Assurance of salvation

[Episkopos]

Your concept of God sort of sounds like a fish....spawning thousands of eggs, knowing that most will be eaten before they grow up? Wow, sounds like a loving Father to me......yikes.

My God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, love, and Good.

He is also a God of truth judgment and righteousness. God does not rejoice at the death of the wicked. We should be careful to not become humanistic in our view of God. How can God attach Himself to what is not holy? We may sin and override wisdom in our own affections, but God most assuredly cannot.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopo... I have a question for you.

Do you believe that Israel will have a second opportunity to make things right with God?
If not... explain Romans 11:26 to me.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved:

Now explain to me why God is not going to give the nations the same opportunity. Is God
a respector of persons?

Logabe

Logabe you are certainly a servant of my Master! I appreciate your posts!

God will not give Israel in the flesh another chance. God has permanently chosen to have Christ be the doorway to Himself. We each live our lives and then comes judgment. God chooses some among us but He will never save an entire nation according to the flesh.

All Israel is the joining together of Ephraim and Judah who's sticks were broken but are now being brought together to be one stick in His hand, having one shepherd! Ez. 37:19-28

The Gentiles are represented by Ephraim in the Spirit. We are the fulness of the Gentiles. We are not meant to be on our own but be fused with Israel by the Spirit into thre Israel of God...both Jews and Joes (Joseph).

So ALL ISRAEL is the WHOLE ISRAEL of GOD. AS Jesus said...other sheep do I have and together they shall be one flock. Remember the Lord said OTHER sheep..not the same sheep. John 10:16 We are those other sheep come to add the fulness of the Gentiles so that ALL men are represented in the Bride of Christ. God has no favourites but all who fear Him and cleave to Him in love are His.

It may be easier to understand what Paul is saying by translating his words as... "and SO Israel shall be made whole again".

The key is in the word "so". Translators have divided the idea into two different verses. But Paul did not do this.

until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so (in this way) the whole Israel shall be saved:

Israel has ALWAYS been a nation and a congregation of the nations. God said this of Jacob (Israel)

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations (a congregation of gentiles) shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Also the fulness of the Gentiles IS Ephraim..

Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim means double fruit) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
Actually the right words are : the fulness of nations. In Hebrew it is melo hagoyim....which can only mean FULNESS of the nations.

 

[RichardBurger]

Logabe you are certainly a servant of my Master! I appreciate your posts!

God will not give Israel in the flesh another chance. God has permanently chosen to have Christ be the doorway to Himself. We each live our lives and then comes judgment. God chooses some among us but He will never save an entire nation according to the flesh.

All Israel is the joining together of Ephraim and Judah who's sticks were broken but are now being brought together to be one stick in His hand, having one shepherd! Ez. 37:19-28

The Gentiles are represented by Ephraim in the Spirit. We are the fulness of the Gentiles. We are not meant to be on our own but be fused with Israel by the Spirit into thre Israel of God...both Jews and Joes (Joseph).

So ALL ISRAEL is the WHOLE ISRAEL of GOD. AS Jesus said...other sheep do I have and together they shall be one flock. Remember the Lord said OTHER sheep..not the same sheep. John 10:16 We are those other sheep come to add the fulness of the Gentiles so that ALL men are represented in the Bride of Christ. God has no favourites but all who fear Him and cleave to Him in love are His.

It may be easier to understand what Paul is saying by translating his words as... "and SO Israel shall be made whole again".

The key is in the word "so". Translators have divided the idea into two different verses. But Paul did not do this.

until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so (in this way) the whole Israel shall be saved:

Israel has ALWAYS been a nation and a congregation of the nations. God said this of Jacob (Israel)

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations (a congregation of gentiles) shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Also the fulness of the Gentiles IS Ephraim..

Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim means double fruit) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
Actually the right words are : the fulness of nations. In Hebrew it is melo hagoyim....which can only mean FULNESS of the nations.

