I’ve got a right one here, hehehehe. yet, He NEVER stops Loving me in my heart, putty in His hands I am,xxx

He can use me to Glorify His Name, witness of His Almighty Power, which is beyond my comprehension, and forever Glorifying His Son, who is seated at His right hand....oh my I can’t wait to meet Him so I can see Him in His Full Glory and Splendour....” mind blowing “!

It's that old truism. Let go and let God.

Like you,when I'd make plans contrary to what God had in mind they'd fail.
When I relaxed and trusted God things would fall into place like a puzzle coming together so I could see the big picture.

It's fascinating to watch God weave my life thread by thread. And I refer to thread because at times I could see how the unfolding forward actually linked to things in my past.

 

[Ritajanice]

It's that old truism. Let go and let God.

Like you,when I'd make plans contrary to what God had in mind they'd fail.
When I relaxed and trusted God things would fall into place like a puzzle coming together so I could see the big picture.

It's fascinating to watch God weave my life thread by thread. And I refer to thread because at times I could see how the unfolding forward actually linked to things in my past.

Exactly!!!..xxx Amen!

 

[Ritajanice]

Ephesians 3:16 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, New Living Translation I pray that from his glorious, unlimited resources he will empower you with inner strength through his Spirit. English Standard Version that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, Berean Standard Bible I ask that out of the riches of His glory He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being

 

[Peterlag]

Making no sense to you does not surprise me Peter. I would say the logic and reason you employ are so encased in self, subjectivity and objectivity are a blur to/ for you.

You attack the Scripture that I write about like the Jews attacked Jesus when he spoke about the Scriptures. He referred to them as of the devil. I think the same of you.

 

[Ritajanice]

Epi, I know you will understand these words,xx

The human heart can only know itself....

 

[Episkopos]

Epi, I know you will understand these words,xx

The human heart can only know itself....

But can it? Without something to compare itself with?

 

[Hepzibah]

Epi I am sure you know and perhaps some others here, that I am in full agreement with the ideas of crucified with Christ or in other words, second blessing holiness (or the higher walk as epi calls it).

However once we get down to the details, I do not agree with the popular idea that it means 'death to self'. In fact. that idea is from philosophy as found in eastern religions like Buddhism, who are told that there is no self, it is a construct of our minds and we should search for 'no self' to achieve happiness in this life.

This site explains it:

Anātman, the Buddhist Doctrine of No-Self: Why ‘You’ Do Not Really Exist | Philosophy Break

Often misunderstood as denying personhood, the Buddhist doctrine of no-self (anātman) simply aims to deflate the grasping ego. By seeing ourselves for what we really are — bundles of ever-changing processes — we can undermine anxiety, and live more peaceful lives.

philosophybreak.com

It might seem to be nothing important, but we must note that scripture does not confirm it. Rather scripture says that we must DENY ourselves, and the flesh or old man should be crucified. Old man is not self.

“Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires” (Galatians 5:24).

And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke 9:23

And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. John 12:24

There is no verse that says it is self that is to die. Self is neutral and contains the will. It serves something or someone. Self is given a new master when flesh has been crucified. As Christianity is now being invaded on all sides and poisoned within, we much be doubly sure we follow what scripture says.

Eastern thoughts have been coming into the church for a long time and if we suddenly get Christians to be like Buddhists and longing for annihilation, what other points will they join on? It is a big deal which will perhaps increase as time goes on towards the one worlld religion..

 

[Ritajanice]

But can it? Without something to compare itself with?

Very true, Epi, thank you,xx

Who can know their heart, without the Living witness the Living Holy Spirit?

What I’m trying to say is, without receiving the Spirit of Christ ,into our heart we don’t know just how depraved we were/ are....imo.

The human heart is all about self, me,me,me,me,...whereas it should be all about Jesus, certainly if one has been Born Of The Spirit....it is no longe I who live but Christ who lives in me.

 

[Hepzibah]

Another point is that, we were crucified with Christ 2.000 years ago. Our old man, that is to say, the life of Adam, is already there, but in order to actuate that fact, we must 'reckon' it. That is to say we must give our consent to it and that usually comes when we have been dealt with in the 'wilderness' and brought to naught, seeing that ourselves in the flesh is cursed and worth nothing. As long as we have any fleshy desires, we will not be ready for the 'reckoning'.

So it is not a case of working towards crucifying the flesh (and certainly not self) but walking in that fact, that is to say, believing that we have been delivered from sin, not only as a position but as a reality. To step out in faith.

