Australia bans same sex marriage.

[KingJ]

As far as why people are gay, if you believe they were "born that way" then you have to acknowedge that for that to be the outcome, someting somewhere had to have gone wrong. It isn't like someone being born left handed. (I don't know any scripture condemning left handers as an abomination to God, although the nuns I had in school had a major issue with them.

Just along similar lines... if God wanted any to be gay, He would have made different plugs and adapters for them / other means of pro-creation. Hence God is either dumb or gays are dumb. It is inline with talking out our behind .

The whole 'born gay gene' is really just a ''butch girl'' and ''girly boy'' gene they looking for. I know many straight 'girly' guys.

 

[JackSafari]

I'd post a very apt example of a what a homosexual said, but apparently the truth is too offensive for this forum.

If you guys wish to be blind leaders of the blind, go ahead. The truth never hides, but stands in open sight for all to see. It just that no one likes the light it brings because their deeds are evil.
Joh_3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Maybe you could answer the question this way. How do you teach a homosexual to be heterosexual? Or how do you teach a child to be heterosexual rather than homosexual?

And do you think its OK for homosexuals to come in contact with children, like being a teacher or coach or daycare?

 

[Selene]

Maybe you could answer the question this way. How do you teach a homosexual to be heterosexual? Or how do you teach a child to be heterosexual rather than homosexual?

And do you think its OK for homosexuals to come in contact with children, like being a teacher or coach or daycare?

It is possible to confuse the sexual identity of a child. And there are records of homosexuals who claim to be ex-gays. In fact, it was even posted under this thread. So, why are you asking questions that have already been answered by other posters under this thread?

 

[KCKID]

It is possible to confuse the sexual identity of a child. And there are records of homosexuals who claim to be ex-gays. In fact, it was even posted under this thread. So, why are you asking questions that have already been answered by other posters under this thread?

Selene, any chance of a response to my post #174 addressed specifically to you?

 

[Selene]

Surely you must see, Selene, that one's saying that they had gay feelings for as far back as they remember has nothing to do with any 'gay agenda' or 'gay activism' ...? I have personally had a long-term friendship with only two gay persons in my life and each KNEW that he was gay when such sexual tendencies started to kick in at whatever age that was for them. They never asked to be gay, they didn't volunteer to be gay, they didn't prefer being gay to being straight (on the contrary!) ...they just WERE gay. Your opinion (and opinions carry no weight whatsoever in a debate) that, since science has found no "gay gene", homosexuals must therefore have some kind of a 'heterosexual disorder' is based on nothing more than conjecture or, in other words, guesswork.

But anyway, let us say that all that you say about homosexuals IS true ...then what do you suggest they do to rectify their 'heterosexual disorder'? Also, if their sexual orientation IS such a disorder that they had no active part in, then why, as a Christian, do you not show more compassion for them? Why, as a Christian, do you allow other Christians to demean them in the way that they do? You just appear to sit back and let it happen. And, you profess to be a caring, Jesus-loving Christian. Would a leper be treated so badly by Christians because he/she were a leper? Back to my question ...what is a homosexual to do?



This is all pantomime, Rex. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Obviously, you have taken it seriously.

As for God being progressive ...well, God might be progressive but you and yours sure ain't ...! Stagnating in your fundamentalist traditions and preaching such a message to others is what will eventually bring your brand of Christianity down. Either that, or there could well be war raging in the not too distant future between the progressive Christians and the fundamentalist Christians ...each group claiming that the other group is not Christian. Homosexuality will not cause the sky to fall. Ignorance will!

According to science, there is no such thing as a "gay gene." Homosexuality is a disorder just like pedophilia is a disorder. I already said this so many times. How many times do you want me to say it?? Pedophilia is a disorder and therefore, we tell the pedophile to control his sexual attraction. Homosexuality is a disorder so we tell the gay person to control his sexual attraction. As for the man who only has a sexual attraction for only blonde females......I would say that is also a preference disorder. It's okay for him to be attracted to the female, but why he's attracted to only blondes is something he needs to deal with.

 

[KCKID]

Just along similar lines... if God wanted any to be gay, He would have made different plugs and adapters for them / other means of pro-creation. Hence God is either dumb or gays are dumb. It is inline with talking out our behind .