No wonder you are so mixed up. God is not through with Israel and those "in Christ" are not made jews.

 

[aspen]

He is also a God of truth judgment and righteousness. God does not rejoice at the death of the wicked. We should be careful to not become humanistic in our view of God. How can God attach Himself to what is not holy? We may sin and override wisdom in our own affections, but God most assuredly cannot.

We also need to be careful not to compartmentalize experimental truth from what we hold to be true about God. Cognitive dissonance (the gap between what we know to be true and our ideals) should be as small as possible. Humanism is not evil if it points to God - it is just the study of human potential - Jesuits are humanists and they are devout Christians.

Our affections are just as important as our mind - the Reformers were passionate people! I think would be surprised that many Protestants today have become so trapped in their minds.

Finally, this comes down to an issue of God's character. Of course He is Just, but His Justice is married to His Mercy. Hell, for example, is a Mercy! It is a place where the unredeemed can flee from eternity with a Holy God, which would be complete agony. It is Just and it is Merciful.

 

[logabe]

Logabe you are certainly a servant of my Master! I appreciate your posts!

God will not give Israel in the flesh another chance. God has permanently chosen to have Christ be the doorway to Himself. We each live our lives and then comes judgment. God chooses some among us but He will never save an entire nation according to the flesh.

All Israel is the joining together of Ephraim and Judah who's sticks were broken but are now being brought together to be one stick in His hand, having one shepherd! Ez. 37:19-28

The Gentiles are represented by Ephraim in the Spirit. We are the fulness of the Gentiles. We are not meant to be on our own but be fused with Israel by the Spirit into thre Israel of God...both Jews and Joes (Joseph).

So ALL ISRAEL is the WHOLE ISRAEL of GOD. AS Jesus said...other sheep do I have and together they shall be one flock. Remember the Lord said OTHER sheep..not the same sheep. John 10:16 We are those other sheep come to add the fulness of the Gentiles so that ALL men are represented in the Bride of Christ. God has no favourites but all who fear Him and cleave to Him in love are His.

It may be easier to understand what Paul is saying by translating his words as... "and SO Israel shall be made whole again".

The key is in the word "so". Translators have divided the idea into two different verses. But Paul did not do this.

until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so (in this way) the whole Israel shall be saved:

Israel has ALWAYS been a nation and a congregation of the nations. God said this of Jacob (Israel)

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations (a congregation of gentiles) shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Also the fulness of the Gentiles IS Ephraim..

Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim means double fruit) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
Actually the right words are : the fulness of nations. In Hebrew it is melo hagoyim....which can only mean FULNESS of the nations.

Wow... you sure have made the scriptures to none effect. I'm interested in how
you will explain away Romans 8:21,

21 Because the creation itself also shall be delivered from
the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the
children of God.

What is the creation Paul is talking about? Could that be everything that God
created? Could it be even unbelievers too? What's your take on it.

Logabe

 

[Episkopos]

We also need to be careful not to compartmentalize experimental truth from what we hold to be true about God. Cognitive dissonance (the gap between what we know to be true and our ideals) should be as small as possible. Humanism is not evil if it points to God - it is just the study of human potential - Jesuits are humanists and they are devout Christians.

Our affections are just as important as our mind - the Reformers were passionate people! I think would be surprised that many Protestants today have become so trapped in their minds.

Finally, this comes down to an issue of God's character. Of course He is Just, but His Justice is married to His Mercy. Hell, for example, is a Mercy! It is a place where the unredeemed can flee from eternity with a Holy God, which would be complete agony. It is Just and it is Merciful.

HAve you considered that God equips those He called to actually BE holy...not just tolerate them?

Only then is both mercy AND truth satisfied. Think about it.

Wow... you sure have made the scriptures to none effect. I'm interested in how
you will explain away Romans 8:21,

21 Because the creation itself also shall be delivered from
the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the
children of God.

What is the creation Paul is talking about? Could that be everything that God
created? Could it be even unbelievers too? What's your take on it.

