Baptism: Its Meaning and Significance

[mjrhealth]

Again Selen you miss the point, two too be exact. Number one your works cannot save you only His can, Number 2 most important, if you do not believe that His blood has covered your present and future sins than there is no hope for you. It is not that He desires to forgive you, but that you walk in unbelief and telling Him He cannot. Without His blood to blot out your sins, you are not covered and so you have condemned yourself. Dont you understand ??

In all His Love

 

[Alanforchrist]

1 John 1:7 and 9 are talking about PRESENT sins, and these present sins are NOT forgiven because St. John gave a stipulation.

1 John 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9 IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

St. John was speaking to people and referring to their present sins. He is telling them that their sins would be forgiven IF (and that's a big IF) they walk in the light and have fellowship with one another and if they confess their sins.......then noticed that after they do the IF, the Blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse them from all their sins. "ALL" in here is referring to their past and present sins that they confess.

You are only focusing on the words "all sins" and taking it out of context. You need to put it in context of what St. John is saying.

If we walk in the light, confess our sins,repent and have fellowship with God, The blood cleanses from ALL sins, Spell out this word, A L L, What does it spell??, "ALL", Right??. So the blood cleanses for ALL sins, If we repent, confess [To God] , walk in the light and have fellowship with God.

 

[Selene]

If we walk in the light, confess our sins,repent and have fellowship with God, The blood cleanses from ALL sins, Spell out this word, A L L, What does it spell??, "ALL", Right??. So the blood cleanses for ALL sins, If we repent, confess [To God] , walk in the light and have fellowship with God.

In order for your sins to be forgiven, you must confess them. All sins that you confess would be forgiven.....that would include only your past and present sins. That does not include your future sins because you don't know what sins you will commit in the future until the time comes, and when that time comes, it will be present instead of future. Just as the Bible says, Christ died for the forgiveness of sins that are past. Look at the scripture below:


Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

If you want Christ's blood to apply to your present sins, you must confess and repent from them. And what happens when you don't confess and repent from those sins?? They are NOT forgiven.

 

[mjrhealth]

In order for your sins to be forgiven, you must confess them. All sins that you confess would be forgiven.....that would include only your past and present sins. That does not include your future sins because you don't know what sins you will commit in the future until the time comes, and when that time comes, it will be present instead of future. Just as the Bible says, Christ died for the forgiveness of sins that are past. Look at the scripture below:


Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

If you want Christ's blood to apply to your present sins, you must confess and repent from them. And what happens when you don't confess and repent from those sins?? They are NOT forgiven.

You know there is not a single sin that man has comitted or will commit that God doesnt already know about. My grandaufgter will pooh her nappy, today, tomorrow and continually till she is potty trained and then after that she will still mess up. Does she have to apologise, no, because we love her and can overlook such things. Little Children , why cant christians jsu be like little children. God ois a much better fat5her than any man could ever be. Either Jesus died for your sins or He did not, either you sins are forgiven or they are not, , there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, How can you be condemned if you have no law to condemn you when you have being freed by teh blood of Christ from the law of sin and death.

In all His Love

 

[Selene]

You know there is not a single sin that man has comitted or will commit that God doesnt already know about. My grandaufgter will pooh her nappy, today, tomorrow and continually till she is potty trained and then after that she will still mess up. Does she have to apologise, no, because we love her and can overlook such things. Little Children , why cant christians jsu be like little children. God ois a much better fat5her than any man could ever be. Either Jesus died for your sins or He did not, either you sins are forgiven or they are not, , there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, How can you be condemned if you have no law to condemn you when you have being freed by teh blood of Christ from the law of sin and death.

In all His Love

First of all, pooing in your pants is NOT a sin; therefore, a person can poo all they want....they are not committing a sin.

I agree that whatever sins a person confesses and repents from, God will forgive that person's sins. However, if the person does not confess or repent from his/her sins, they are NOT forgiven......simple as that.

1 John 1:9 IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

St. John NEVER said if you don't confess your sins.....that's okay....you'll be forgiven anyway. He never said that.

 

[Alanforchrist]

In order for your sins to be forgiven, you must confess them. All sins that you confess would be forgiven.....that would include only your past and present sins. That does not include your future sins because you don't know what sins you will commit in the future until the time comes, and when that time comes, it will be present instead of future. Just as the Bible says, Christ died for the forgiveness of sins that are past. Look at the scripture below:


Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

If you want Christ's blood to apply to your present sins, you must confess and repent from them. And what happens when you don't confess and repent from those sins?? They are NOT forgiven.

