Assurance of salvation

[RichardBurger]

The liberty in Christ is not to be freed from the guilt of sins you keep committing. The power of Christ liberates you from the power of sin. The fact that you don't know this liberty shows that you should not be preaching from the bible...as you have not yet become a witness of Christ and HIS salvation from sin.

We are created to do good. You call this works. OK We are created to do good works. You are blinded to the truth. You see the word "works" and you go into your Pavlov' dog indoctrination...

I have a verse for you to drool over...

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If you do not do good works then your salvation is bogus. You are confused by Paul's writing that we are not saved by works OF THE LAW.

But the grace of God caused us to DO (work) the things of God. If we don't DO then we are not His.

Do a study about DOING and works, THEN come back to the forum and actually use biblical arguments.

My works will not save me. My belief, faith, trust and confidence in Jesus' work on the cross does.

When will you ever preach the gospel of grace that allows God to save sinners by their faith, not by works? You do not preach the cross. All you write about is you wonderful power you say you have to not sin. You do this when you know very well that you sin just like every one else.

What you want to do is to establish that you are better than others.

Romans 14:4
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
NKJV

 

[Episkopos]

My works will not save me. My belief, faith, trust and confidence in Jesus' work on the cross does.

When will you ever preach the gospel of grace that allows God to save sinners by their faith, not by works? You do not preach the cross. All you write about is you wonderful power you say you have to not sin. You do this when you know very well that you sin just like every one else.

What you want to do is to establish that you are better than others.

Romans 14:4
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
NKJV

You are smokescreening here and mocking what you don't understand.

A Christian doesn't just believe in a scheme as presented by televangelists. You have been brainwashed.

The TV is meant for entertainment..not truth.

The truth in Jesus Christ is according to a divine birth in the Spirit by the will of God. A NEW CREATURE in Christ is FILLED with the Spirit. Can you add anything to FULL?

So if we are filled with Christ, then what room is there for anything else.

Jesus said..out of you will flow RIVERS OF LIVING WATER. So if we are filled to overflowing, where does sin get in??? From Christ?

We are to act like fountains that dispense the life of Christ to others, like Jesus is at the top of the fountain overflowing into our cups...which in turn overflow into the world around us.

When a man is full, even the best looking meal in the world is not coveted or hungered for, In Christ we are FILLED...and we are not affected by the lusts of the flesh. The flesh is needy...the man in Christ is filled NOT needy!

Try to understand this..

Rom_13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Eph_4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph_3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

“This I say then: Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the works of the flesh. Gal. 5:16

This is what you are unwittingly doing Richard...

Jud_1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

 

[RichardBurger]

Jesus said..out of you will flow RIVERS OF LIVING WATER. So if we are filled to overflowing, where does sin get in??? From Christ?

We are to act like fountains that dispense the life of Christ to others, like Jesus is at the top of the fountain overflowing into our cups...which in turn overflow into the world around us.

Try to understand this..

Rom_13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Eph_4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph_3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

“This I say then: Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the works of the flesh. Gal. 5:16

This is what you are unwittingly doing Richard...

Jud_1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

The works of the flesh is self-righteousness. You are unwittingly preaching a gospel of works and your gospel will not save anyone.

Since you think you will get to heaven by your works gospel; if God asks you why you think you should be there are you going to claim your preaching of your gospel of works, or the work of Jesus on the cross???

 

[Episkopos]

The works of the flesh is self-righteousness. You are unwittingly preaching a gospel of works and your gospel will not save anyone.

Since you think you will get to heaven by your works gospel; if God asks you why you think you should be there are you going to claim your preaching of your gospel of works, or the work of Jesus on the cross???

The work of Jesus? You are preaching works...

I am the one preaching the works of Christ. You are preaching death through a continued commitment to sin (and mocking those who have faith in God) in the face of the works of God.

 

[RichardBurger]

The work of Jesus? You are preaching works...

I am the one preaching the works of Christ. You are preaching death through a continued commitment to sin (and mocking those who have faith in God) in the face of the works of God.

I have never preached works.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

An old reply by me "We overcome by placing our faith in Him, not by having faith in our works,"

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV

There is that word "HAS" again meaning it is accomplished and I don't see anything about our works.

So tell me Episkopos, how is it that I preach works?

 

[jiggyfly]

I know you will not see it but Jesus was talking to the Jews who were under the Law of Moses, and not to the Gentiles under grace.

Yes your right Jesus was speaking to Jews but He was speaking of the kingdom of Heaven being like ten virgins. So I do not see how your thought of the audience there has any effect on Jesus' descriptive parable of what the kingdom of Heaven would be like.

 

[Episkopos]

I have never preached works.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

An old reply by me "We overcome by placing our faith in Him, not by having faith in our works,"

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV

There is that word "HAS" again meaning it is accomplished and I don't see anything about our works.

So tell me Episkopos, how is it that I preach works?

Do you ever try not to sin? or you indulge every whim of the body?

So if you indulge the flesh...you are a heathen. If you try NOT to sin then you are trying to work righteousness.

 

[RichardBurger]

Do you ever try not to sin? or you indulge every whim of the body?