Logabe

There is a new heaven and a new earth coming.

 

[logabe]

HAve you considered that God equips those He called to actually BE holy...not just tolerate them?

Only then is both mercy AND truth satisfied. Think about it.

There is a new heaven and a new earth coming.

Come on Episkopos... that's not what I ask you... now give me a good answer. Did
Paul mean the "WHOLE CREATION" or did he mean God was going to kill everyone
and start over. There's a lot of people waiting on your answer. Romans 8: 22 says,

22 For we know that the "WHOLE CREATION" groaneth and
travaileth in pain together until now.

Brother, the Whole Creation is waiting for us as believers to stand on the Word that
God has spoken. If God speaks, it will come to pass. God said, he swears, the whole
creation will be delivered one day and that same CREATION is waiting on God's
command whether they are conscious of it or not.

Logabe

 

[Episkopos]

Come on Episkopos... that's not what I ask you... now give me a good answer. Did
Paul mean the "WHOLE CREATION" or did he mean God was going to kill everyone
and start over. There's a lot of people waiting on your answer. Romans 8: 22 says,

22 For we know that the "WHOLE CREATION" groaneth and
travaileth in pain together until now.

Brother, the Whole Creation is waiting for us as believers to stand on the Word that
God has spoken. If God speaks, it will come to pass. God said, he swears, the whole
creation will be delivered one day and that same CREATION is waiting on God's
command whether they are conscious of it or not.

Logabe

This includes the angels of course.

Are you advocating a universal salvation?

 

[logabe]

This includes the angels of course.

Are you advocating a universal salvation?

No... are you saying that is what Paul is advocating because he's the one that wrote it? I'm
asking you... do you believe what he is saying or do you have your own take on what he is
saying. I think I know what he is saying but it's surely not what most Christians believe.

If the whole creation is waiting for this event to happen... my question would be why, if most
of them are going to hell anyway, but Paul makes it as a positive while most think of it as a
negative. He says the whole creation is waiting for the manifestation of the Sons of God.

Why are they waiting? Paul says... not me... because they will be set FREE. Why would he
say that if it's not true. Doesn't ALL CREATION mean everything that God ever created?
Help me out here. Do you have a little Hebrew or Greek that can explain ALL CREATION?

Logabe

 

[Episkopos]

No... are you saying that is what Paul is advocating because he's the one that wrote it? I'm
asking you... do you believe what he is saying or do you have your own take on what he is
saying. I think I know what he is saying but it's surely not what most Christians believe.

If the whole creation is waiting for this event to happen... my question would be why, if most
of them are going to hell anyway, but Paul makes it as a positive while most think of it as a
negative. He says the whole creation is waiting for the manifestation of the Sons of God.

Why are they waiting? Paul says... not me... because they will be set FREE. Why would he
say that if it's not true. Doesn't ALL CREATION mean everything that God ever created?
Help me out here. Do you have a little Hebrew or Greek that can explain ALL CREATION?

Logabe

It appears that Paul is referring to the fallen creation that is crying out because of the absence of God. There is a new heaven and earth coming......a paradise that all of creation yearns for.

 

[veteran]

The "creature" (Greek ktsis) Paul speaks of in Rom.8 is about the 'idea' of the earth creation with it's animals and such. Paul makes a distinction between it and us while declaring how both have been put into bondage by God. It's on par with what Peter was teaching in 2 Pet.3 about the "world that then was" and "the heavens and the earth, which are now."

How might that ktsis also include the unjust? Our Lord Jesus and His Apostle Paul did teach a difference between two resurrection types, one unto eternal life and another unto damnation (John 5:28-29; 1 Cor.15; Acts 24:15). The main point about the unjust in that is, that they are going to be resurrected also, but stand in judgment during Christ's Millennium reign. Not all souls are going to have eternal life because of still refusing Christ Jesus.

So Paul's Message in Rom.8 about the 'creation' being taken out of bondage it's been in during this present world cannot annul those who will perish for refusing Christ Jesus.