KJ ...this is a *News Flash*

Gay people come together (in this case to get married) because they are attracted to each other - even in *gasp* non-sexual ways - and wish to commit themselves to one another. They don't come together to procreate! This is a personal thing between two people that has NOTHING to do with you, the Bible, or ANYONE but the couple involved. WHY is it that people have this insatiable desire to poke their noses where it doesn't belong ...? Christians, in particular, are notorious for this.

According to science, there is no such thing as a "gay gene." Homosexuality is a disorder just like pedophilia is a disorder. I already said this so many times. How many times do you want me to say it?? Pedophilia is a disorder and therefore, we tell the pedophile to control his sexual attraction. Homosexuality is a disorder so we tell the gay person to control his sexual attraction. As for the man who only has a sexual attraction for only blonde females......I would say that is also a preference disorder. It's okay for him to be attracted to the female, but why he's attracted to only blondes is something he needs to deal with.

Selene, according to science ...there is no God. Does this mean that no God exists?

Would you please respond to the questions I ask of you in post #174?

 

[Selene]

KJ ...this is a *News Flash*

Gay people come together (in this case to get married) because they are attracted to each other - even in *gasp* non-sexual ways - and wish to commit themselves to one another. They don't come together to procreate! This is a personal thing between two people that has NOTHING to do with you, the Bible, or ANYONE but the couple involved. WHY is it that people have this insatiable desire to poke their noses where it doesn't belong ...? Christians, in particular, are notorious for this.



Selene, according to science ...there is no God. Does this mean that no God exists?

Would you please respond to the questions I ask of you in post #174?

Science DOES say that there is no "gay gene." . According to the weblink, which I cited below:

A team of international researchers has completed a study that suggests we will probably never find a ‘gay gene.' Sexual orientation is not about genetics, say the researchers, it's about epigenetics. This is the process where DNA expression is influenced by any number of external factors in the environment. And in the case of homosexuality, the researchers argue, the environment is the womb itself.

http://io9.com/5967426/scientists-confirm-that-homosexuality-is-not-genetic--but-it-arises-in-the-womb

As an example, when the mother drinks alcohol during pregnancy, the child will come out with certain disorders or defects. The same thing is said about "homosexuality." There is some type of hormonal imbalance in the woman during pregnancy, which causes homosexuality.........a disorder.

 

[JackSafari]

It is possible to confuse the sexual identity of a child. And there are records of homosexuals who claim to be ex-gays. In fact, it was even posted under this thread. So, why are you asking questions that have already been answered by other posters under this thread?

Confused maybe, change no. Sexual abuse causes all kinds of problems for children, but it can not change their sexual orientation. It can change their sexual behavior. You are confusing sexual behavior with sexual orientation, they are not the same.

Example while in college I met several young heterosexual women who were sexual abused by heterosexual men\boys in their family (Incest). As a result of that sexual abuse, they found it difficult or impossible to have heterosexual relationship with men, so they chose to have monogamous bi-sexual relationships with other women, mainly for emotional support rather than sex. Most of these sexually abuse women later chose to have heterosexual relationships with men once they had time to heal and found they could trust men not to rape them. These heterosexual women were never lesbians, they only chose to be bi-sexual because of abuse sexual. True lesbians don't any sexual interest men. Same is true with gay men, they don't have sexual interest in women.

 

[Selene]

Confused maybe, change no. Sexual abuse causes all kinds of problems for children, but it can not change their sexual orientation. It can change their sexual behavior. You are confusing sexual behavior with sexual orientation, they are not the same.

Example while in college I met several young heterosexual women who were sexual abused by heterosexual men\boys in their family (Incest). As a result of that sexual abuse, they found it difficult or impossible to have heterosexual relationship with men, so they chose to have monogamous bi-sexual relationships with other women, mainly for emotional support rather than sex. Most of these sexually abuse women later chose to have heterosexual relationships with men once they had time to heal and found they could trust men not to rape them. These heterosexual women were never lesbians, they only chose to be bi-sexual because of abuse sexual. True lesbians don't any sexual interest men. Same is true with gay men, they don't have sexual interest in women.

Your example shows that homosexuality can be about choice or caused by an environmental factor.