*************** Have you stopped sinning in your flesh? Because I say the sinful flesh can not stop sinning does that mean I sin more than you ar others? Unless you can claim sinlessness you are a blind judge and a hypocrite. ******

So if you indulge the flesh...you are a heathen. If you try NOT to sin then you are trying to work righteousness.

**************** Who says I indulge the flesh? I have been set free of it. But, obviously you have not because you are still concerned in your flesh. To me that means you are living in the flesh. As for me I discount the sins of my flesh knowing that I am no longer condemned by them. **********

According to the sciptures I can not make my flesh perfect by my works.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

I came on this forum teaching the gospel of grace and in every OP just about everyone has tried to say I am wrong. They can't stand grace because they want a gospel where others can see their religious works and indicate that they are sinless because of what they believe.

I am sinless in the spirit because I believe God; I believe He loves me so much that He sent His Son to shed His blood on the cross to reconcile me to Himself. I do not believe salvation is a work of Man so that he can boast of what he, himself does.

 

[TWC]

Matthew 7:21-29

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching,because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

 

[Episkopos]

According to the sciptures I can not make my flesh perfect by my works.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

I came on this forum teaching the gospel of grace and in every OP just about everyone has tried to say I am wrong. They can't stand grace because they want a gospel where others can see their religious works and indicate that they are sinless because of what they believe.

I am sinless in the spirit because I believe God; I believe He loves me so much that He sent His Son to shed His blood on the cross to reconcile me to Himself. I do not believe salvation is a work of Man so that he can boast of what he, himself does.

You actually teach the denial of the power of Christ. Let not many of us become teachers...

You teach that grace is a get into heaven free card. You teach sin in the flesh, but salvation of the spirit because you trust in a religious formula that has Jesus dying for your constant irresponsibility where sin is concerned.

We are not being made perfect by the flesh...but by the Spirit! We do not remain sinners in the Spirit...that is the heresy that you teach.

Being set free does not mean we sin without any consequences..it means set free FROM sin altogether.

The bible states the opposite of your scheme. We are not to sin to prove grace is effective. We are to be dead to sin and alive to God. Our witness is not that we believe a scheme that justifies us IN our sins. Any religious weirdo can claim anything they like. ...like MY sins don't count and yours do!!!! This is the height of hypocrisy and a false representation of the true gospel according to grace.

 

[RichardBurger]

Being set free does not mean we sin without any consequences..it means set free FROM sin altogether.

I can agree with this if it means that the child of God is spiritually set free from sin. However I have never met a person living in sinful flesh that does not sin in that flesh.

 

[Episkopos]

I can agree with this if it means that the child of God is spiritually set free from sin. However I have never met a person living in sinful flesh that does not sin in that flesh.

This is very unfortunate and really a sign of the times. How many really have faith? How many have really entered into Christ?

As for the necessity of a death to sin..

Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.


1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

We are not just the Lord's in spirit but also in Body to live in a way that glorifies Him....and this is without sin. The Body is the temple of holiness to they who are indwelt by Christ through the Spirit.

 

[aspen]

This is very unfortunate and really a sign of the times. How many really have faith? How many have really entered into Christ?

Don't you like God placed us in the best place in time for our justification and sanctification? Why would He work against us if He loves us? I think you are going to be surprised to see how many people are actually in Heaven, God is not going to fail to save His creation.

 

[Episkopos]

Don't you like God placed us in the best place in time for our justification and sanctification? Why would He work against us if He loves us? I think you are going to be surprised to see how many people are actually in Heaven, God is not going to fail to save His creation.

I think we will be surprised at how few are in the Bride of Christ compared with all those who claim to love Him (yet live in unfaithfulness)

 

[aspen]

I think we will be surprised at how few are in the Bride of Christ compared with all those who claim to love Him (yet live in unfaithfulness)

Then you must have a pretty low opinion of God's power.

 

[Episkopos]

Then you must have a pretty low opinion of God's power.

Or His permissiveness!

 

[aspen]

Or His permissiveness!

Really?! Don't you realize that in your schema of Judgment, God loses every time a person refuses to follow Him?

 

[Episkopos]

Really?! Don't you realize that in your schema of Judgment, God loses every time a person refuses to follow Him?

God has created many billions of us so that the required number may be present at the revealing of His glory. It is those who will be absent that are the losers.

 

[aspen]

God has created many billions of us so that the required number may be present at the revealing of His glory. It is those who will be absent that are the losers.

Your concept of God sort of sounds like a fish....spawning thousands of eggs, knowing that most will be eaten before they grow up? Wow, sounds like a loving Father to me......yikes.

My God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, love, and Good.

 

[logabe]

Mostly accurate...especially the 2 step understanding of being saved FROM and saved TO something. We are not created to be saved, there is the purpose of God to consider.

However, the immature in Christ do not have a second chance AFTER death in the second resurrection. The 2nd resurrection is for the nations that KNOW NOT GOD.

Those who are disobedient to the Lord after the initial salvation will be cut off from the presence of God and

wander forever in shame and bear their own reproach

.

Episkopo... I have a question for you.

Do you believe that Israel will have a second opportunity to make things right with God?
If not... explain Romans 11:26 to me.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved:

Now explain to me why God is not going to give the nations the same opportunity. Is God
a respector of persons?

Logabe