 

[aspen]

Episkopos

Name one person alive today (besides Jesus) who is holy.

Thanks.

 

[logabe]

The "creature" (Greek ktsis) Paul speaks of in Rom.8 is about the 'idea' of the earth creation with it's animals and such. Paul makes a distinction between it and us while declaring how both have been put into bondage by God. It's on par with what Peter was teaching in 2 Pet.3 about the "world that then was" and "the heavens and the earth, which are now."

How might that ktsis also include the unjust? Our Lord Jesus and His Apostle Paul did teach a difference between two resurrection types, one unto eternal life and another unto damnation (John 5:28-29; 1 Cor.15; Acts 24:15). The main point about the unjust in that is, that they are going to be resurrected also, but stand in judgment during Christ's Millennium reign. Not all souls are going to have eternal life because of still refusing Christ Jesus.

So Paul's Message in Rom.8 about the 'creation' being taken out of bondage it's been in during this present world

cannot annul those who will perish for refusing Christ Jesus

First of all Veteran, I will use a little Greek when referencing damnation. The Greek
word used is krisis which means, decision (for or against) by extens. a tribunal; by
impl. justice (spec. divine law) accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

When we look @ other scriptures, we will find that damnation probably wouldn't be
a very accurate word to use when translating krisis. Let me explain.

Let's take a look @ Hebrews 9:27,

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after
this the judgment (damnation).

Krisis is the greek word translated in the english as judgment. Wonder why they
didn't use damnation? You might say, it still means basically the same thing. Well,
let's see what judgment is for. Matthew 12:20 says,

20 till he sends forth judgment unto victory.

Yep, you guessed it, same word krisis. Now, how would "damnation" sound in that
scripture.

20 till he sends forth damnation unto victory.

Judgment will be passed down to every man and woman that didn't accept the blood
of the Lamb in their life time. Krisis is the same word as crisis in the english language
and we all know what crisis means. At the Great White Throne Judgment there will be
sentences passed down and it will be similar to an earthly court room where the judge
sentences people for their crime.

So that's not such a big deal, they still will be thrown into the Lake of Fire forever, right?
Jesus said in Matthew 18:30,

30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison,
till he should pay the debt.


Till, I believe that means @ some point he has to get out of prison. According to the
english language, "till", blows forever out of the water. What's the big deal? The big
deal is understanding the purpose God has for the creation. The reason the Whole
Creation is waiting for this Day of Judgment, is because God will correct them in the
same manner as he is correcting us now.

In that Day, they will be put under authority for the Purpose of learning righteousness.
Isa. 27:9 says,

9 for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants
of the world learn righteousness.

You're going to love the Hebrew reference for judgments, for it confirms what the
scriptures are saying about the ultimate outcome of the unsaved. My question is what
is the purpose of an earthly penal system? It's suppose to correct the offender and
cause him to think about breaking the law when he is released from containment.

It works the same way with God. As a matter of fact, man got it from God. The idea
was to correct and restore the criminal so when he was released from prison, he could
be of use in the society.

The first death was the creation paying for the sins of their father Adam. For the wages
of sin is death. The Lake of Fire is the second death where the ones that didn't take the
opportunity to accept Jesus as Savior in this life, will have to pay for their own sins in
prison until they learn to forgive everyone his trespasses. Isa. 55:6-7 says,

6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon
him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous
man his thoughts: and let him return to the Lord, and he
will have mercy upon him: and to our God, for he will
abundantly pardon.

Do you know what your inheritance will be? You will never guess what God says it will
be. Let's go to Psalms and see what God told David. Psalms 2:8,

8 Ask of me, and I will give thee the heathen for thine
inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy
possession.

We are going to inherit the HEATHEN and the UTTERMOST parts of the earth. That's a
lot of heathens. I could go on and on but let us finish with this. Psalms 22:27,

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto
the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship
before thee.