If we say we cannot stop sinning then we never will.

 

[Episkopos]

Epi I am sure you know and perhaps some others here, that I am in full agreement with the ideas of crucified with Christ or in other words, second blessing holiness (or the higher walk as epi calls it).

However once we get down to the details, I do not agree with the popular idea that it means 'death to self'. In fact. that idea is from philosophy as found in eastern religions like Buddhism, who are told that there is no self, it is a construct of our minds and we should search for 'no self' to achieve happiness in this life.

This site explains it:

Anātman, the Buddhist Doctrine of No-Self: Why ‘You’ Do Not Really Exist | Philosophy Break

Often misunderstood as denying personhood, the Buddhist doctrine of no-self (anātman) simply aims to deflate the grasping ego. By seeing ourselves for what we really are — bundles of ever-changing processes — we can undermine anxiety, and live more peaceful lives.

philosophybreak.com

It might seem to be nothing important, but we must note that scripture does not confirm it. Rather scripture says that we must DENY ourselves, and the flesh or old man should be crucified. Old man is not self.

“Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires” (Galatians 5:24).

And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke 9:23

And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. John 12:24

There is no verse that says it is self that is to die.

Death means a separation. Cutting a covenant means there is a dividing taking place....like the veil of the temple. So in a biblical sense....the veil "died"...death for the veil...life into the temple.

Being crucified actually is to be "pulled apart" That separation is a death as well. Likewise a broken bone is separated. Always with the idea of a death. As I have stated...only the crushed bones don't ever recover.

Self is neutral and contains the will.

The will is in the inner man. Our inner man will be judged at the Bema seat. A personal judgment. The outer man is there to carry out the will of the soul. But when the soul is dependent on the outer man to protect it, the will can be used against the will of God, and will be. That's why the outer man needs to be broken, crushed...pulled out of joint....crucified. When that happens the inner man can turn to God. As long as the outer man remains intact, the self-life will remain alive AND justified in itself. So the self must be cut in two. Just like the veil in the temple. When the covenant is CUT in us then we can serve God in freedom from bondage to the flesh. The sin is in the outer man. The unbelief and disobedience is in the inward man UNTIL faith in God overcomes the unbelief and disobedience. THAT kind of faith saves the soul.

It serves something or someone. Self is given a new master when flesh has been crucified. As Christianity is now being invaded on all sides and poisoned within, we much be doubly sure we follow what scripture says.

There is a difference between who we are in the inward man (known only to God and spiritual brethren) and the "self" that we think we are. We are a mixture (erev rav) before the cutting away of the carnal nature lodged in our souls.

Eastern thoughts have been coming into the church for a long time and if we suddenly get Christians to be like Buddhists and longing for annihilation, what other points will they join on? It is a big deal which will perhaps increase as time goes on towards the one worlld religion..

The difference is that we are only HALF annihilated. God empowers the other half to walk in His resurrection life. Other religions know about the grasp that sin has on people...that's no secret. Neither is NOT being such a big sinner as being better than one that is. Of course people can know their own condition as being in bondage to the flesh...like the Bhuddists do.

But there is no LIFE in just an annihilation of the soul. Just less death being promoted.

God gives LIFE to the inward man...to walk as Jesus walked. In our sins? No. In Him is no sin. So we need to be disconnected from our old nature (husband) in order to be married to our new Husband (new nature IN Christ).

 

[Hepzibah]

That's why the outer man needs to be broken, crushed...pulled out of joint....crucified. When that happens the inner man can turn to God. As long as the outer man remains intact, the self-life will remain alive AND justified in itself. So the self must be cut in two. Just like the veil in the temple. When the covenant is CUT in us then we can serve God in freedom from bondage to the flesh. The sin is in the outer man. The unbelief and disobedience is in the inward man UNTIL faith in God overcomes the unbelief and disobedience. THAT kind of faith saves the soul.

We see this separation in the garden of Eden where entrance is blocked by the Cherubims holding the flaming sword 'which turned every way to keep the way of the tree of life' judging everyone who would gain access to the tree. Heb 4:12 'For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.'

So it is the soul and spirit that are divided not the self. The soul includes our God given instincts which need to be under the control of the Holy spirit even though they are not sinful themselves like the need to eat.

 

[Hepzibah]

Anyway epi, the question can be solved by clear texts that say self is to die. rather than flesh or the old man.

 

[APAK]

Epi I am sure you know and perhaps some others here, that I am in full agreement with the ideas of crucified with Christ or in other words, second blessing holiness (or the higher walk as epi calls it).