 

[JackSafari]

Science DOES say that there is no "gay gene." . According to the weblink, which I cited below:

A team of international researchers has completed a study that suggests we will probably never find a ‘gay gene.' Sexual orientation is not about genetics, say the researchers, it's about epigenetics. This is the process where DNA expression is influenced by any number of external factors in the environment. And in the case of homosexuality, the researchers argue, the environment is the womb itself.

http://io9.com/5967426/scientists-confirm-that-homosexuality-is-not-genetic--but-it-arises-in-the-womb

As an example, when the mother drinks alcohol during pregnancy, the child will come out with certain disorders or defects. The same thing is said about "homosexuality." There is some type of hormonal imbalance in the woman during pregnancy, which causes homosexuality.........a disorder.

Your confusing "Gay Gene" with biological factors that cause individual orientation There is no heterosexual gene either, but there unknown biological factors that cause vast majority of people to be born heterosexual. Better example, there is no "right handed" gene or "left handed" gene either, but most people are right handed, and a small percentage are left handed. We accept both as being normal even if most are right handed., Although, were can go back in Christian history, where it was once believed that there was something wrong with left handed children, and they were forced to learn to do things right handed. Now, such beliefs are considered unwarranted because clearly left handed children\adults can function perfectly fine being left handed.

Your example shows that homosexuality can be about choice or caused by an environmental factor.

No, a person's sexual behavior is a choice, sexual orientation never changes, and is not a choice.

Once again, you are confusing sexual behavior with sexual orientation, they are not the same.

 

[KCKID]

Science DOES say that there is no "gay gene." . According to the weblink, which I cited below:

A team of international researchers has completed a study that suggests we will probably never find a ‘gay gene.' Sexual orientation is not about genetics, say the researchers, it's about epigenetics. This is the process where DNA expression is influenced by any number of external factors in the environment. And in the case of homosexuality, the researchers argue, the environment is the womb itself.

http://io9.com/5967426/scientists-confirm-that-homosexuality-is-not-genetic--but-it-arises-in-the-womb

As an example, when the mother drinks alcohol during pregnancy, the child will come out with certain disorders or defects. The same thing is said about "homosexuality." There is some type of hormonal imbalance in the woman during pregnancy, which causes homosexuality.........a disorder.

Selene, PLEASE answer the questions I asked of you in post #174. Why are homosexuals looked down on by Christians if they have a 'disorder' that they had no part in? Isn't that unfair? Also, what would you suggest that homosexuals do to 'satisfy' homophobic Christians? You DO know that a Christian's dislike for the homosexual has nothing to do with the Bible, don't you? They simply use the Bible to support their homophobia. In my more recent post I said that science also claims that there is no God. What parts of science do you believe and what parts of science do you reject?

 

[Selene]

Your confusing "Gay Gene" with biological factors that cause individual orientation There is no heterosexual gene either, but there unknown genetic factors that cause most people to be heterosexual. Better example, there is no "right handed" gene or "left handed" gene either, but most people are right handed, and a small percentage are left handed. We accept both as being normal even if most are right handed., Although, were can go back in Christianity history, where it was once believed that there was something wrong with left handed children, and they were forced to learn to do things right handed. Now, such beliefs are considered unwarranted because clearly left handed children\adults can function perfectly fine being left handed.



No, a person's sexual behavior is a choice, sexual orientation never changes, and is not a choice.

Once again, you are confusing sexual behavior with sexual orientation, they are not the same.

Homosexuality is a disorder......plain and simple. According to science, a person becomes homosexual because something went awry or wrong during the pregnancy. It has nothing to do with genetics. It is like "Down's Syndrome" - a developmental disorder.

Selene, PLEASE answer the questions I asked of you in post #174. Why are homosexuals looked down on by Christians if they have a 'disorder' that they had no part in? Isn't that unfair? Also, what would you suggest that homosexuals do to 'satisfy' homophobic Christians? You DO know that a Christian's dislike for the homosexual has nothing to do with the Bible, don't you? They simply use the Bible to support their homophobia. In my more recent post I said that science also claims that there is no God. What parts of science do you believe and what parts of science do you reject?

You are generalizing ALL Christians. Not all Christians look down on them. However, ALL Christians should look down on the ACT of homosexuality (the behavior). We allow homosexuals in my Church, and they can take Holy Communion as long as they are not practicing the ACT of homosexuality.

Science and religion are separate. Science says that God does not exist and science says that homosexuality is NOT caused by genetics. Religion, on the other hand, says that God exists and faith is much higher than science. So, which one do you want to deal with.........science or religion??