Yes but either present sins or those we might do in the future, Will be forgiven and cleansed as we repent and confess them, So the blood doesn't just cleanse past sins.
To say the blood only cleanses past sins, makes one think our past sins are forgiven, But not any we do at the present time or in the future,

 

[Selene]

Yes but either present sins or those we might do in the future, Will be forgiven and cleansed as we repent and confess them, So the blood doesn't just cleanse past sins.
To say the blood only cleanses past sins, makes one think our past sins are forgiven, But not any we do at the present time or in the future,

Alan, I'm only repeating what the Bible says. The Bible did say "the remission of sins that are in the past." You misunderstood what I said. I never said that our present or future sins cannot be forgiven. Present sins can be forgiven WHEN we confess and repent from them. As for our future sins, we have to wait until we commit them first and then repent from them as well. However, by that time, the future becomes the present.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Alan, I'm only repeating what the Bible says. The Bible did say "the remission of sins that are in the past." You misunderstood what I said. I never said that our present or future sins cannot be forgiven. Present sins can be forgiven WHEN we confess and repent from them. As for our future sins, we have to wait until we commit them first and then repent from them as well. However, by that time, the future becomes the present.

Then you should have clarified what you meant, As you mislead us to think that you believe Jesus blood doesn't cleans present sins or any sins we do in the future.

 

[mjrhealth]

What she fails to understand, is that Christ died once for all her sins. She is already forgiven, she has no need to ask, it was done, is done it is finished, her sins are covered forever. Pity christians wont go to Jesus to get understanding, there is a reason why He said,' but you wont come to Me so I can give you Life".

In all His Love

 

[Selene]

Then you should have clarified what you meant, As you mislead us to think that you believe Jesus blood doesn't cleans present sins or any sins we do in the future.

You were the one who said that Christ died for ALL sins - past, present, and future. And this is false. The Bible clearly points out that He died for the sins of the PAST, and I pointed out to you that if He also died for the present and future sins.....then why do we have to confess and repent from our sins??? You never answered that question.

The fact that we have to confess and repent from those sins showed that Christ's blood on the cross did not apply to those sins UNLESS we confess and repent from it. Now, we both know that we cannot repent from our FUTURE sins. Why? How can you repent of future sins when you don't even know what sins you are going to commit in the future?? Therefore, Christ did not die for any future sins. You have to wait until the future comes into the present, commit the sin and then repent from it. That's how it works.

As I told Mjrheath, St. John NEVER said if you don't confess your sins.....that's okay.....you're sins are forgiven anyway. St. John never said that. Your sins are not forgiven until you confess and repent from it. The only ones who believe that their sins are forgiven ANYWAY despite the fact that they never confessed them are those who actually believed that Christ died for all sins - past, present, and future.

What she fails to understand, is that Christ died once for all her sins. She is already forgiven, she has no need to ask, it was done, is done it is finished, her sins are covered forever. Pity christians wont go to Jesus to get understanding, there is a reason why He said,' but you wont come to Me so I can give you Life".

In all His Love

I don't need to ask?? Really? Then why did St. John say this:

1 John 1:9 IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Why did St. Peter tell the people to repent for the forgiveness of sins AFTER Pentecost?? If it is true as you say that we don't need to ask for forgiveness, then why does the Bible speak of confessing and repenting for the forgiveness of sins AFTER Christ already ascended into Heaven?

 

[Alanforchrist]

You were the one who said that Christ died for ALL sins - past, present, and future. And this is false. The Bible clearly points out that He died for the sins of the PAST, and I pointed out to you that if He also died for the present and future sins.....then why do we have to confess and repent from our sins??? You never answered that question.

The fact that we have to confess and repent from those sins showed that Christ's blood on the cross did not apply to those sins UNLESS we confess and repent from it. Now, we both know that we cannot repent from our FUTURE sins. Why? How can you repent of future sins when you don't even know what sins you are going to commit in the future?? Therefore, Christ did not die for any future sins. You have to wait until the future comes into the present, commit the sin and then repent from it. That's how it works.

As I told Mjrheath, St. John NEVER said if you don't confess your sins.....that's okay.....you're sins are forgiven anyway. St. John never said that. Your sins are not forgiven until you confess and repent from it. The only ones who believe that their sins are forgiven ANYWAY despite the fact that they never confessed them are those who actually believed that Christ died for all sins - past, present, and future.


I don't need to ask?? Really? Then why did St. John say this:

1 John 1:9 IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Why did St. Peter tell the people to repent for the forgiveness of sins AFTER Pentecost?? If it is true as you say that we don't need to ask for forgiveness, then why does the Bible speak of confessing and repenting for the forgiveness of sins AFTER Christ already ascended into Heaven?

