are you trapped in Nicolaitan Dialectic?

[David H.]

And then you castigate me for not seeing what you see and what's up with that?

Don't you in being my judge set yourself over me, effectively doing that which you are preaching against?

Either see this your way, or I'm leading the lambs to the slaughter?

I've yet to see a real Scripture which equates the antichrist spirit to the doctrine of the nicolaitans. Myself, I think that needlessly limits what antichrist is about. Conquering and to conquer is just a mean to an end for antichrist. The end itself, to be "instead of Christ", that's antichrist.

Try 1 John 2 for a what ties the Nicolaitan doctrines to the antichrist spirit.

As for Castigating, Is a warning to someone who is heading off a cliff "castigating" them? I Observed this in your response and pointed it out to you and encouraged you to see it and do something about it. It's a shock when you find out this spirit is working in you, as it is in many Christians and people in the church, My comment was intended to cause a self examination, and a zealousness to discover the truth, much like Paul did with the Corinthian Church (1 Corinthians 5, and 2 Corinthians 7) It is a shock to most Christians when they find out how infiltrated the church, the temple is with the antichrist spirit, look at Ezekiel 8 when Ezekiel was shown this of the Temple in Jerusalem.... We are at a precipice in this church age, I strongly believe that and many do not see these things yet, He is Opening my eyes to many of these things even now as I am writing this as to how pervasive this is in the church and how hard it will be for many to come to terms with this.
Again, My comment was not meant to offend but to encourage please read it as such.

Your apology was accepted and understood, I have done the same in mistaking one commenter with another on this Forum before. Thank you for the honesty to clarify this.

 

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Try 1 John 2 for a what ties the Nicolaitan doctrines to the antichrist spirit.

Nothing is said there concerning Nicolaitan doctrine to help us to define what that doctrine is, however.

As for Castigating, Is a warning to someone who is heading off a cliff "castigating" them?

David H. said: ↑
Do you see this? I See in your response here a Laodicean mindset at work, One that feeds the Nicolaitan ego and control over the sheep, leading them to slaughter.

Thank you for sharing your rather low opinion of me with all the rest of us! Just the same, this is your opinion only, and you really truly don't know me or even have much of a sense of the sort of person I am or where I am in my walk in the Lord, that is, based on your expressed opinions.

We each have our way, and we each have a unique relationship with our Creator.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Thank you for sharing your rather low opinion of me with all the rest of us! Just the same, this is your opinion only, and you really truly don't know me or even have much of a sense of the sort of person I am or where I am in my walk in the Lord, that is, based on your expressed opinions.

We each have our way, and we each have a unique relationship with our Creator.

Did the Corinthian church Mope and get offended when Paul exposed them for the Problems they had in their church? No, They did something about it they received the correction and changed, They Took responsibility and did something about the problems in their church. You see getting offended is what the Left does with the Truth, until now they label the Truth as Toxic Masculinity and being offended as being "woke". I Know this is not who you are but this mindset is infesting the church to the point now that only praise and exhortation is politically correct, where as reproval and rebuke are frowned up as being offensive.

You made a comment that was just like what the Laodicean says in their heart "I am in need of nothing", I merely pointed that out to you and you took offense. It is this attitude that feeds the Nicolaitans their gaul to rule over the Laity as it takes both a complacent laity and those willing to lord over the laity to maintain this dialectic. Thus your quote was a perfect example of this mindset at work.

Prove me wrong is what you should be doing now, instead of complaining about how offended this made you. Godly remorse should be the result, not personal offense. look at the example of the Corinthian Church as Paul praised them for in 2 Corinthians 7. The chapter is only 16 verses takthe time to read it.

For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (verses 8-10)

Know one thing, I do not point anyone to follow me, I point them to Christ and the cross and the right relationship with Him. I am nothing, just a vessel for Him to speak through. I Hold no authority nor do I claim any, as Christ is the head, and my all in all.

God Bless.

 

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Mope and get offended

Am I moping and getting offended? No I am not.

I'm pointing out the fallacies in some of what you are saying.

In that I point to my fulness in Christ as a response to your assertion I have nothing, that isn't a statement of offense, it's a refutation or your assertion.

