Attention: “People of Truth”

[Rocky Wiley]

Can Jesus be King without a kingdom?

Joh 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
Pilate ask the question ”Art thou the King of the Jews? He ask this for a couple of reasons,
1. The Jews had told Pilate that Jesus had said so.
2. As a Roman he would have reason to think that Jesus was trying to overthrow the Roman Empires control in Israel and be justified to put him to death.
Joh 18:34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Jesus answers Pilate’s question with a question.
Joh 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
Pilate will not accuse Jesus of saying something he had not heard and Jesus would now answer him.
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus very clearly states that his kingdom is not of this world. If not this world, where is it? The spiritual world is the only correct answer.
Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Pilate did not grasp Jesus’ answer, so again he asks “Art thou a king then?” Jesus replies, that for this reason he came into this world to bear witness unto truth and everyone that is of the truth will hear (understand) him.

The Jews, for the most part, did not understand him and many of the People of Truth, do not understand it today.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Jesus says (in my words) “All things written in the old testament concerning me must be fulfilled”, if he did not do that he was a false Messiah, and the Jews and many of the “People of Truth” are still waiting for another Messiah to come.

One can’t just believe the parts of the Bible they want to, they must believe all of God’s word and that includes that Jesus has finished what he came to do and that encludes judgement day and his kingdom.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus came to the Jews of that generation and they did not receive him. He told his disciples that he would return in their generation and he did. Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you(the disciples), This (their) generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. The temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70 AD, less than forty years later, still in their generation.


Can we hear Jesus when he said the temple would be destroyed? When he said it to his disciples, they knew what he was saying. They ask him “when shall these things be? what will be the sign of thy coming (judgement) and the end(last day) of the world (age of law)?

If we believe that we are living in the church age, we have to believe that the age of law is past and that happened with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Joh 18:37 Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

 

[Floyd]

Can Jesus be King without a kingdom?

Joh 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
Pilate ask the question ”Art thou the King of the Jews? He ask this for a couple of reasons,
1. The Jews had told Pilate that Jesus had said so.
2. As a Roman he would have reason to think that Jesus was trying to overthrow the Roman Empires control in Israel and be justified to put him to death.
Joh 18:34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
Jesus answers Pilate’s question with a question.
Joh 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
Pilate will not accuse Jesus of saying something he had not heard and Jesus would now answer him.
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus very clearly states that his kingdom is not of this world. If not this world, where is it? The spiritual world is the only correct answer.
Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Pilate did not grasp Jesus’ answer, so again he asks “Art thou a king then?” Jesus replies, that for this reason he came into this world to bear witness unto truth and everyone that is of the truth will hear (understand) him.

The Jews, for the most part, did not understand him and many of the People of Truth, do not understand it today.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Jesus says (in my words) “All things written in the old testament concerning me must be fulfilled”, if he did not do that he was a false Messiah, and the Jews and many of the “People of Truth” are still waiting for another Messiah to come.

One can’t just believe the parts of the Bible they want to, they must believe all of God’s word and that includes that Jesus has finished what he came to do and that encludes judgement day and his kingdom.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus came to the Jews of that generation and they did not receive him. He told his disciples that he would return in their generation and he did. Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you(the disciples), This (their) generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. The temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70 AD, less than forty years later, still in their generation.


Can we hear Jesus when he said the temple would be destroyed? When he said it to his disciples, they knew what he was saying. They ask him “when shall these things be? what will be the sign of thy coming (judgement) and the end(last day) of the world (age of law)?

If we believe that we are living in the church age, we have to believe that the age of law is past and that happened with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Joh 18:37 Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Kingdom Age (The).