 

[JackSafari]

Homosexuality is a disorder......plain and simple. According to science, a person becomes homosexual because something went awry or wrong during the pregnancy. It has nothing to do with genetics. It is like "Down's Syndrome" - a developmental disorder.
?

This is only a theory, is not proven,nor is it widely accepted as being the best explanation. And if it were true, then children should not limited or judged for something they had no choice.

If homosexuality is later proven to be a biological abnormality, its extremely unlikely to be labeled a disorder; a better analogy would be people who are right and left handed. Vast majority of people are right handed, but those who are left handed function perfectly fine; its not a disorder that needs treatment or special care, and nobody questions their ability to make normal and healthy decision for themselves. Just because something is different, and a minority, does not mean its bad, wrong, or needs to be change to conform to the majority.

 

[Selene]

This is only a theory, is not proven,nor is it widely accepted as being the best explanation. And if it were true, then children should not limited or judged for something they had no choice.

If homosexuality is later proven to be a biological abnormality, its extremely unlikely to be labeled a disorder; a better analogy would be people who are right and left handed. Vast majority of people are right handed, but those who are left handed function perfectly fine; its not a disorder that needs treatment or special care, and nobody questions their ability to make normal and healthy decision for themselves. Just because something is different, and a minority, does not mean its bad, wrong, or needs to be change to conform to the majority.

It was already pointed out to you that homosexuality causes diseases.

 

[KCKID]

Homosexuality is a disorder......plain and simple. According to science, a person becomes homosexual because something went awry or wrong during the pregnancy. It has nothing to do with genetics. It is like "Down's Syndrome" - a developmental disorder.


You are generalizing ALL Christians. Not all Christians look down on them. However, ALL Christians should look down on the ACT of homosexuality (the behavior). We allow homosexuals in my Church, and they can take Holy Communion as long as they are not practicing the ACT of homosexuality.

Science and religion are separate. Science says that God does not exist and science says that homosexuality is NOT caused by genetics. Religion, on the other hand, says that God exists and faith is much higher than science. So, which one do you want to deal with.........science or religion??

Selene, you know as well as I do that Christians - some, most, all, I don't care - turn a blind eye to numerous biblical sins that occur within and without the church but instead go out of their way to HIGHLIGHT the perceived 'sin' of homosexuality. Why do they do this? Because the Bible says? Nope. The Bible also says a big no to the other sins that we turn a blind eye to. Divorce/re-marital adultery, for instance is rife within the church. No one cares. The Bible references homosexuality only FIVE TIMES in its entirety! AND, in probably ALL cases these references are connected with temple prostitution and idolatry practices. That's it! That the majority of Christians don't know this is rather mind blowing because they give the impression that they know EVERYTHING!

As for one not being allowed to take Holy Communion unless they remain celibate ...how cruel and unnatural is that? Furthermore,how is this celibacy enforced? Does a priest share their bedroom with them? Whenever prohibitions of this nature are put on to people they would feel like, and be regarded by others as, a leper or a criminal, certainly unclean. The desire to 'sin' and the feeling of guilt whenever they feel that way would always be with them. Prohibition has an opposite effect to that which is intended. Again, how cruel to tell a person that they cannot be intimate with another consenting adult. Religion! Then again, if the gay person wants to be a part of such a church to begin with then I guess they put up with the consequences.

Science does not make the blanket statement that homosexuality is not genetic. At this point in time no one knows for sure why one has a specific sexual orientation and another does not. All we know for certain is that homosexuals and heterosexuals and bisexuals and transgender people DO exist! You should not be using the speculations of indiviuals as though everyone is in agreement about this topic merely to make a (religious?) point.

I'm still waiting to hear from you why - let's use the word 'prohibition' - prohibitions are placed on people who have no choice in their sexual orientation as if they are lepers or criminals or unclean. You know that MANY (is that better?) Christians hate homosexuals. You KNOW that! Why should they hate these people, Selene, if homosexuals had no choice in their orientation? Why do you not step up to the plate and defend homosexuals from hateful Christians?

It was already pointed out to you that homosexuality causes diseases.

While at school - before I'd even heard the word 'homosexual' - we were always hearing about and being warned about (heterosexual) STDs. When did homosexuality have the monopoly on promiscuity and irresponsible sexual practices? This does not get homosexuals who are also promiscuous and sexually irresponsible off of the hook but the street runs in both directions. It all comes down to the sexual practices of those of either sexual persuasion.