So then you toss it back as some kind of emotional response, but that's inaccurate.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Mope and get offended . . . No, They Grew a set

BTW . . . are you hearing yourself? How is this any way to discuss something?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Prove me wrong is what you should be doing now, instead of complaining about how offended this made you. Godly remorse should be the result, not personal offense.

Where is all the personal offense?

Seriously!

Turning the topic to my supposed emotional state - You're wrong, you know - is a great way to not answer my content. But you don't have to answer.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

You made a comment that was just like what the Laodicean says in their heart "I am in need of nothing", I merely pointed that out to you and you took offense.

I'm pointing out the fallacies in some of what you are saying.

Here is what you said that I observed as being Laodicean denial on your part....

"I don't see us being spiritually deficient, waiting and hoping for more Holy Spirit so we can finally start to be what all Christians were supposed to be, as it seems that you do."

How is this different from "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" (Revelation 3:17)?

It is at best ignorant of there being a Problem in the church today, or At worst a form of self delusion, and denial.

That being said, I do believe all things work together for good to them that Love God, and while I see this Problem in the modern church, I see it as an opportunity for the saints to rise and accomplish the will of God if and when they heed this weakness, But that all begins by heeding the instructions in that letter, and part of that is to learn to sup with Christ, and to eat the meat of His Word with him, and to grow up into Him. My Hope is that one day you and others who might read this will heed this and embrace this opportunity.... (read Luke 14:8-11)

God Bless.

 

[David H.]

As I have mentioned to you before, The Two biggest Problems in the church today is the Nicolaitan doctrines, and the Laodicean denial in the People that leads to complacency and contentment with the way things are. the Two feed off of each other in this Nicolaitan dialectic, and the circular reasoning perpetuates this relationship.

I know to many here these ideas are not ones you have heard before, But some of you have ears to hear.... This is for those who do and want to digest some of the Meat of this that Holy Ghost is teaching me.

The Nicolaitan doctrine and Dialectic "evolves' through the church ages. It began with the false Apostles, whose deeds were withstood, It grew into a doctrine that was tolerated. It becomes a spirit that leads to adultery and exalts itself to the role of Prophetess, It has the appearance of Life but is dead producing dead works, It falsely proclaims its place in Glory But is not, instead they are of the Synogogue of Satan, until finally it produces a People that are self deceived for whom the the Strong delusion will fall upon. Until finally it is overcome by the Antichrist.

Much Like Progressive revelation has occurred in the church (see my other post regarding this), the Mystery of Iniquity has been at work evolving to its final stage. John said even now there are many antichrists among you, and Paul said the Mystery of Iniquity is at work even when he wrote These are all pointing to this evolution of Evil in the false church system, the Nicolaitan church, the Synogogue of Satan.

It is this understanding that will unite the Preterist and the pre-millennialist out there. This all began early on in the church, and continues to this day, The Kingdom of God being born on earth as in heaven and the Kingdom Of Satan and the mystery of Iniquity at work opposing the Kingdom, and there will be a final battle Latter is destroyed in Revelation 17 and Revelation 18 we see this occurring.

 

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"I don't see us being spiritually deficient, waiting and hoping for more Holy Spirit so we can finally start to be what all Christians were supposed to be, as it seems that you do."

How is this different from "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" (Revelation 3:17)?

Well . . . there is the Bible verse I keep quoting, that Christ is filled with God, and fills us, completely, both. Then there is the other verse, that we have His great and precious promises, that He has given us everything we need for life and Godliness.

You take that statement, and try to make it like I'm saying "I'm don't need anything!" to make me fit your theory.

Now do you see what you are doing?

Much love!

 

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It is at best ignorant of there being a Problem in the church today, or At worst a form of self delusion, and denial.

Maybe it's just a better understanding of the Word. Or at the least, different.

You don't have to make this personal, but then, given your understand, I guess you do.

Much love!

 

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I know to many here these ideas are not ones you have heard before, But some of you have ears to hear.... This is for those who do and want to digest some of the Meat of this that Holy Ghost is teaching me.