[SIZE=14pt]Jesus was addressing His people the Jews, in this and other discourses. ("I come only to the lost sheep of Israel"). When He spoke on these subjects, He was referring to the "Kingdom age", which at that time had not arrived, and was contingent on the acceptance by Israel of His person and ministry as the Messiah of Prophecy. That meant Corporate, and Spiritual Israel, as embodied in the ruling group the Sanhedrin, as the people would have followed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The seemingly impossible requirements as shown in His sermons, such as "turning the other cheek", etc., and the "Sermon On The Mount", were an impossible to achieve standard, AT THAT TIME, and now, and will remain so until the dawn of the Millennial Kingdom.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Had the Jews chosen Jesus (Christ), instead of Jesus Barabbas (Matt. 27:17-21, Mk. 15:11, Luke 23:18, Jhn. 18:40), and had Corporate Israel taken up the Offer of Christ, with repentance by Acts 28:28, then John the Baptist would have "been as Elijah", Matt.11:14![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In the future realisation of The Kingdom, which is now generally called "The Millennial Kingdom", the standards as taught by our Lord will apply, and for the first time in the history of the world![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]This will be as Christ Rules the world, as "King of kings, and Lord of lords". Satan will be imprisoned, and all the actions of men and women will be their own responsibility![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]As the Jews rejected "Messiah Christ", the offer which was theirs, i.e. “cleansing in The Blood of The Lamb" is now on offer to "the Gentiles" and any Jews that will seek Him, however God has placed a “[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]veil”[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] over their understanding 2Cor. 3:15-16! (Acts 28:28). This is referred to often by Paul, as "the Church of the Mystery", or "the Mystery Church"! See: [/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt]Apostle Paul:[/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt] (Separate study)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]All those that will not accept this "Great Salvation", will be subject to the Judgement of Almighty God. That subject is treated more fully in[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]Hell;[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt](Separate study) [/SIZE]

Floyd.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Kingdom Age (The).

[SIZE=14pt]Jesus was addressing His people the Jews, in this and other discourses. ("I come only to the lost sheep of Israel"). When He spoke on these subjects, He was referring to the "Kingdom age", which at that time had not arrived, and was contingent on the acceptance by Israel of His person and ministry as the Messiah of Prophecy. That meant Corporate, and Spiritual Israel, as embodied in the ruling group the Sanhedrin, as the people would have followed.[/SIZE]


Floyd.

Jesus did indeed come to the lost sheep of Israel. That much is true, the rest of what you say is not confirmed by scripture.

Read more on what Jesus says.

 

[Floyd]

Jesus did indeed come to the lost sheep of Israel. That much is true, the rest of what you say is not confirmed by scripture.

Read more on what Jesus says.

Do you deny His Kingdom?
Read more about His future!
Floyd.

 

[Hashe]

I really don't know why people want to put into the scripture a dispensational view that just isn't there.
Why make up a frame work which puts meanings to passages that just aren't there?
Why can't people just read the Bible and accept what it says?

 

[Floyd]

I really don't know why people want to put into the scripture a dispensational view that just isn't there.
Why make up a frame work which puts meanings to passages that just aren't there?
Why can't people just read the Bible and accept what it says?

If you want to understand properly; you need to take in to your mind what you read1
Floyd.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Kingdom Age (The).

[SIZE=14pt]Jesus was addressing His people the Jews, in this and other discourses. ("I come only to the lost sheep of Israel"). When He spoke on these subjects, He was referring to the "Kingdom age", which at that time had not arrived, and was contingent on the acceptance by Israel of His person and ministry as the Messiah of Prophecy. That meant Corporate, and Spiritual Israel, as embodied in the ruling group the Sanhedrin, as the people would have followed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]The seemingly impossible requirements as shown in His sermons, such as "turning the other cheek", etc., and the "Sermon On The Mount", were an impossible to achieve standard, AT THAT TIME, and now, and will remain so until the dawn of the Millennial Kingdom.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Had the Jews chosen Jesus (Christ), instead of Jesus Barabbas (Matt. 27:17-21, Mk. 15:11, Luke 23:18, Jhn. 18:40), and had Corporate Israel taken up the Offer of Christ, with repentance by Acts 28:28, then John the Baptist would have "been as Elijah", Matt.11:14![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]In the future realisation of The Kingdom, which is now generally called "The Millennial Kingdom", the standards as taught by our Lord will apply, and for the first time in the history of the world![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]This will be as Christ Rules the world, as "King of kings, and Lord of lords". Satan will be imprisoned, and all the actions of men and women will be their own responsibility![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]As the Jews rejected "Messiah Christ", the offer which was theirs, i.e. “cleansing in The Blood of The Lamb" is now on offer to "the Gentiles" and any Jews that will seek Him, however God has placed a “[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]veil”[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] over their understanding 2Cor. 3:15-16! (Acts 28:28). This is referred to often by Paul, as "the Church of the Mystery", or "the Mystery Church"! See: [/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt]Apostle Paul:[/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt] (Separate study)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]All those that will not accept this "Great Salvation", will be subject to the Judgement of Almighty God. That subject is treated more fully in[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]Hell;[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt](Separate study) [/SIZE]

Floyd.

We should be serious about God's Word, but since you really didn't use God's word I'll just LOL!

 

[Floyd]

We should be serious about God's Word, but since you really didn't use God's word I'll just LOL!

