Assuming free will exists, did humanity possess it in the Garden?

[aspen]

If you have questions about the existence of free will please contribute to the other thread on free will. This thread concerns the nature of free will and if we possessed it before the Fall.

 

[veteran]

Yes, free will had to exist for Adam and Eve to make their choice to follow, or not follow, God's commandment to not eat of the tree in the midst of the Garden. Simple.

Why would there even be any confusion about that, especially among one who professes Christ Jesus as their Saviour and is supposed to be studying God's Word?

 

[aspen]

Thanks for questioning my faith, Veteran - that is the real point of the thread.....

I believe free will extends passed choosing between right and wrong - in fact, choosing the wrong is an illustration of free will being broken. Adam exercised free will in the Garden before the Fall - he chose names for all the animals, for example. Before the Fall, we had the freedom to make perfect choices - after the Fall, we are only able to make imperfect choices - which is why we can never choose God - He has to choose us first.

 

[veteran]

Thanks for questioning my faith, Veteran - that is the real point of the thread.....

I believe free will extends passed choosing between right and wrong - in fact, choosing the wrong is an illustration of free will being broken. Adam exercised free will in the Garden before the Fall - he chose names for all the animals, for example. Before the Fall, we had the freedom to make perfect choices - after the Fall, we are only able to make imperfect choices - which is why we can never choose God - He has to choose us first.

I'm not questioning your Faith? Why would you assume that?

You know as well as I do that Eve was deceived, and she and Adam had to choose to disobey God.

 

[aspen]

I'm not questioning your Faith? Why would you assume that?

You know as well as I do that Eve was deceived, and she and Adam had to choose to disobey God.

I totally agree that Eve and then Adam were tempted and made an evil choice to eat the fruit, which opened Pandora's Box. All I am saying is that free will is more than just choosing between good and evil choices. Adam and Eve were told by the serpent that they would be able to determine good from evil by eating the fruit - what actually happen was that they lost there free will to choose the Good.

 

[veteran]

I totally agree that Eve and then Adam were tempted and made an evil choice to eat the fruit, which opened Pandora's Box. All I am saying is that free will is more than just choosing between good and evil choices. Adam and Eve were told by the serpent that they would be able to determine good from evil by eating the fruit - what actually happen was that they lost there free will to choose the Good.

They had to have free will to make the first choice. And afterwards, they still had free will to follow God's Ways or not, just as it still is for us today. Otherwise, our making a choice to believe on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ would be meaningless. We all could question God at the Judgment for why He made us do this or that.

This is a major principle that makes Christianity different from most religions of the world. The world's religions are about the idea of force against one's will, especially Islam. The fact that the Christian nations still allow those of the world's religions to follow what they want while only offering The Gospel through choice reveals this.

If you understand what Christ's coming Millennium reign is about, with the nations being made to bow to Christ then, but still... given the choice to not follow (like the end of Zech.14), that again shows God is long-suffering and wants everyone to come to repentance, but will not force us to.

 

[aspen]

They had to have free will to make the first choice. And afterwards, they still had free will to follow God's Ways or not, just as it still is for us today. Otherwise, our making a choice to believe on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ would be meaningless. We all could question God at the Judgment for why He made us do this or that.

This is a major principle that makes Christianity different from most religions of the world. The world's religions are about the idea of force against one's will, especially Islam. The fact that the Christian nations still allow those of the world's religions to follow what they want while only offering The Gospel through choice reveals this.

If you understand what Christ's coming Millennium reign is about, with the nations being made to bow to Christ then, but still... given the choice to not follow (like the end of Zech.14), that again shows God is long-suffering and wants everyone to come to repentance, but will not force us to.

I think we are missing each other.

Christ rightfully called us evil because we can only make less evil choices apart from Christ because of the curse of the Fall. Our fallen world is a maze of evil and less evil choices - look at our presidential election. Yes, we are free to choose between less evil choices, but we cannot choose between Good (perfect) choices apart from Christ.

Freewill is not limited to choosing between Good and Evil. This is an important idea because many Christians mistakenly believe that the first exercise of Freewill was eating the fruit - and since freewill is good, God secretly wanted us to eat the fruit (Mormon theology). This idea is incorrect.

 

[veteran]

I think we are missing each other.

Christ rightfully called us evil because we can only make less evil choices apart from Christ because of the curse of the Fall. Our fallen world is a maze of evil and less evil choices - look at our presidential election. Yes, we are free to choose between less evil choices, but we cannot choose between Good (perfect) choices apart from Christ.

Freewill is not limited to choosing between Good and Evil. This is an important idea because many Christians mistakenly believe that the first exercise of Freewill was eating the fruit - and since freewill is good, God secretly wanted us to eat the fruit (Mormon theology). This idea is incorrect.

Yeah, we are definitely missing each other, because we can decide to not choose evil.

The first Biblical recorded act of flesh man using free will choice was with Adam and Eve.

 

[aspen]

Yeah, we are definitely missing each other, because we can decide to not choose evil.

The first Biblical recorded act of flesh man using free will choice was with Adam and Eve.

Adam exercised freewill when he named the animals.