I'm sorry, but I've been hearing this for years. This is not new.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

I'm sorry, but I've been hearing this for years. This is not new.

Much love!

LOL, The one who has no clue what Nicolaitan means has been hearing this for years....

 

[David H.]

Well . . . there is the Bible verse I keep quoting, that Christ is filled with God, and fills us, completely, both. Then there is the other verse, that we have His great and precious promises, that He has given us everything we need for life and Godliness.

yes, and he continues to fill us, he is infinite, we cannot contain all of what he has, He said to the Apostles there was more to say but they could not bear those things (John 16:12) Those who say they have all and know all there is to know and are in need of nothing think they have God figured out and this is a form of mental Hubris. The Opposite of this is Faith in his greatness. It is this sort of faith that moves mountains, and it is this attitude that is expressed in the Words of Ezekiel when asked whether the dry bones could live, He said, "LORD thou knowest". Much Like the Holiness of God is incomprehensible the Wisdom of God is infinite and we only know a miniscule amount of it, "We Know in Part". He wants to reveal more of Himself to those who can still hear and be taught by the Spirit of Truth. But The Nicolaitan mindset and the Ladicean complacency prevent this.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off. (Isaiah 55:8-13)

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (Romans 8:18-19)

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3)

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. (John 21:25)

 

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But The Nicolaitan mindset and the Ladicean complacency prevent this.

And to make this point, you will take my faith in God's Word that He has filled me with Himself - which it say, I'm not waiting for Him to "finish filling me up", He already fills me, and my faith in His promise to me, that He's given me everything I can possibly need in giving me Himself,

You are willing and insistant to take that expression of faith and declare me "Laodicean", poor, miserable, blind, naked, deluded.

Is the take-away point here that if I were to agree with you, I wouldn't get this treatment, but since I disagree, I do? Because you really don't know much about me, nothing really about my faith and my life. So this is all coming from your own ideas.

You quote some great passages.

But none of them tell us that in Christ we yet have a spiritual lack. Only in maturity, and in renewing the mind. We already have EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ.

What can you have MORE than Jesus in you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

LOL, The one who has no clue what Nicolaitan means has been hearing this for years....

Derision?

Why?

Yes, I've participated in this debate for years. I know the arguments for the different views. There are always variations on the themes.

Each view that I've seen depends on certain assumptions held by the holder, because there simply are not those clear Scriptural definitions or descriptions.

And as I've come to understand the Bible, it doesn't spend much time defining false doctrine. It teaches true doctrine, and in ways that allow us to refute any false doctrine. But it doesn't go into what those doctrines all are.

In the case of antichrist, it does, this is the denial of Jesus Christ, as John describes it.

In the case of the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, it was denounced, but not defined.

I don't happen to share your base assumptions that allow you to reach your conclusion, and so you turn on me personally.

That also speaks for itself.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

And to make this point, you will take my faith in God's Word that He has filled me with Himself - which it say, I'm not waiting for Him to "finish filling me up", He already fills me, and my faith in His promise to me, that He's given me everything I can possibly need in giving me Himself,

You are willing and insistant to take that expression of faith and declare me "Laodicean", poor, miserable, blind, naked, deluded.

Is the take-away point here that if I were to agree with you, I wouldn't get this treatment, but since I disagree, I do? Because you really don't know much about me, nothing really about my faith and my life. So this is all coming from your own ideas.

You quote some great passages.

But none of them tell us that in Christ we yet have a spiritual lack. Only in maturity, and in renewing the mind. We already have EVERY spiritual blessing in Christ.

What can you have MORE than Jesus in you?

Why are you so afraid of admitting you are a Laodicean? I freely admit this, and embrace this as our identity as the end time church. Part of that is coming to terms with this identity in all believers in this day and age, of the Post-modern church. Yes this is the church age with the greatest depravity, but also the one with the greatest promise for those who overcome, and the Greatest opportunity to embrace Christ likeness.