Why do you say that with such presumption?
Floyd.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Why do you say that with such presumption?
Floyd.

I say that because the scripture doesn't say anything like what you want it to say. If you think it does, quote the scripture with your explanation, as I did in this OP instead of telling others to read.

The bible I read says Jesus would be rejected "He came unto his own and his own received him not" it does not say it was contingent upon him being accepted by anyone, but Paul says there was a remnant.

The Old Testament was written to the Jews.

In the four gospels of the New Testament, Jesus came to the Jews. He also said that he had come to fulfill all that had been written about him in the Old Testament, and that includes judgment.

 

[Floyd]

I say that because the scripture doesn't say anything like what you want it to say. If you think it does, quote the scripture with your explanation, as I did in this OP instead of telling others to read.

The bible I read says Jesus would be rejected "He came unto his own and his own received him not" it does not say it was contingent upon him being accepted by anyone, but Paul says there was a remnant.

The Old Testament was written to the Jews.

In the four gospels of the New Testament, Jesus came to the Jews. He also said that he had come to fulfill all that had been written about him in the Old Testament, and that includes judgment.

You are not understanding Scripture!
You are mixing quotes to great confusion to your self and others!
read Miles Coverdale's formulation for understanding; then we can have an intelligent conversation!
Floyd.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

You are not understanding Scripture!
You are mixing quotes to great confusion to your self and others!
read Miles Coverdale's formulation for understanding; then we can have an intelligent conversation!
Floyd.

Floyd,
I feel like I do understand scripture. Read my OP and comment specificly on where you think I am wrong. So far all you have suggested is that I read something that you surely haven't.

All I can find about Coverdale is that he translated the bible into English.

 

[Floyd]

Floyd,
I feel like I do understand scripture. Read my OP and comment specificly on where you think I am wrong. So far all you have suggested is that I read something that you surely haven't.

All I can find about Coverdale is that he translated the bible into English.

Yes Rocky he did an early translation, and his was the first printed version.
For his labours, he was burned at the stake by the Roman Church.
I was referring to one of his most famous statements:

"[SIZE=24pt]"It will greatly help understanding of Scripture to see what is spoken or written, by whom, to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goes before and what follows." Coverdale.[/SIZE]

This principle is basic (IMO) to proper understanding of the Bible; and its many contexts.
Floyd.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Yes Rocky he did an early translation, and his was the first printed version.
For his labours, he was burned at the stake by the Roman Church.
I was referring to one of his most famous statements:

"[SIZE=24pt]"It will greatly help understanding of Scripture to see what is spoken or written, by whom, to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goes before and what follows." Coverdale.[/SIZE]

This principle is basic (IMO) to proper understanding of the Bible; and its many contexts.
Floyd.

That is pretty much the same as Hermeneutics, the principles of reading the bible with understanding.

By using this knowledge, we know that the bible was not written to you and me.

The Old Testament to the Jews.
The four Gospels is about Jesus coming as the Jews Messiah.
The Epistles were written to the early churches.
The book of Revelation written to the seven churches of Asia, that existed at the time of that writing.

If we can understand just that much we know that Jesus completed what he came to do. There is not a single thing that he left undone. He has no reason to return to Israel, for the bible says that you and I are the children of Israel by faith.

 

[Floyd]

That is pretty much the same as Hermeneutics, the principles of reading the bible with understanding.

By using this knowledge, we know that the bible was not written to you and me.

The Old Testament to the Jews.
The four Gospels is about Jesus coming as the Jews Messiah.
The Epistles were written to the early churches.
The book of Revelation written to the seven churches of Asia, that existed at the time of that writing.

If we can understand just that much we know that Jesus completed what he came to do. There is not a single thing that he left undone. He has no reason to return to Israel, for the bible says that you and I are the children of Israel by faith.

I would respectfully disagree with you; it is written to us, some for history, all for knowledge, some applicable now, some for the future.
What is called the Old Testament (OT) (man's division); is all about the Jews, and in fact the "Age of the Jews" finished at Acts28:25-28!
From that point the "Age of the Gentiles" commenced, and is still in play. The first 7 letter of Paul refer to the time from Acts2 to end of Acts, (and Christ Jesus was expected return imminently) and the last 7 refer to the Gentile Age Body of Christ where the Gentile is first priority; (and Paul knew that Christ's return was delayed) whereas up to Acts28, the Jew was first priority.
That does not mean that they are the only Epistles applicable to now; it means that they are specific to now (from Acts28 to when this age finishes) as we are the "Mystery Church" i.e. "Christ's Body" which is still in formation; and will not be complete until this age finishes which will be the end of "the Age of the Gentiles"!
As regards Revelation; that is yet future, and is confirmed by Rev.1:10, "the day of the Lord"; which is not Sunday!!!