However once we get down to the details, I do not agree with the popular idea that it means 'death to self'. In fact. that idea is from philosophy as found in eastern religions like Buddhism, who are told that there is no self, it is a construct of our minds and we should search for 'no self' to achieve happiness in this life.

This site explains it:

Anātman, the Buddhist Doctrine of No-Self: Why ‘You’ Do Not Really Exist | Philosophy Break

Often misunderstood as denying personhood, the Buddhist doctrine of no-self (anātman) simply aims to deflate the grasping ego. By seeing ourselves for what we really are — bundles of ever-changing processes — we can undermine anxiety, and live more peaceful lives.

philosophybreak.com

It might seem to be nothing important, but we must note that scripture does not confirm it. Rather scripture says that we must DENY ourselves, and the flesh or old man should be crucified. Old man is not self.

“Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires” (Galatians 5:24).

And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke 9:23

And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. John 12:24

There is no verse that says it is self that is to die. Self is neutral and contains the will. It serves something or someone. Self is given a new master when flesh has been crucified. As Christianity is now being invaded on all sides and poisoned within, we much be doubly sure we follow what scripture says.

Eastern thoughts have been coming into the church for a long time and if we suddenly get Christians to be like Buddhists and longing for annihilation, what other points will they join on? It is a big deal which will perhaps increase as time goes on towards the one worlld religion..

I agree totally with this critical point you have raised here. Top marks!

If precision and the truth in scripture is the aim of this thread, then its title should read something more like, ' Are you Dead to your old self today' or 'Have you Denied your old self yet.' And that would indicate to me, have I been reborn yet ...

And to extend this thought even further...

Again, this phrase 'die to self' or 'dead to self' is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible for good reason. As you said, your-self 'never' dies, it is transformed. However, as I also just said, the concept of dying to (old) self is related to the idea of being born again and devotion of faith. The closest thing found in the Bible is where Paul writes, “our old self was crucified” (Romans 6:6).

That is the INNER man that has been transformed and being crucified and transformed, not the outer man. The outer man is the shell and vessel for the inner man that reflects the outward condition of the inner man or self. It does as the inner man believes. And this OUTER vessel is the physical and visible reason, the bane for not having a perfect spiritual life.

Figuratively smashing, crushing, fracturing, or dislocating joints as used in scripture as a REFELCTION of the condition or state of the inner man or self; our heart is then hurting, humble and weak. We cry out to God for help as we read in Job. The human physical body is weak and easily hurt..as out inner man is also.

Here are some other key points to consider:

The Bible teaches that we are new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) and that our old selves have been crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6).

The Bible encourages believers to live according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh (Romans 8:1-14).

The Bible teaches that we should deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Jesus (Matthew 16:24; Luke 9:23).

More Bible verses relevant to the concept of dying to ones 'old' self include:

Romans 6:6 - “We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin”

2 Corinthians 5:17 - “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old (added: self) has gone, the new is here!”

Galatians 2:20 - “I have been crucified with Christ and I (added : old self) no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”

Romans 8:1-14 - “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because of the sinful nature, God did through the miracle of faith—the law of the Spirit of life made me free from the law of sin and death (added" my old self).”

And of course it’s important to note that the concept of dying to ones old self is not a one-time event, but rather a process of continually denying the flesh (added: old self) and living according to the Spirit.
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[Episkopos]

We see this separation in the garden of Eden where entrance is blocked by the Cherubims holding the flaming sword 'which turned every way to keep the way of the tree of life' judging everyone who would gain access to the tree. Heb 4:12 'For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.'

So it is the soul and spirit that are divided not the self. The soul includes our God given instincts which need to be under the control of the Holy spirit even though they are not sinful themselves like the need to eat.

There are two cuts....separation from the world...and then separation from the flesh. Two river crossings in the salvations of God.
Have you watched the video?

Also Heb. 4:12 is not just about separating the soul and spirit but also the joints and marrow (bones)....2 steps.

The soul has sin ingrained in it...a law...the law of sin and death. Romans 7 is about the need for the 2nd cut. After that cut we get the law of the Spirit of life in Christ taking over...whereby there is no more condemnation. 1st cut Christians can still be condemned by denying the cross.

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans​

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Previous Chapter​

Rom.8​

[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you

Galatians 2:20

New King James Version

​

20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

 

[Hepzibah]

Yes I did watch the vid and thought it was your best yet - apart from where I differ.