"What can you have more than Jesus in you?" Again I agree with you in that we have all we need in Christ Jesus, that being said it is we that are lacking not what he has provided. We fail to submit to him, to learn from him to grow with Him, to gain the mind of Christ, by our mindset that "we are in need of nothing". We need to go to the fountain and drink of the living water till we have more than enough, that the oil of our lamp does not run out while we wait, that we can be a light to those around us, that the Love of God can be perfected in us, that we can lead others to that same fountain to drink. We Need the eyesalve of God, the Gold refined in the fire, the clothing to cover our nakedness. All these things He provides for us, but he wants us to want them, he wants us to hunger and thirst for them, he is not going to force them down your throat. He wants to know you and be known by you, by revealing more of Himself to you, for there clearly more to Him than we can contain in a book, or in our puny minds that can only be revealed by the mind of Christ.

Have you ever been in the Presence of God? Have you ever been so moved by His greatness and His holiness, that you have been overcome with tears and awe of His presence, and your own unworthiness? That is what I am trying to instill in those who will hear what is being said. We cannot contain an infinite God in our minds, he fills us to overflowing, and this is how we bare the fruit of the Spirit, it has nothing to do with what we do, but what he does, we are merely a vessel for him to fill, and to bless those who have not heard. When the Nicolaitan doctrine and the laodicean mindset are overcome, we all fulfill the great commission, and become a royal priesthood, not just some class of Clergy. We all will fulfill the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom to all the world, not just some televangelist who claims they will by the strength of their radio transmitter and the money you send their ministry.... We all fulfill Matthew 24:14, and then the end shall come..... We hasten that coming by embracing this, do you understand?????

I Hope you do.

 

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Why are you so afraid of admitting you are a Laodicean? I freely admit this, and embrace this as our identity as the end time church.

Why do you attribute my doctrine to arising from feelings of fear? Why do you presume that I'm afraid of such? You don't think I like truth?

There's the question I suppose.

I guess that no matter what I were to respond, the reply from you is that I'm being intellectually dishonest in some way, in this case, "Afraid to admit . . ."

Something to seriously consider in my opinion is your insistence to label me in some negative way as your means of reply.

Again I agree with you in that we have all we need in Christ Jesus,

Ok, good!

Have you ever been in the Presence of God? Have you ever been so moved by His greatness and His holiness, that you have been overcome with tears and awe of His presence, and your own unworthiness? That is what I am trying to instill in those who will hear what is being said.

You may want to check your methods.

We are and remain in God's presence, and in faith, in believing, this can be to you the most vital and alive relationship in your life.

We all fulfill Matthew 24:14, and then the end shall come..... We hasten that coming by embracing this, do you understand?????

That's quite another discussion I think. But no, I don't believe that we will change the timing of Jesus' return by something we will do.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Why do you attribute my doctrine to arising from feelings of fear? Why do you presume that I'm afraid of such? You don't think I like truth?

There's the question I suppose.

I guess that no matter what I were to respond, the reply from you is that I'm being intellectually dishonest in some way, in this case, "Afraid to admit . . ."

Something to seriously consider in my opinion is your insistence to label me in some negative way as your means of reply.

Why is it that You always gravitate to posts I write, and draw ire on them in the first place? Every one of my Posts gets bogged down by you attacking the validity of them. It is endless. Here you are again telling me why the my meaning of Nicolaitan is wrong and not worthy to be said, Why? You see, I can see right through you, and though you deny the things I have said to you, they effect you whether for good or bad. So When I say i see fear in you, it is plain to see, There is a fear of the Move of the Holy Spirit in your life, a fear of letting Go, and a fear submitting to His work in you. It is obvious from your comments here to me and others.

That does not mean I question your faith, nor do i question your wisdom regarding scripture, as clearly you are knowledgeable and skilled in the Word of God, as I have commended you before, but something is holding you back and this is what I am trying to show you. For Myself it took over 20 years to discover this, as a fundamentalist and a Baptist (which I still am), But to open up to the revelation and teaching of God the Holy Spirit, to not place God in a box of human understanding and see His Majesty unlike ever before.... I do not even have words to explain this adequately as this is so much bigger than I can even give a picture of to your comprehension.

