Are You of Israel?

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Are you of Israel?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5

marksman

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YHWH made a covenant with Israel. It doesn't say anything about a second covenant with Pagans. Yahshua was commissioned ONLY for Israel.

Now if I'm to understand this, ONLY excludes everyone but Israel. So if Yahshua came for me; I am Israel.

It's quite simple actually.
I still can't see any reference to Israel in those verses.
 

marksman

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Again, YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

If we are one in covenant; and the covenant is with Israel; then we are one in covenant with Israel.
Being one in covenant with Israel does not make you a Jew.
 

DNB

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I look forward to your expanding the passage to put it in to your alleged proper context. Such an accomplishment would be far more productive than these continued ad hominem fallacies.
It's a shame that I actually have to prove this, seriously!

New Revelation
Hebrews 1:1-2
1:1. God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2. in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

New Covenant
Hebrews 3:1-3
3:1. Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; 2. He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. 3. For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house.

Hebrews 4:8-9
4:8. For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9. So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

New Priesthood, not Levitical
Hebrews 4:14
4:14. Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

Hebrews 5:4-5
5:4. And no one takes the honor to himself, but receives it when he is called by God, even as Aaron was. 5. So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to Him, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU

One may fall away after being saved: Can an Israelite not become an Israelite?
Hebrews 6:4-6
6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

A priesthood greater than the Aaronic priesthood was foreshadowed
Hebrews 7:1-7
7:1. For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2. to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. 3. Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually. 4. Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils. 5. And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham. 6. But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises. 7. But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater.

A new order of High Priest has been established
Hebrews 7:11-15
7:11. Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12. For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13. For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,

A Judean High Priest has superceded the Levitical
Hebrews 7:23-24
7:23. The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24. but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.

New Covenant established, due to the inferiority of the first
Hebrews 8:6-13
8:6. But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. 7. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8. For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; 9. NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD. 10. "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 11. "AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN, AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 12. "FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE." 13. When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Hebrews 9:13-15
9:13. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14. how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15. For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

The inferiority of the Law
Hebrews 10:1-4
10:1. For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

The Superiority of the New Law of Faith
Hebrews 11:1-11
11:1. Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2. For by it the men of old gained approval. 3. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. 4. By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. 5. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. 6. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. 7. By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. 8. By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10. for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11. By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised.

The examples of Faith set by the Patriarchs and holy men of the past
Hebrews 12:1
12:1. Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
 

DNB

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I trust that you are aware that correlation does not equate to causation. No?
Of course it does. It's called Biblical hermeneutics, allowing Scripture to interpret itself. Proper and disciplined exegesis, allows one to correlate the relevant passages to their proper counterpart, this is not a haphazard exercise. But since Paul on more than one occasion persisted in preaching always to the Jews first, had to relent an go towards the Gentiles, this is a correct correlate.
 

HARK!

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Of course it does. It's called Biblical hermeneutics, allowing Scripture to interpret itself. Proper and disciplined exegesis, allows one to correlate the relevant passages to their proper counterpart, this is not a haphazard exercise. But since Paul on more than one occasion persisted in preaching always to the Jews first, had to relent an go towards the Gentiles, this is a correct correlate.

Non sequitur.
 

HARK!

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New Priesthood, not Levitical

(CLV) Jer 33:18
As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

(CLV) Jer 33:21
then also My covenant could be annulled with David My servant, so that he should not come to have a son reigning on his throne, and that with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

(CLV) Mal 3:3
And He will sit like a refiner and a cleanser of silver. And He will cleanse the sons of Levi, and purify them like gold and like silver. And they will come to be for Yahweh, bringing close the approach present in righteousness.

(CLV) Mal 3:4
Then the approach present of Judah and Jerusalem will be congenial to Yahweh as in the days of the eon, and as in former years.
 

HARK!

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The inferiority of the Law
Hebrews 10:1-4
10:1. For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Notice that Yahshua has ascended when this was written. The law is in the present tense. The good things are in the future tense.

How this is relevant to the OP, along with the rest of what I've read in your, "so called" proof, so far, is another story. So far it's just a hodge podge of unrelated captions, with loosely connected scripture. Just thought I would point this out to you; since I was looking right at it.
 