Yes there are two cuts and two crossings. I think you are making the second one to be the same as the first.

 

[Hepzibah]

“our old self was crucified” (Romans 6:6)

Some say our old man which is more in line with rest of scripture.

 

[Hepzibah]

There are two cuts....separation from the world...and then separation from the flesh. Two river crossings in the salvations of God.

Useful passage from J Penn-Lewis:

" The word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart ... "(Hebrews 4:12, R.V.).

This remarkable passage in Hebrews 4:12 clearly sets forth the distinction between soul and spirit, the need of the "dividing " of one from the other and the means whereby this is done, so that the believer may become a truly " spiritual " man, living "according to 'God in the spirit" (I Peter 4:6). Pember points out, in regard to this passage, that here the Apostle "claims for The Word of God, the power of separating and, as it were, taking to pieces, the whole being of man, spiritual, psychic, soulish and corporeal even as the priest flayed and divided limb from limb the animal for the burnt offering...." Fausset writes, "the Word of God is 'living' and powerful 'energetically efficacious (Greek)' reaching through even to the separation of the animal-soul from the spirit, the higher part of man '"; "piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow .. . distinguishing what is spiritual from what is carnal and animal in him; the spirit from the soul ".

" The Word of God divides the closely joined parts is carnal and animal in him; the spirit from the soul ". " The Word of God divides the closely joined parts of man's immaterial being, soul and spirit...." An image taken from the "literal dividing of joints and penetrating to so as to open out) the marrow by the priest's knife." These words show how suggestive and full of teaching, the whole passage to the believer whose eyes are opened to the danger of the soul-life dominating him, instead of the Spirit of God acting freely from the shrine of his spirit. The question at once arises in a believer who desires to be a spiritual man-" What am I to do? How can I discern what is soulish in my walk and service? "

The text we are considering shows that we are to yield ourselves to our High Priest Who has "passed into the heavens" and He, before Whom "all things are naked and laid open" (Hebrews 4:13), will exercise His office of Priest and wield the sharp two-edged knife of His Word, piercing to the dividing of soul and spirit within us, discerning even the "thoughts and intents of the heart". The "Greek for ` thoughts ' refers to the mind and feelings, and the word ` intents ', or rather ` mental conception ', refers to the intellect ", again writes Fausset in his commentary. The High Priest, Who Himself became Man, that He might be a "merciful and faithful High Priest" (Hebrews 2:17, R.V.) able to sympathise and touched with the very feeling of our physical and moral weakness (Hebrews 4:15, Greek), is the only One Who can take the sacrificial knife and patiently "divide" the soulish life from its penetration into thoughts and feelings, the intellect and even mental conceptions. What a work to be done! How can the animal-soul-life, penetrating the very " joints and marrow" be tracked and dislodged so that the spirit indwelt by the Holy Spirit may dominate and every thought be brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ?

Our High Priest will not fail nor be discouraged in bringing forth victory out of judgment in all those who commit themselves to His hands and trust Him to wield the knife of His living Word by the Spirit of God. But what are the steps? What is man's part? How is the believer to co-operate with the High Priest in this great and delicate work?

(I) By definite surrender of the whole man as a burnt sacrifice laid upon the altar of the Cross, with the entire consent of the will irrevocably given that the High Priest, Christ Jesus, should by His Spirit bring the entire being into conformity to His death (Philippians 3:10) i.e., that He should never stay His hand until the animal-soulish life is " divided" from the "spirit", so that the man may become a vessel into which and through which the inflow and outflow of the Spirit of God may flow freely from the shrine of the spirit.

(2) By continual, persistent, watchful prayer and searching the Scriptures, praying that the keen edge of the Word of God may be applied to all that is of the soulish life; the believer implicitly obeying the Word right up to the light given, according to I Peter 1: 22, R.V., "Ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth".

(3) By the daily taking of the Cross in the circumstances of life so that the believer has the entire victory over sin and the "works of the flesh", whilst the Spirit of God is doing the more minute work of separating the spirit from the soul and teaching the believer how to walk after the spirit. How the separation between soul and spirit is carried out in those who thus lay themselves upon the altar (the Cross) and trust the Heavenly High Priest to use the sword of His Word as a knife to do the work in them we see in the calls to the Cross given by the Lord Jesus to His disciples when He walked the earth as man. Jessie Penn-Lewis:Soul & Spirit.

https://www.fba.org/images/stories/Penn-Lewis_-_Soul_and_Spirit.pdf