Are You Dead to Self?

[Hepzibah]

Epi why do l feel you are skirting around things and not being straight and open? I expect that of you not avoidance. You have missed the confirmation of others who have been enlightened on holiness doctrine to confirm about unsaved righteous people.

I am extremely well read regarding holiness and have even deeply studied the patristic writings on it and the teaching you present has not been mentioned at all. Righteousness and holiness are the same thing.

 

[marks]

Confirmation on confirmation.

The true confirmation is what's in your life, and you are revealed in your words to others.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Righteousness and holiness are the same thing.

I've found this passage shows a simple view of righteousness and holiness. Righteousness is doing/being what is right. Holiness is exclusivity for a purpose.

Ephesians 4:24-25 KJV
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Speaking truth with your neighbor is righteousness. Doing the right thing. Living as members one of another is holiness, being separated out for God's purpose. Being holy, we act righteously.

Now, we can place value on honesty, and speak truth, even though we are not committed to serving others, and instead we are telling the truth out of our sense of, and desire for righteousness. Being committed to nourishing others, giving ourselves fully to others, in our being separated to God, this leads us to do works of righteousness out of our holiness.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

 

[APAK]

I've found this passage shows a simple view of righteousness and holiness. Righteousness is doing/being what is right. Holiness is exclusivity for a purpose.

Ephesians 4:24-25 KJV
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Speaking truth with your neighbor is righteousness. Doing the right thing. Living as members one of another is holiness, being separated out for God's purpose. Being holy, we act righteously.

Now, we can place value on honesty, and speak truth, even though we are not committed to serving others, and instead we are telling the truth out of our sense of, and desire for righteousness. Being committed to nourishing others, giving ourselves fully to others, in our giving ourselves to God, this leads us to do works of righteousness out of our holiness.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

Yes, holiness is truly revealed in/ out of these works of righteousness.

 

[Ritajanice]

. Testimony is better than theology. Testimony is real experience

This I 100% agree with, as long as our testimony lines up with Gods written word, His Living word that he speaks to our hearts, will NEVER contradict His written word.

If what we hear in our hearts relayed to our minds, if it doesn’t line up with scripture, then it wasn’t from Him...that is my opinion/ testimony and belief.

I always check with scripture when I believe God to be speaking to my spirit via His Holy Spirit.

The written word MUST back up the Living word that we receive from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

Epi why do l feel you are skirting around things and not being straight and open? I expect that of you not avoidance. You have missed the confirmation of others who have been enlightened on holiness doctrine to confirm about unsaved righteous people.

I am extremely well read regarding holiness and have even deeply studied the patristic writings on it and the teaching you present has not been mentioned at all. Righteousness and holiness are the same thing.

Well all I can say is that mercy and truth are not the same thing, Grace and mercy are not the same thing, atonement and forgiveness are not the same thing...and what we can do in our own strength is not the same as what a saint can do in the power of the Spirit.

A one dimensional walk shows there has been no translation. Getting stuck in an initial salvation shows that one is still in the wilderness.

I don't think very many understand the full walk...the translation to be where Jesus is...in a heavenly place...in the light as He is in the light.

So people can testify to what they have experienced...or just surmised. I speak of what I know, I experienced and what the bible backs up in both testaments.

People were righteous in God's eyes from day one. Abel was deemed righteous. Are you saying that he was holy??? Noah was righteous...was he holy?


You are inventing doctrines that are NOT in the bible. Why a New Covenant? God is taking His people from righteousness unto holiness. Otherwise Jesus would not have had to die and be resurrected to translate us into HIS resurrection life....which is holy.

Too easy?? Too hard? Too much human surmising. But the truth stands up. What I teach is exactly what the bible teaches. 2 Covenants...two levels. 2 tablets, two main commandments. A double edged sword (in both righteousness AND holiness). Temple holiness aside...putting on the New Man (Christ) is created in TRUE holiness. Actual eternal holiness.

You and most here are maybe just not ready for this teaching.

 

[Episkopos]

Can a person be righteous without also being holy? Of course. But who will listen to what the bible says about it? Few indeed.

Acts 10:22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man (righteous man), and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Cornelius was deemed righteous and still in need to receive the Holy Spirit....to become HOLY!!! God sent Peter so he could be baptized in the Spirit.

What of Zacharias and Elizabeth....they were both righteous...yet Zacharias was in unbelief as to the work of God. Was he holy? No.