Enoch111

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All are one in Yahshua. All are one in Israel. All are one in covenant with YHWH.
Paul makes it crystal clear that within the Body of Christ (the Church) there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. He also states that the Church is METAPHORICALLY the *Israel of God* since believing Jews are the metaphorical *good olive tree*, into which believing Gentiles have been grafted in from the *wild olive tree*. The Church originated on the day of Pentecost with saved Jews. After that Gentiles were added. And now Gentiles predominate within the Church. But there will be a "fulness of the Gentiles" at which point the Church will be completed and taken to Heaven.

At the same time, Paul also makes it clear that God is not through with unbelieving Jews, and that after the second coming of Christ there will be a literal redeemed and restored Israel consisting of twelve tribes located in the land of greater Israel.
 

HARK!

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Paul makes it crystal clear that within the Body of Christ (the Church) there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.

The word distinction is not used.

(CLV) Ga 3:27
For whoever are baptized into Christ, put on Christ,

(CLV) Ga 3:28
in Whom there is not Jew nor yet Greek, there is not slave nor yet free, there is not male and female, for you/ all are one in Christ Jesus.

(CLV) Ga 3:29
Now if you are Christ's, consequently you are of Abraham's seed, enjoyers of the allotment according to the promise.

No more Pagan rituals. No more Jewish Talmud. All put on Messiah

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

He also states that the Church is METAPHORICALLY the *Israel of God* since believing Jews are the metaphorical *good olive tree*, into which believing Gentiles have been grafted in from the *wild olive tree*.

METAPHORICALLY? Where does he use that word? I don't believe that those who are one in Messiah are metaphorically Israel, anymore than I believe that they will metaphorically enter his Kingdom. I trust it as concrete reality.

Believing Gentiles is an oxymoron. If they truly believe; they won't be Pagans for much longer. Again, there are no Pagans in Messiah.

. The Church originated on the day of Pentecost with saved Jews. After that Gentiles were added. And now Gentiles predominate within the Church. But there will be a "fulness of the Gentiles" at which point the Church will be completed and taken to Heaven.

Again Pagans aren't added to the assembly; they Ger Toshav leave their Pagan ways behind. Neither is the assembly composed of Hellenistic Jews. Those of the assembly have died to their wicked ways, and have been reborn in Messiah.

after the second coming of Christ there will be a literal redeemed and restored Israel consisting of twelve tribes located in the land of greater Israel.

This is my understanding. What we have in the land right now, does not reflect YHWH's regathering.
 

DNB

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(CLV) Jer 33:18
As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

(CLV) Jer 33:21
then also My covenant could be annulled with David My servant, so that he should not come to have a son reigning on his throne, and that with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

(CLV) Mal 3:3
And He will sit like a refiner and a cleanser of silver. And He will cleanse the sons of Levi, and purify them like gold and like silver. And they will come to be for Yahweh, bringing close the approach present in righteousness.

(CLV) Mal 3:4
Then the approach present of Judah and Jerusalem will be congenial to Yahweh as in the days of the eon, and as in former years.
All that you did was ignore the texts that I showed you?
Yes, I see what your proof-text is saying, it does state that the Levitical priesthood would never end. My verses say otherwise. Now what?
 
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HARK!

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All that you did was ignore the texts that I showed you?

That's because they were irrelevant to the OP; and if they proved anything; you didn't include a conclusion. You would do well on studying up how to present a logical argument.

My verses say otherwise.

No they don't.

The Levitical Priesthood consisted of more than simply a High Priest. Scripture doesn't contradict itself. If it seems to; then your understanding is incorrect.
 

Heart2Soul

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Holy Spirit help us!

Don't you all realize we are all ONE BODY? That when we are saved we become ADOPTED sons and daughters and joint heirs to the Throne of God....that there is no labeling of who is who and what gender we are for we are all of the SAME SPIRIT that we are born again into?

This debate over who is of Israel and who isn't is meaningless....it doesn't even apply to the NEW COVENANT.

images
 
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HARK!

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This debate over who is of Israel and who isn't is meaningless....it doesn't even apply to the NEW COVENANT.



(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.
 
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