I have a hard time trying to tell my friends that one day we will find the ark and proove the existence. They argue that so much rain in 40 days is impossible, and also they ball off about dinosaurs, and how did the animal fit etc.
Atheist friends mock me about Noah and the Ark
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Putting up with mockery is part of being Christian. I wouldn't count on the prospect of a historic artifact being found to vindicate you, it may never be found. Even if there were some new evidence that validated something in the bible people still wouldn't believe. Even if the dead came back and told people to believe they wouldn't.
All your required to do is to give a reason for your faith to them. And show them how your being transformed into a more godly person. If you feel so inclined, perhaps you could pray for them too. What becomes of them is between them and God. You may even need to distance yourself from these friends one day.
All your required to do is to give a reason for your faith to them. And show them how your being transformed into a more godly person. If you feel so inclined, perhaps you could pray for them too. What becomes of them is between them and God. You may even need to distance yourself from these friends one day.
Keep in mind, there are plenty of Christians who don't share the fundamentalists' view on the flood story either. IMO, the historical evidence is pretty clear that the Hebrews "borrowed" the story from their Babylonian captors and put their own Jewish spin on it. Various cultures have borrowed and modified legends from each other throughout history, and I see no reason to believe the Jewish people were somehow immune to that.
Didn't they find the Ark in the mountains of Ararat, in Turkey, just where the Bible said it is? There were expeditions there in the 70's to dig it up..apparently there is something there that resembles a big boat, about the size of the Biblical Ark...check it out!
Wormwood
Chaps
“This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.” (2 Peter 3:1–7, ESV)
Deborah_
Well-Known Member
Personally, I think it's highly unlikely that anything would be left of the Ark.
Think about it... when Noah and his family finally disembarked and wanted to offer sacrifices to God, where (with the environment devastated) did they get the wood from to light a fire? Wood coated with pitch would burn very nicely, and the Ark would provide them with a ready source of fuel for some considerable time.
Think about it... when Noah and his family finally disembarked and wanted to offer sacrifices to God, where (with the environment devastated) did they get the wood from to light a fire? Wood coated with pitch would burn very nicely, and the Ark would provide them with a ready source of fuel for some considerable time.
Born_Again
Well-Known Member
[SIZE=14pt]This is an add I posted on local Craigslist: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Atheists are the most religious bunch of people I have ever met. Yes atheism is a full blown, certifiable religion with all the attributes of one.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]“god” – Chance[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]“prophet” – Darving[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]“holy book” – Origin of Species[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]“salvation” – absence of need for one. People are just biological automatons and there is nothing to save after death.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] I mean to actually believe that there was nothing then “bang” it became everything…! That is not even sane. Every time this point comes up atheists immediately go into “you too” mode and start ridiculing by bringing up stories from the Bible. Do not “shame” me with the Bible. Let’s say I am just a very generic theist. I just sanely conclude that there had to be somebody creating at least the very original components of everything and setting in place order and laws of physics. Also, if atheism is such a superior belief system why does it need to lower itself to the level of “you too” arguments even comparing itself to some religious dogmas! Such a superior belief system should be able to stand on its own does it not?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Becoming theist is the first step in a journey of sane mind. Next step is trying to find Creator and what He is like.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Then there is a total quackery of evolution. While atheists do not even attempt to explain the origin of life they somehow “know” that it must have originated without involvement of any creating force.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconceps/IAorigintheory.shtml[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] If was to tell atheist: “Here is a fine Swiss watch. It is Swiss because somewhere in Switzerland there was a pile of iron ore that fell into acidic pool of “primordial soup”, got struck by a lightning few times over millions of years and now I have this watch” he would call me insane yet to even consider that one live cell that is infinitely more complex than the finest of watches came together this way is sane?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wmhiq25MqU[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Evolution was never observed or replicated. Every time question comes up to show an example of evolution inevitably something like “Darvin’s finches” comes up. Variation within a specie, micro evolution at best. Show me one example of macro-evolution, aka DA EVOLUTION. One specie becoming another or one example of genetic information becoming more complex on its own. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] So to believe something that totally defies logic without one shred of evidence AND betting own life on it… I can only envy the level of totally blind religious, fanatical faith of an atheist! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Yes, I will remind you about Pascal’s Wager too. The only “response” I get from atheists is the roll of eyes and “Oh its that again” but never an intelligent answer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Without being able to explain origin of anything (matter, order, life) “sane”, “rational” atheists, inevitably become either “alien worshipers” (“Aliens created us”. Another new religion with Zecharia Sitchin as a “prophet”. Well who created aliens and what if they show up with their own ten commandments? What if it is a hundred and ten?) or rapidly growing ranks of Satan worshipers. (Yes, there is a Creator but he is just an egoistic control freak who creates everything and everybody for enslavement by him and his amusement. It is a good and pure hearted Lucifer who wants to set us free). Yes it is a rapidly growing “alternative” to atheism now that promise of god-like immortality seems to be within reach.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Insane atheists are just staying insane. Hey, what can one expect from an overgrown monkey?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] P.S. for Christians.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] If you want to debate or reach out to an atheist you cannot use “God is real because Bible says so” argument. To an atheist Bible is no more proof of existence of God then Wizard of Oz is a proof that flying monkeys exist. I have seen Christians try to do that but all they do instead is get opposite result to what they try to achieve. Immediately atheists sink their teeth into this argument and start ridiculing the Bible. As you may guess I got a good amount of hate mail as a reply to my post on Craigslist. Inevitably all E-mails begin with “Yeah…and a Bible says this… “. When I tell them that I am not religious they are at a loss. (I am not lying to them, to me Christianity is a belief system, relationship with Christ and not a religion since Christianity saved no one, Jesus saved many). They are stumped, do not know what to say and all they can do from then on is use obscenities, profanities and names. The only other “argument” I have encountered is “Atheism is based on MANY different theories”, trying to talk down to me as if I am too stupid to understand but then all you have to do is to remind them that it does not matter how many theories they have, they are all just that…. THEORIES![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] See, the only way atheists “defend” their beliefs is by attacking legitimacy of a belief system of an opponent. Atheism cannot stand on its own, their belief system is based on nothing, only denial of other belief systems. It is like a bubble sustained only by air pressure it is pressing against. You take that away and a bubble of atheism pops, revealing nothing on the inside. Many choose to live in that bubble, do not make it easier for them with well-meaning but wrongly applied arguments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Origin of things is the downfall of atheism. If you do not know where everything came from then how can you tell somebody who does know that they are wrong? Cannot counter something with nothing, so atheism can only attack others and cannot defend itself. If the question is “who created God?” then where did matter come from? If one can have totally irrational belief that nothing became everything without Creator being involved then my belief is much more rational: I believe that there is a Creator and His eternal nature is beyond my comprehension since I am not eternal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Also, some of the smarter atheists use tricks to figure out which belief system you are coming from. They say something like: “There are unicorns in the Bible” and the moment you say “Show me where?” attack on the Bible and Christianity begins. Do not fall for it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Atheists are the most religious bunch of people I have ever met. Yes atheism is a full blown, certifiable religion with all the attributes of one.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]“god” – Chance[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]“prophet” – Darving[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]“holy book” – Origin of Species[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]“salvation” – absence of need for one. People are just biological automatons and there is nothing to save after death.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] I mean to actually believe that there was nothing then “bang” it became everything…! That is not even sane. Every time this point comes up atheists immediately go into “you too” mode and start ridiculing by bringing up stories from the Bible. Do not “shame” me with the Bible. Let’s say I am just a very generic theist. I just sanely conclude that there had to be somebody creating at least the very original components of everything and setting in place order and laws of physics. Also, if atheism is such a superior belief system why does it need to lower itself to the level of “you too” arguments even comparing itself to some religious dogmas! Such a superior belief system should be able to stand on its own does it not?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Becoming theist is the first step in a journey of sane mind. Next step is trying to find Creator and what He is like.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Then there is a total quackery of evolution. While atheists do not even attempt to explain the origin of life they somehow “know” that it must have originated without involvement of any creating force.