What of Lot? Lot was righteous. Was he holy? He slept with his own daughters. Did he fall out of a holy place? No. And these are just examples from the NT.

etc...etc....etc

 

[Behold]

In this time of delusional doctrines and man-made traditions, we are called to walk the separated path - to lose our life now in order to gain it, now and into eternity

Thats not what the NT teaches.

Jesus said that if you gain the whole world BUT in the process you lose your own soul... = you die and go to Hell.. . .So, then you've gained THAT as the end payment regarding all your worldly gain...

So, a sinner, comes to Jesus and Gains Eternal LIFE.... and they have it, as soon as they are born again.

@Episkopos .... Your are teaching "martyr complex".... Religion... when you try to insert "suffering for Christ" or "Losing your life" is how you gain it, in Eternity.


Salvation is how we gain the very life of Christ, as "imputed Righteousness"...
Listen,
Every living Breathing and DEAD Born Again Christian, died = having Eternal Life already, and that is because Eternal life, just like Righteousness and God's Salvation, is a "GIFT" that you can't earn or keep, by self effort.

See..

It "the GIFT of Eternal life"< and its Given...not earned..........

Listen to Jesus explain it..

"""""""ALL who believe in me.......I GIVE UNTO YOU.... ETERNAL LIFE, and you shall never go to Hell, (Perish).""""""

So we dont lose our Life to gain that... because Christ Sacrificed HIS OWN, on The CROSS, so that God could give it to us as : SALVATION.

Reader,

Jesus said that if you gain the whole world BUT in the process you lose your own soul... = you die and go to Hell.. . .So, then you've gained THAT as the end payment regarding all your worldly gain...

So, a sinner, comes to Jesus and Gains Eternal LIFE by being Born again........ and they have it, as soon as they are born again.

Salvation is how we gain the very life of Christ, as "imputed Righteousness"...
Listen,
Every living Breathing and DEAD Born Again Christian, died = having Eternal Life already, and that is because Eternal life, just like Righteousness and God's Salvation, is a "GIFT" that you can't earn or keep, by self effort.

See..

It "the GIFT of Eternal life"< and its Given...not earned..........

Listen to Jesus explain it..

"""""""ALL who believe in me.......I GIVE UNTO YOU.... ETERNAL LIFE, and you shall never go to Hell, (Perish).""""""

So we dont lose our Life to gain that... and its because Christ Sacrificed HIS OWN, on The CROSS, so that God could give it to us as : SALVATION.

Reader,

God Gives 3 Instant GIFTS to the BELIEVER who is born again.

1.) "THE GIFT of Salvation".

2.) "The GIFT of Righteousness"

3.) "The GIFT of Eternal Life"..

The Apostle John says that "you can KNOW that you have ETERNAL LIFE, as this LIFE in is IN JESUS"

= And ALL the born again are "IN CHRIST".

Reader, dont let people who dont understand the Cross or Salvation, talk you out of your God Given GIFTs, by trying to con you, and deceive you, into believing that you have to earn them down here.
You do not.
See = the "Cross of Christ" for the UPDATE on why you have been Given Salvation, Righteousness, and Eternal LIFE.

Now, you are to : "Present your body to God as a living sacrifice, as your REASONABLE Service'...

But its just "service".... its not to gain Eternal life.

 

[Lizbeth]

Just want to put a couple of thoughts on the table.

I think of dying to self to be just a manner of speaking in a Christian context. Good to be cautious, though in this case I don't think this is the same as the Buddhist idea of annihilation. False religions do often have some bits and pieces of truth here and there, though tainted. In a Christian context we are really talking about the old man.....dying to the old man, our old self so to speak, in order to be alive to Christ, living out of our new man, a new self as it were. Re-newed really.

I believe holiness is a condition or state of being......out of which true righteousness proceeds as the fruit of holiness. And that "true righteousness" is not the same as one's own righteousness. Our own righteousness is of the flesh (Tree of Knowledge of GOOD and Evil).....whereas "true righteousness" is of the Spirit of God/Christ within the born again believer (Tree of Life). I believe we receive a measure of true righteousness when we come to faith, but also we still have our own righteousness as well...sometimes we are consciously acting from our own righteousness, other times it is spontaneously from the Spirit of God in us....we are changed creatures, not yet perfect but better than we were. But as we die to the old man we are also dying to our own righteousness are we not....?....seems to me that are being stripped of everything that belongs to the old man who is a mixture of both good (own righteousness) and evil.