The whole world according to David will remember and the only way they can remember
is by the Holy Ghost. John 14:26 says,

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the
father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things,
and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I
have said unto you.

Do you believe it?

Logabe

 

[jiggyfly]

Always a pleasure to read your posts Logabe. God bless.

 

[Vashti]

indeed, the translation of the concept of "all creation" as the "earth, animals and worms" sounds a little strange, especially with belief in condemnation 99 % and somethin of humanity.

Personally I can not believe that God gave the Son for the salvation of the world, the Son offered the sacrifice, enough for everyone, but now God washes his hands calmly watching as most of humanity going straight to hell.

I do not speak of universal salvation, but also I do not believe in universal condemnation (except for a handful of believers).
It known that Jesus is the way, and the truth, and the life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him... But it known also, that with man nothing is impossible, but not with God. "For all things are possible with God."( Mar 10:27 )...

I do not believe that my whole family will go to eternal fire ... Maybe they will drink from the cup of God's wrath, but not to the eternal fire - I do not believe it, because God is good.

 

[veteran]

First of all Veteran, I will use a little Greek when referencing damnation. The Greek
word used is krisis which means, decision (for or against) by extens. a tribunal; by
impl. justice (spec. divine law) accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

When we look @ other scriptures, we will find that damnation probably wouldn't be
a very accurate word to use when translating krisis. Let me explain.

Let's take a look @ Hebrews 9:27,

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after
this the judgment (damnation).

Krisis is the greek word translated in the english as judgment. Wonder why they
didn't use damnation? You might say, it still means basically the same thing. Well,
let's see what judgment is for. Matthew 12:20 says,

20 till he sends forth judgment unto victory.

Yep, you guessed it, same word krisis. Now, how would "damnation" sound in that
scripture.

20 till he sends forth damnation unto victory.

Judgment will be passed down to every man and woman that didn't accept the blood
of the Lamb in their life time. Krisis is the same word as crisis in the english language
and we all know what crisis means. At the Great White Throne Judgment there will be
sentences passed down and it will be similar to an earthly court room where the judge
sentences people for their crime.

So that's not such a big deal, they still will be thrown into the Lake of Fire forever, right?
Jesus said in Matthew 18:30,

30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison,
till he should pay the debt.


Till, I believe that means @ some point he has to get out of prison. According to the
english language, "till", blows forever out of the water. What's the big deal? The big
deal is understanding the purpose God has for the creation. The reason the Whole
Creation is waiting for this Day of Judgment, is because God will correct them in the
same manner as he is correcting us now.

In that Day, they will be put under authority for the Purpose of learning righteousness.
Isa. 27:9 says,

9 for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants
of the world learn righteousness.

You're going to love the Hebrew reference for judgments, for it confirms what the
scriptures are saying about the ultimate outcome of the unsaved. My question is what
is the purpose of an earthly penal system? It's suppose to correct the offender and
cause him to think about breaking the law when he is released from containment.

It works the same way with God. As a matter of fact, man got it from God. The idea
was to correct and restore the criminal so when he was released from prison, he could
be of use in the society.

The first death was the creation paying for the sins of their father Adam. For the wages
of sin is death. The Lake of Fire is the second death where the ones that didn't take the
opportunity to accept Jesus as Savior in this life, will have to pay for their own sins in
prison until they learn to forgive everyone his trespasses. Isa. 55:6-7 says,

6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon
him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous
man his thoughts: and let him return to the Lord, and he
will have mercy upon him: and to our God, for he will
abundantly pardon.

Do you know what your inheritance will be? You will never guess what God says it will
be. Let's go to Psalms and see what God told David. Psalms 2:8,

8 Ask of me, and I will give thee the heathen for thine
inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy
possession.

We are going to inherit the HEATHEN and the UTTERMOST parts of the earth. That's a
lot of heathens. I could go on and on but let us finish with this. Psalms 22:27,

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto
the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship
before thee.

