Assurance of salvation

[Lively Stone]

Hmmm..but He is there..We walk in God daily, whether we are saved or not..He is everywhere..no where on Heaven or earth or even hell..That His presence is not there....

The scripture that says that uses the word hell, which stands for the grave (Sheol, Hades)...not the term, "hell" that we use to denote the Lake of Fire.

The time of Judgment is at the end of all things, where the bible draws a line under God's sojourn with earthly man and the Earth that he has lived on for thousands of years, and His plan of redemption. He will not be in the place where He will confine evil away from Himself and His Kingdom and His people.

 

[aspen]

I know this idea is not popular......but I have a sneaky suspicion that the writers of the NT were not writing a detailed doctrine of Hell, Hades or whatever you want to call it. They knew that souls needed Christ's sacrifice to be saved and they knew that without it, souls would be separated from God.

Even the NT writers viewed God and the reality of our spiritual destiny, through a clouded glass.

 

[Justinian 1]

You share many of my beliefs Aspen. Are most Catholics like you?

 

[aspen]

I am not sure if I can comment on most Catholics.

 

[elysian]

As long as we feel God's presence, it's heaven. If we don't, it is hell.

 

[jiggyfly]

I know this idea is not popular......but I have a sneaky suspicion that the writers of the NT were not writing a detailed doctrine of Hell, Hades or whatever you want to call it. They knew that souls needed Christ's sacrifice to be saved and they knew that without it, souls would be separated from God.

Even the NT writers viewed God and the reality of our spiritual destiny, through a clouded glass.

I share the same suspicion Aspen, must be why Paul describes the message he was called by God to preach as the "good news" and not the bad news.

 

[RichardBurger]

Then by your opinion here God is not omnipresent.

According to Merriam-Websters Dictionary omnipresent means : present in all places at all times

I don't think that is a logical conclusion. If God choses to not be present in the "lake of fire" he can certainly not be present. And that does not mean He can't be present if He wishes.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't think that is a logical conclusion. If God choses to not be present in the "lake of fire" he can certainly not be present. And that does not mean He can't be present if He wishes.

The lake of fire is God's presence, i.e. his hatred of sin. Christ said he will draw all men to himself, some for good, some for bad.

 

[Lively Stone]

The lake of fire is God's presence, i.e. his hatred of sin. Christ said he will draw all men to himself, some for good, some for bad.

Can you give scriptural proof that the place of eternal damnation and separation from God is God's presence?

 

[jiggyfly]

I don't think that is a logical conclusion. If God choses to not be present in the "lake of fire" he can certainly not be present. And that does not mean He can't be present if He wishes.

According to the definition of omnipresent if God is not in the lake of fire then He can not possibly be omnipresent.

The lake of fire is God's presence, i.e. his hatred of sin. Christ said he will draw all men to himself, some for good, some for bad.

I agree I to believe that the lake of fire is God's presence and Love.

 

[Lively Stone]

I agree I to believe that the lake of fire is God's presence and Love.

Can you give scriptural proof for such a belief?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

According to the definition of omnipresent if God is not in the lake of fire then He can not possibly be omnipresent.

That's a good point and good logic.

 

[Lively Stone]

That's a good point and good logic.

Can you answer the question I posed you earlier?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Can you give scriptural proof that the place of eternal damnation and separation from God is God's presence?

No, because your question is logically flawed. It contains an assumption that the place of eternal damnation is separation from God. You're asking me to prove something based on your unproven assumption. That's impossible. Can you prove the place of eternal damnation is separation from God?

The place of eternal damnation is obviously separation from the city of God, but I think that is as far as you will be able to go with that idea.

 

[Lively Stone]

No, because your question is logically flawed. It contains an assumption that the place of eternal damnation is separation from God. You're asking me to prove something based on your unproven assumption. Can you prove the place of eternal damnation is separation from God?

The place of eternal damnation is obviously separation from the city of God, but I think that is as far as you will be able to go with that idea.

I have no flawed assumption. I appreciate you saying you cannot offer scripture to support your belief that God is also in the place of eternal damnation.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I have no flawed assumption. I appreciate you saying you cannot offer scripture to support your belief that God is also in the place of eternal damnation.

I didn't say your assumption was flawed. I said the question as framed is logically flawed.

Can you offer scripture to support your belief that the place of eternal damnation is separation from God? To demonstrate that it is not based on an assumption?

 

[jiggyfly]

Can you give scriptural proof for such a belief?

No need for scripture if you understood what omnipresent means. Can you give scripture that proves He is not?

 

[Lively Stone]

No need for scripture if you understood what omnipresent means. Can you give scripture that proves He is not?

Can you give scripture where 'omnipresent ' is used? Arguing over an imperfect word used to describe God and trying to force it to fit Him is really foolish.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (NLT)

They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.

 

[jiggyfly]

Can you give scripture where 'omnipresent ' is used? Arguing over an imperfect word used to describe God and trying to force it to fit Him is really foolish.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (NLT)

They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.

Your the one who used it and then contradicted it. ^_^

 

[Lively Stone]

Your the one who used it and then contradicted it. ^_^

Not really. The day of Judgment is the end, where God dispatches all evil.