 

[quietthinker]

You attack the Scripture that I write about like the Jews attacked Jesus when he spoke about the Scriptures. He referred to them as of the devil. I think the same of you.

No Sir, no attacking scripture. This charge is used as a decoy.

 

[Lizbeth]

2 Covenants...two levels.

I agree....that the first covenant can be seen as a foreshadowing or figure for a first "level" of a born again believer...we are like children being tutored to Christ, ie, to "gain Christ" like Paul wrote, often through the frustration of not being always able to live up to God's standard. I want to say though that I don't take it to be literal (just in case anyone is thinking along those lines), but in my observation and experience there seem to be similarities. Hope you would agree that we who have come to faith have received graces and advantages that they didn't have, who were under the first covenant literally....?

 

[Behold]

You and most here are maybe just not ready for this teaching.

= Vain Jangling.. on full tilt.

Listen,
You teach "self doing it"....."its all about SELF doing it"..... And you try to hide this by quoting/posting some bizarre ideas alongside bible verses.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Ritajanice]

 

[Ritajanice]

 

[Peterlag]

No Sir, no attacking scripture. This charge is used as a decoy.

You don't comment on the Scripture I refer to. You attack me personally. This the devils did to Jesus. They made it about him saying we are not a bastard child like you, or we know your family, or you have a devil, etc etc. You do the same to me.

 

[Peterlag]

Until you have crucified your flesh with it's lusts, it gets in the way of walking in the Spirit.

Much love!

I do not agree. I don't have any lust when I'm in the spirit or in him.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 

[Nancy]

How can the soul ever become separated from the spirit until death?

Eccl. 12:7
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

 

[Peterlag]

How can the soul ever become separated from the spirit until death?

Eccl. 12:7
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

I have been looking for this for many years. I always knew the body rots in the ground. The spirit goes back to God. And then I was taught the soul leaves the body as breath life. Then I asked what are the dead? What gets up when Christ returns? Nobody could tell me. I just found out the soul goes to the grave. But it's the spirit that gives us everlasting life. Do we get a new spirit when we get up from out among the dead? Or does the one that went back to God have are name on it? I know of nobody that knows. I can't even get most to understand that the soul is not the spirit.

 

[Nancy]

I have been looking for this for many years. I always knew the body rots in the ground. The spirit goes back to God. And then I was taught the soul leaves the body as breath life. Then I asked what are the dead? What gets up when Christ returns? Nobody could tell me. I just found out the soul goes to the grave. But it's the spirit that gives us everlasting life. Do we get a new spirit when we get up from out among the dead? Or does the one that went back to God have are name on it? I know of nobody that knows. I can't even get most to understand that the soul is not the spirit.

Puzzles, lol.

Well, man was not a "living soul" until God breathed the breath of Life into him. The person passes from this world, the spirit of the person goes right back to God and "ashes to ashes, dust..."

Another verse that keeps me thinking on this also is "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"... Hmm.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree....that the first covenant can be seen as a foreshadowing or figure for a first "level" of a born again believer...we are like children being tutored to Christ, ie, to "gain Christ" like Paul wrote, often through the frustration of not being always able to live up to God's standard. I want to say though that I don't take it to be literal (just in case anyone is thinking along those lines), but in my observation and experience there seem to be similarities. Hope you would agree that we who have come to faith have received graces and advantages that they didn't have, who were under the first covenant literally....?

Yes. We have definite advantages over those who had the law as a tutor. That even sounds like a school...the school of the law..like grade-school. And the New Covenant by grace is like high school (the higher walk )

But the exams are harder in high school than in grade school. So then there is an equivalent difficulty at both levels. For the Israelites it was about a physical Promised Land. For us it is a spiritual heavenly realm (kingdom). But there is so much unbelief in BOTH cases.

Having received grace from God, we are now tested in our faith at that level. This is not a physical test of faith...but a spiritual test of faith. And our record is no better than the ones who went before us. Although I would say that the early church had a kick-start into the race of faith because of all the men and women who had a direct contact with the Lord. After that the devil slowly got the upper hand...turning a living faith into a dead religion to name and claim and justify oneself with...without any faith whatsoever. Creeds and belief systems now prevail.