 

[JackSafari]

It was already pointed out to you that homosexuality causes diseases.

This is 100% not true, and I believe you know its not true.

If it were true, then the same statement would be true for heterosexuality.

Homosexuality is a disorder......plain and simple. According to science, a person becomes homosexual because something went awry or wrong during the pregnancy. It has nothing to do with genetics. It is like "Down's Syndrome" - a developmental disorder.


You are generalizing ALL Christians. Not all Christians look down on them. However, ALL Christians should look down on the ACT of homosexuality (the behavior). We allow homosexuals in my Church, and they can take Holy Communion as long as they are not practicing the ACT of homosexuality.

Science and religion are separate. Science says that God does not exist and science says that homosexuality is NOT caused by genetics. Religion, on the other hand, says that God exists and faith is much higher than science. So, which one do you want to deal with.........science or religion??

This would be like saying "Christians accept left handed people, but there are a lot of conditions for their acceptance, such as they must hate that they are left handed and ask The Lord to forgive them for being born left handed, and they pray each night God will make them right handed some day." Imagine taking a child to church and telling the child "You were born a very bad person, so ask God to forgive you for being born such a bad boy, and maybe he will make the bad go away, but until he does, you must accept that normal people are better than you"

 

[Selene]

This is 100% not true, and I believe you know its not true.

If it were true, then the same statement would be true for heterosexuality.



This would be like saying "Christians accept left handed people, but there are a lot of conditions for their acceptance, such as they must hate that they are left handed and ask The Lord to forgive them for being born left handed, and they pray each night God will make them right handed some day." Imagine taking a child to church and telling the child "You were born a very bad person, so ask God to forgive you for being born such a bad boy, and maybe he will make the bad go away, but until he does, you must accept that normal people are better than you"

With God all things are possible. God loves the sinner, but He does not like the sin. So, in Heaven, there is no homosexuality.

 

[KCKID]

With God all things are possible. God loves the sinner, but He does not like the sin. So, in Heaven, there is no homosexuality.

Will there be ANY human traits in heaven ...? Do you realize that even the things we laugh at are mostly either crude of they involve the misfortune of another human being? Can you imagine not doing the things that gave you so much pleasure and enjoyment as a human being? I would imagine that sex of any kind will be out. So, what is a former human being to do?

 

[Selene]

Will there be ANY human traits in heaven ...? Do you realize that even the things we laugh at are mostly either crude of they involve the misfortune of another human being? Can you imagine not doing the things that gave you so much pleasure and enjoyment as a human being? I would imagine that sex of any kind will be out. So, what is a former human being to do?

In God's kingdom, God is the one who is in charge.....not you. Christ said that in Heaven neither will be given in marriage. Therefore, all those in Heaven will be celibate just as Christ was ceiibate. In God's kingdom, we all become one with Christ just as Christ is one with the Father. In Heaven, did you honestly think that you can just do whatever you want?? Those who love their sins or who wants to take charge will NOT be in Heaven.

This is 100% not true, and I believe you know its not true.

If it were true, then the same statement would be true for heterosexuality.

Tell that to the majority of gay men who have STDs as a result of anal sex. Homosexuals are a minority. They're a very small group. There are more heterosexuals. But here's something you need to think about. For such a small group, it is gay men who has a higher rate of STDs than heterosexual men. Yes, BOTH homosexual and heterosexual men have STDs........but it's the homosexual men who has the HIGHER rate.

 

[JackSafari]

In God's kingdom, God is the one who is in charge.....not you. Christ said that in Heaven neither will be given in marriage. Therefore, all those in Heaven will be celibate just as Christ was ceiibate. In God's kingdom, we all become one with Christ just as Christ is one with the Father. In Heaven, did you honestly think that you can just do whatever you want?? Those who love their sins or who wants to take charge will NOT be in Heaven.



Tell that to the majority of gay men who have STDs as a result of anal sex. Homosexuals are a minority. They're a very small group. There are more heterosexuals. But here's something you need to think about. For such a small group, it is gay men who has a higher rate of STDs than heterosexual men. Yes, BOTH homosexual and heterosexual men have STDs........but it's the homosexual men who has the HIGHER rate.

I believe you know that two people who have sex will not create a sexual disease, but you are using it as an argument to rationalize your religious beliefs. Woman have breast cancer, but that does not mean having sex causes breast cancer.