For detailed study of these comments see: www.revelationsmessage.co.uk
Regards; Floyd.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

I would respectfully disagree with you; it is written to us, some for history, all for knowledge, some applicable now, some for the future.
What is called the Old Testament (OT) (man's division); is all about the Jews, and in fact the "Age of the Jews" finished at Acts28:25-28!
From that point the "Age of the Gentiles" commenced, and is still in play. The first 7 letter of Paul refer to the time from Acts2 to end of Acts, (and Christ Jesus was expected return imminently) and the last 7 refer to the Gentile Age Body of Christ where the Gentile is first priority; (and Paul knew that Christ's return was delayed) whereas up to Acts28, the Jew was first priority.
That does not mean that they are the only Epistles applicable to now; it means that they are specific to now (from Acts28 to when this age finishes) as we are the "Mystery Church" i.e. "Christ's Body" which is still in formation; and will not be complete until this age finishes which will be the end of "the Age of the Gentiles"!
As regards Revelation; that is yet future, and is confirmed by Rev.1:10, "the day of the Lord"; which is not Sunday!!!

For detailed study of these comments see: www.revelationsmessage.co.uk
Regards; Floyd.

Floyd,

We are just going in circles.

The book of Revelation was written to "The seven churches in Asia" that were there at the time of the writing. No where does it change the ones to whom it is addressed. You have done that, no one else. Jesus said many times "I come quickly". The Word is consistent, have a good day.

 

[Joshua David]

That is pretty much the same as Hermeneutics, the principles of reading the bible with understanding.

By using this knowledge, we know that the bible was not written to you and me.

The Old Testament to the Jews.
The four Gospels is about Jesus coming as the Jews Messiah.
The Epistles were written to the early churches.
The book of Revelation written to the seven churches of Asia, that existed at the time of that writing.

If we can understand just that much we know that Jesus completed what he came to do. There is not a single thing that he left undone. He has no reason to return to Israel, for the bible says that you and I are the children of Israel by faith.

Rocky,

I would agree with you that Jesus completed what he came to do. But I would disagree with you that he has no reason to return to Israel. There are promises to Israel that still need to be fulfilled. As just a few examples, his foot must touch the mount of Olives, which causes it to cleave in too. He must save the remnant at Bozrah according to Isaiah 63. He must restore the temple according to ezek 40-48, and devide the land of Israel among the tribes of Israel accoding to so many sources that it is beyond question. And as side note, just where in the bible does it say that we are children of Israel by faith.

Joshua David

 

[Floyd]

Floyd,

We are just going in circles.

The book of Revelation was written to "The seven churches in Asia" that were there at the time of the writing. No where does it change the ones to whom it is addressed. You have done that, no one else. Jesus said many times "I come quickly". The Word is consistent, have a good day.

OK Rocky; but I am not going in circles; I am looking for that great day of The Lord's return!
However; good to have conversed with you.
Floyd.

Rocky,

I would agree with you that Jesus completed what he came to do. But I would disagree with you that he has no reason to return to Israel. There are promises to Israel that still need to be fulfilled. As just a few examples, his foot must touch the mount of Olives, which causes it to cleave in too. He must save the remnant at Bozrah according to Isaiah 63. He must restore the temple according to ezek 40-48, and devide the land of Israel among the tribes of Israel accoding to so many sources that it is beyond question. And as side note, just where in the bible does it say that we are children of Israel by faith.

Joshua David

Agree with you JD!
Floyd.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Rocky,

I would agree with you that Jesus completed what he came to do. But I would disagree with you that he has no reason to return to Israel. There are promises to Israel that still need to be fulfilled. As just a few examples, his foot must touch the mount of Olives, which causes it to cleave in too. He must save the remnant at Bozrah according to Isaiah 63. He must restore the temple according to ezek 40-48, and devide the land of Israel among the tribes of Israel accoding to so many sources that it is beyond question. And as side note, just where in the bible does it say that we are children of Israel by faith.

Joshua David

Joshua,

I feel no need to prove old testament scripture since Jesus said he had come to fulfill all that had been written (Old Testament) about him. So he did.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Israel
yis-raw-ale'
From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Mat 2:15 shows that in Hos 11:1 Jesus is the true Israel and Jacob was the symbolic Israel.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3;26 shows that we are the children of God (Israel ) by faith.