So you don't believe that Jesus died for present and future sins??. But the Bible doesn't teach that, You believe the gospel according to Selene, And not the Bible's gospel.

The Bible doesn't say that the blood of Jesus doesn't only cleans past sins, 1 Jn 1: 7 says the blood cleanses from ALL sins.
Spel out this word, ."A L L", What does it spell??,, It spells "ALL", Past present and future sins.

Even if the blood only cleansed past sins, The people still had to repent, Lk 24: 47, And confess, Rom 10: 10.
So that blows your theory.
What you are doing is, Calling Jesus and God, Lying deceivers.

Every sin, Past present and future, Are cleansed the same way, By the sacrifice, death and blood of Jesus.

Your problem is, You don't know the Bible, So you twist the only scriptures that you do know.

 

[marksman]

Present sins can be forgiven WHEN we confess and repent from them.

So what about the verse which says if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

Now as I read that and I could be wrong but I don't think so, he forgives us of those sins that we don't confess.

 

[Selene]

So what about the verse which says if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

Now as I read that and I could be wrong but I don't think so, he forgives us of those sins that we don't confess.

"All" in here does not mean your "future" sins, and sins that you don't confess and purposely withheld are NOT forgiven. Think about this: If God forgave all my future sins, then whatever sins I commit from now on is already forgiven. So, I can go out and murder 6000 people, and I don't have to worry because all my sins are already forgiven. Since all my sins are already forgiven, I can go to Heaven regardless of what sins I commit now. I can commit adultery and homosexual acts and still go to Heaven.

What's wrong with that theology? The words "ALL unrighteousness" or "ALL sins" are only your interpretation that even your future sins and any sins that you do not confess are already forgiven. That is not what the Bible says. St. John says "IF (and that's a big IF), we confess our sins, we will be forgiven of all unrighteousness. St. John never said, if we don't confess our sins....that's okay....it's forgiven anyway. If our sins were already cleansed, St. John would not tell us to confess our sins in order for us to be cleansed.

So you don't believe that Jesus died for present and future sins??. But the Bible doesn't teach that, You believe the gospel according to Selene, And not the Bible's gospel.

The Bible doesn't say that the blood of Jesus doesn't only cleans past sins, 1 Jn 1: 7 says the blood cleanses from ALL sins.
Spel out this word, ."A L L", What does it spell??,, It spells "ALL", Past present and future sins.

Even if the blood only cleansed past sins, The people still had to repent, Lk 24: 47, And confess, Rom 10: 10.
So that blows your theory.
What you are doing is, Calling Jesus and God, Lying deceivers.

Every sin, Past present and future, Are cleansed the same way, By the sacrifice, death and blood of Jesus.

Your problem is, You don't know the Bible, So you twist the only scriptures that you do know.

See my response to Marksman above.

 

[Alanforchrist]

"All" in here does not mean your "future" sins, and sins that you don't confess and purposely withheld are NOT forgiven. Think about this: If God forgave all my future sins, then whatever sins I commit from now on is already forgiven. So, I can go out and murder 6000 people, and I don't have to worry because all my sins are already forgiven. Since all my sins are already forgiven, I can go to Heaven regardless of what sins I commit now. I can commit adultery and homosexual acts and still go to Heaven.

What's wrong with that theology? The words "ALL unrighteousness" or "ALL sins" are only your interpretation that even your future sins and any sins that you do not confess are already forgiven. That is not what the Bible says. St. John says "IF (and that's a big IF), we confess our sins, we will be forgiven of all unrighteousness. St. John never said, if we don't confess our sins....that's okay....it's forgiven anyway. If our sins were already cleansed, St. John would not tell us to confess our sins in order for us to be cleansed.




See my response to Marksman above.

God has forgiven ALL trespasses, Col 3: 13,
And has reconciled the whole world to Himself, Not imputing our sins, 2 Cor 5: 19.
But it's when a person repents, That they receive the remission of sins, Lk 24: 47. Acts 2: 38.

The Blood of Jesus cleanses ALL sins, Past present and future, Once a person repents and confesses.

You have you own gospel that is different to the Bible's.

 

[marksman]

There are no examples of a baby being baptized. But, there is also not one statement or example of a baby being excluded from baptism. We are told several times that if the head of the house believes, the whole household is saved. This is the same pattern in the Old Testament with circumcision.

​if you look at this from a historical perspective as I have done, you will find that it was common practice that whatever religion the head of the house followed, all the other members of the house followed it as well, even the slaves.