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]http://www.evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconceps/IAorigintheory.shtml[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] If was to tell atheist: “Here is a fine Swiss watch. It is Swiss because somewhere in Switzerland there was a pile of iron ore that fell into acidic pool of “primordial soup”, got struck by a lightning few times over millions of years and now I have this watch” he would call me insane yet to even consider that one live cell that is infinitely more complex than the finest of watches came together this way is sane?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wmhiq25MqU[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Evolution was never observed or replicated. Every time question comes up to show an example of evolution inevitably something like “Darvin’s finches” comes up. Variation within a specie, micro evolution at best. Show me one example of macro-evolution, aka DA EVOLUTION. One specie becoming another or one example of genetic information becoming more complex on its own. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] So to believe something that totally defies logic without one shred of evidence AND betting own life on it… I can only envy the level of totally blind religious, fanatical faith of an atheist! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Yes, I will remind you about Pascal’s Wager too. The only “response” I get from atheists is the roll of eyes and “Oh its that again” but never an intelligent answer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Without being able to explain origin of anything (matter, order, life) “sane”, “rational” atheists, inevitably become either “alien worshipers” (“Aliens created us”. Another new religion with Zecharia Sitchin as a “prophet”. Well who created aliens and what if they show up with their own ten commandments? What if it is a hundred and ten?) or rapidly growing ranks of Satan worshipers. (Yes, there is a Creator but he is just an egoistic control freak who creates everything and everybody for enslavement by him and his amusement. It is a good and pure hearted Lucifer who wants to set us free). Yes it is a rapidly growing “alternative” to atheism now that promise of god-like immortality seems to be within reach.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Insane atheists are just staying insane. Hey, what can one expect from an overgrown monkey?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] P.S. for Christians.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] If you want to debate or reach out to an atheist you cannot use “God is real because Bible says so” argument. To an atheist Bible is no more proof of existence of God then Wizard of Oz is a proof that flying monkeys exist. I have seen Christians try to do that but all they do instead is get opposite result to what they try to achieve. Immediately atheists sink their teeth into this argument and start ridiculing the Bible. As you may guess I got a good amount of hate mail as a reply to my post on Craigslist. Inevitably all E-mails begin with “Yeah…and a Bible says this… “. When I tell them that I am not religious they are at a loss. (I am not lying to them, to me Christianity is a belief system, relationship with Christ and not a religion since Christianity saved no one, Jesus saved many). They are stumped, do not know what to say and all they can do from then on is use obscenities, profanities and names. The only other “argument” I have encountered is “Atheism is based on MANY different theories”, trying to talk down to me as if I am too stupid to understand but then all you have to do is to remind them that it does not matter how many theories they have, they are all just that…. THEORIES![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] See, the only way atheists “defend” their beliefs is by attacking legitimacy of a belief system of an opponent. Atheism cannot stand on its own, their belief system is based on nothing, only denial of other belief systems. It is like a bubble sustained only by air pressure it is pressing against. You take that away and a bubble of atheism pops, revealing nothing on the inside. Many choose to live in that bubble, do not make it easier for them with well-meaning but wrongly applied arguments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Origin of things is the downfall of atheism. If you do not know where everything came from then how can you tell somebody who does know that they are wrong? Cannot counter something with nothing, so atheism can only attack others and cannot defend itself. If the question is “who created God?” then where did matter come from? If one can have totally irrational belief that nothing became everything without Creator being involved then my belief is much more rational: I believe that there is a Creator and His eternal nature is beyond my comprehension since I am not eternal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt] Also, some of the smarter atheists use tricks to figure out which belief system you are coming from. They say something like: “There are unicorns in the Bible” and the moment you say “Show me where?” attack on the Bible and Christianity begins. Do not fall for it.[/SIZE]
A Christian expedition in 2010 "National Geographics" are the latest to go to the site on Mt Ararat...and definitely think they have it..pictures even..of course it is sunk and is buried in the dirt, but the outline is visible
and the size is consistent with the
Biblical account. Who knows...the Bible says it exists so google it for yourself!
It looks to me like you're ceding pretty much all of the earth and life sciences to atheism. Is that really what you want to do?Skitnik said:
??????????? Again, why are you equating scientific research with atheism? And the link you provided says "Science does try to investigate how life started (e.g., whether or not it happened near a deep-sea vent, which organic molecules came first, etc.)", which seems to be the opposite of what you claimed.