The whole world according to David will remember and the only way they can remember
is by the Holy Ghost. John 14:26 says,

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the
father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things,
and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I
have said unto you.

Do you believe it?

Logabe

In the context of other Scripture like Rev.20, Rev.22:14-15, Matt.8:12, 22:13, 25:30, Zech.14, and Ezek.44, yes.

But that is for the time of Christ's "thousand years" reign what you speak of.


Ps 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
(KJV)

The Rev.20 "lake of fire" event is about perdition in the absolute sense. Like Apostle Paul, I myself have a hope in BOTH a resurrection of the Just, AND a resurrection of the unjust (Acts.24:15). If we are found worthy of the resurrection of life through Christ when He returns, we will rule over those of the resurrection of unjust. That's who the nations of Zech.14 and Rev.20:7-9 will be during Christ's "thousand years" reign.

However, per that Rev.20:7-9 Scripture, when Satan is loosed one final time at the end of that "thousand years" reign, many of the unjust are still... going to follow the devil in coming up against the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city". With Christ Jesus and His elect reigning over all nations in that time, and all peoples KNOWING He is God The Saviour, being fully revealed to all, and His elect teaching all peoples God's Ways during that thousand years, none will have an excuse at the end of that period to still follow after the devil.

Here's the reason why those that still choose to follow the devil at the end of the thousand years must... perish with him in the "lake of fire"...

Isa 65:17-19
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
(KJV)

After the "lake of fire" event, God is going to 'create' His saints in Jerusalem "a joy". In other words, He is going to re-fashion us to not remember the old world and the idea of rebellion against Him. The wicked who perish with the devil, the abode of hell, and death, will not be a part of that being made a joy.


Nahum 1:7-10
7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and He knoweth them that trust in Him.
8 But with an overrunning flood He will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue His enemies.
9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.
(KJV)

That is HOW there will not be a second rebellion against Him like what the devil caused in the world that then was.

indeed, the translation of the concept of "all creation" as the "earth, animals and worms" sounds a little strange, especially with belief in condemnation 99 % and somethin of humanity.

Personally I can not believe that God gave the Son for the salvation of the world, the Son offered the sacrifice, enough for everyone, but now God washes his hands calmly watching as most of humanity going straight to hell.

I do not speak of universal salvation, but also I do not believe in universal condemnation (except for a handful of believers).
It known that Jesus is the way, and the truth, and the life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him... But it known also, that with man nothing is impossible, but not with God. "For all things are possible with God."( Mar 10:27 )...

I do not believe that my whole family will go to eternal fire ... Maybe they will drink from the cup of God's wrath, but not to the eternal fire - I do not believe it, because God is good.

I understand what you mean, and it's my hope also that ALL... would come to The Father through His Son Jesus Christ, just as Peter said in 2 Peter 3:9, that God wants all to come to repentance, not willing that any should perish.

But is that going to happen? No, not according to what our Heavenly Father has already revealed to us in His Word. In my above post I showed some of the why that is.

 

[Vashti]

I am not saying that all will come to the Father ...
But that I hope it will not be as tragic as it looks today ...

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos

Name one person alive today (besides Jesus) who is holy.

Thanks.

No one who is popular that's for sure! Jesus lived as an obscure prophet speaking an obscure language in an obscure place. You need to look there for the followers of the Master.

 

[aspen]

No one who is popular that's for sure! Jesus lived as an obscure prophet speaking an obscure language in an obscure place. You need to look there for the followers of the Master.

Well, then this statement you made really makes no sense:

"HAve you considered that God equips those He called to actually BE holy...not just tolerate them? Only then is both mercy AND truth satisfied. Think about it."

 

[Episkopos]

Well, then this statement you made really makes no sense:

"HAve you considered that God equips those He called to actually BE holy...not just tolerate them? Only then is both mercy AND truth satisfied. Think about it."

In other words why would God seek to turn a blind eye towards something He condemns? Does He make it LOOK like we become righteous or does He make a new creation based on faith?