I Know One thing, the attitude that says we have need of nothing is at the very heart of the Problem. I see this attitude in you and your comments here and if you go back and read them and are honest you will see this yourself. I am merely encouraging you to try and break free from this mindset and see God with the same Awe and admiration that inspires my writing, perhaps then you will appreciate what I am saying here.

My Goal in all my writing is to point to Christ and the cross. I Do not seek followers of myself or glory for myself, but Glory for Him, He is the way, the Truth and the Life. Most Christians know this verse (John 14:6) from memory, but have no clue of the depth of the meaning of these things in relation to Christ. They Know he is the way to heaven, but they do not comprehend he is the way to holiness, they understand He is the truth, but not that He is Truth personified, and they may understand that he is life but not that he brings us to life in Him. They Believe these things as a doctrine, but not as transformative events in our walk with Him. It is one thing to acknowledge a creed, and another thing altogether to Know Him By this creed relationally. So Many for example believe Jesus is God Incarnate by creed, But they have not experienced the full manifestation of his divinity in their life. They Know the Word of God doctrinally, and as book, But do not Know the Living Word of God. When this occurs, the Word of God comes alive and the words written therein come to life as He begins to open the real meanings of those words to you, and the depth of the revelation contained in them.

Scripture interprets scripture is a good starting point, a Good hermeneutic, But when the Word of God comes to life scripture will begin to resonate with who you are and what you need and will read you, and convict you, and move you and transform you, this is the Power of the sword of the Spirit. It cuts to the marrow of who you are, and the intents of the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

So I may not know you personally, but I can see through you, not because I have some special insight, but because of my past experience and overcoming similar attitudes in my own life, and similar fears as you are faced with, a distrust of divine revelation, a fear of being misled, and a fear instilled in you by Nicolaitan Doctrines in your own life in the form of an instilled fear of anything that is contrary to the teachings you brought up under. Nicolaitan Doctrines are imbedded in all the churches of men, not just the Catholic church, but all of them. For example, Calvinists will say all Arminians are going to hell and vice versa, Or fundamentalist Baptist will say all charismatics are going to hell.... In doing so they are exerting control on that laity that is under them to remain in their place and not grow in Christ, and instead remain suckling on those leaders so that they do not wander from these doctrines, as if they have exclusive knowledge of the Truth and the way and the life. But obviously we all know in part, and with unity of the Spirit we will more fully know the parts of Truth others have that are kept separate by those Nicolaitan leaders and their doctrines that bind us..... Do You understand?

In other words to say you are not a victim of this dialectic is to deceive yourself, Society influences each of us, whether for good or ill, to say it does not affect us is a lie, and growth cannot begin until you admit this, and see this for what it is in your life. The Good news is that we can have this same relationship with God Through Christ our mediator, and be in a dialectic with Him, and his authority is not burdensome and submitting to Him is the most Liberating thing we can do in our lives. In Moments of reform, such as the reformation, we experience this liberation from Nicolaitanism only to be entrapped in it again, as the Nicolaitans exert their control again, each church age is marked by this Liberation form tyranny, and you see the revival of the next church age, From the rigid fundamentalism of the last church age we saw the Holy spirit Move in the outcasts of fundamentalism in the holiness movements that brought forth the Charismatic revival, From this final church age of Laodicea one more revival will come and it will be unlike any before as it will last for a millennium and for all eternity, But not all will be revived many more will fall away.

 

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I can see right through you, and though you deny the things I have said to you, they effect you whether for good or bad. So When I say i see fear in you, it is plain to see, There is a fear of the Move of the Holy Spirit in your life, a fear of letting Go, and a fear submitting to His work in you. It is obvious from your comments here to me and others.

This makes it very clear to me you do not see me.

You can think whatever you like, you can post all your poor opinions of me for whomever will read them. But understand that is what you are doing. You are disparaging someone you don't even know, because I happen to disagree with you on a couple of points. Nothing about how we are saved, that I can recall, nothing about Who Jesus is, nothing like that.

but because of my past experience and overcoming similar attitudes in my own life,

This is the heart of projection. "Your life must be just like mine."

Much love!

 

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Why is it that You always gravitate to posts I write,

I happen to read many posts on this forum, and respond to a good number of them.

Much love!