Because there's a fundamental difference between inanimate objects like watches and living organisms. You're arguing from the fallacy of false analogy.
I posted just that a while ago. Here it is again: Let's Get Some Facts on the Table
Why are you equating evolution with atheism, when the reality is that most "evolutionists" are theists?
The only thing I could find was THIS, which is Nat Geo reporting on some Christian explorers who claimed to have found the ark in 2010, but it's since been widely labeled a hoax, even by fundamentalist young-earth creationists.heretoeternity said:
OzSpen
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Amrak,Amrak said:
Where does the Bible say that someday we will find Noah's Ark and prove that it existed?
If you read the text of Genesis 6-9 about Noah's Ark and the flood, you will find that more was needed than 40 days and 40 nights of rain (Gen 7:12) for the waters to cover the mountains, 'All the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered' (Gen 7:20 ESV).
What was needed besides the rain? 'All the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens opened. The rain fell for forty days and forty nights' (Gen 7:11-12 ESV). Remember it was God who caused Noah's flood:
So, it is true that so much rain in 40 days would not cover all of the earth to 15 cubits above the mountains (Gen 7:20). Fifteen cubits is about 23 feet or 6.8 metres. This is what God said happened, 'All the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens opened' (Gen 8:11 NIV). So it took the supernatural acts of God to cause a worldwide flood to cover all the mountain and kill all the people on earth, except for Noah and his family.
There is much geological evidence regarding dinosaurs.
I've written about this in:
See also,
- New fossils of dinosaur Austrosaurus found at dig near Richmond in north-west Queensland (ABC News, Brisbane, Qld, 29 Sept 2015).
- Have Dinosaur and Human Fossils Been Found Together? (Apologetics Press 2013)
Oz
OzSpen
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Deborah,Deborah_ said:
Why would there not have been lots of dead wood to burn?
It was quite a while before Noah built the altar (Gen 8:20). God had told Noah, 'Every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground' (Gen 7:4 ESV) and this surely would have included all trees and plants.
Oz
I guess I have a small "problem" according to you - I believe God.River Jordan said:
As for science. Scientists know a whole lot more about it then you are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g
Skitnik,
You didn't answer a single question, and I have no idea why you think believing in God is a problem. As far as that movie, is there a specific case you'd like to discuss? Finally, I am a scientist.
You didn't answer a single question, and I have no idea why you think believing in God is a problem. As far as that movie, is there a specific case you'd like to discuss? Finally, I am a scientist.
I am not on trial, under oath, I answer questions if I feel like it.
Like I said, I take a word of scientists which I know to be scientists not the ones that proclaim to be a scientists.
If you want to be taken seriously state your name, degree, area of expertize, published works.....
Like I said, I take a word of scientists which I know to be scientists not the ones that proclaim to be a scientists.
If you want to be taken seriously state your name, degree, area of expertize, published works.....
Born_Again
Well-Known Member
Skitnik,Skitnik said:
This post was all over the place. A true atheist would not even give this post a half a second to consider a response. If you are posting something on-line (craigs list and such) you need to make sure your structure, spelling, and grammar is on point. A lot of acclaimed atheist are very intelligent people and you would quickly lose credibility with them as you would appear uneducated.
Hitchens and Dawkings are/were a good example of the issue with current atheist. If they don't believe in God, then why work so hard to disprove Him? Its not that they don't believe in God, its more they are worried He is real. Why? Well, that means accountability. They don't want that. And, look at the childhood of most popular proclaimed atheist, past and current. 9 times out of 10, something happened that caused them to be angry with God. Its not that they decided at that moment that God doesn't exist, they decided He gave them a raw deal. Otherwise, why insult something that they believe is no more than a mere fairytale.
My best suggestion to you is to re-read whatever you have been reading about them and spend a little more study time before posting an opinion on the matter.
BA
I have not met one of those yet but I did get pages and pages of furious replies, most of them profane.Born_Again said:
English is one of few languages I speak. Not the one I am most proficient in.
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