In Acts 16 Lydia and ALL her household were baptised. We do not know if she was married, had children or servants but when it says all her household it suggests that there were others, which might include babies/children so I do not think we can rule out infant baptism or make a case for it specifically.

Another point to consider in history, and this applies to pagan religion as well, you were not considered committed to the cause until you had been baptised by immersion as it was your way of saying that you have adopted what it involves being a member of that religion.

​Just saying that you want to be a member of whatever did not carry any weight or even signing the pledge or the christian form, the decision card.

"All" in here does not mean your "future" sins, and sins that you don't confess and purposely withheld are NOT forgiven.

I never said anything about future sins. You don't need to be forgiven for sins that you haven't committed with the proviso that all sin was dealt with at the cross once and for all so we are all under the blood of calvary which washes away our sin.

What I referred to was that when we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (to that moment in time).

The fact is, he either does or does not cleanse us from all unrighteousness and this verse says he does with the confession of any sin. It does not say or imply that we cannot be cleansed of sin until we have confessed every one of them which is logical as there may be some things done that we do not realise are sin bearing in mind he judges us according to his standards, not ours.

St. John says "IF (and that's a big IF), we confess our sins, we will be forgiven of all unrighteousness. St. John never said, if we don't confess our sins....that's okay....it's forgiven anyway. If our sins were already cleansed, St. John would not tell us to confess our sins in order for us to be cleansed.

I can't help feeling there is quite a bit of twisting and turning and convoluted thinking here.

There is no indication that John is saying that our sins are already cleansed...automatically so that comment is irrelevant.

Plus no one has said if we don't confess sin that it is OK we are forgiven anyway so that comment is irrelevant.

What has been said is that for any forgiveness to be effective we have to confess our SINS which in the Greek is offence or sinfulness so it could be one sin or several.

To understand what I am saying is true, let's look at the Greek which says....If, and you may or may not, acknowledge your sins, he is trustworthy and equitable to send forth your sins, and to cleanse us from all, any, every whole moral wrongfulness of character, both life and act. 1 John 1:9

I do not think you can get anything more definite than that.

 

[Selene]

I never said anything about future sins. You don't need to be forgiven for sins that you haven't committed with the proviso that all sin was dealt with at the cross once and for all so we are all under the blood of calvary which washes away our sin.

What I referred to was that when we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (to that moment in time).

The fact is, he either does or does not cleanse us from all unrighteousness and this verse says he does with the confession of any sin. It does not say or imply that we cannot be cleansed of sin until we have confessed every one of them which is logical as there may be some things done that we do not realise are sin bearing in mind he judges us according to his standards, not ours.


I can't help feeling there is quite a bit of twisting and turning and convoluted thinking here.

There is no indication that John is saying that our sins are already cleansed...automatically so that comment is irrelevant.

Plus no one has said if we don't confess sin that it is OK we are forgiven anyway so that comment is irrelevant.

What has been said is that for any forgiveness to be effective we have to confess our SINS which in the Greek is offence or sinfulness so it could be one sin or several.

To understand what I am saying is true, let's look at the Greek which says....If, and you may or may not, acknowledge your sins, he is trustworthy and equitable to send forth your sins, and to cleanse us from all, any, every whole moral wrongfulness of character, both life and act. 1 John 1:9

I do not think you can get anything more definite than that.

My post was referring to Mrjhealth, who stated that we don't need to confess our sins because they're already forgiven. He believed that even "future sins" are forgiven.

 

[marksman]

My post was referring to Mrjhealth, who stated that we don't need to confess our sins because they're already forgiven. He believed that even "future sins" are forgiven.

If that is the case, what is this comment all about which was a response to what I said?

[SIZE=10.5pt]"All" in here does not mean your "future" sins, and sins that you don't confess and purposely withheld are NOT forgiven. Think about this: If God forgave all my future sins, then whatever sins I commit from now on is already forgiven. So, I can go out and murder 6000 people, and I don't have to worry because all my sins are already forgiven. Since all my sins are already forgiven, I can go to Heaven regardless of what sins I commit now. I can commit adultery and homosexual acts and still go to Heaven. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]What's wrong with that theology? The words "ALL unrighteousness" or "ALL sins" are only your interpretation that even your future sins and any sins that you do not confess are already forgiven. That is not what the Bible says. St. John says "IF (and that's a big IF), we confess our sins, we will be forgiven of all unrighteousness. St. John never said, if we don't confess our sins....that's okay....it's forgiven anyway. If our sins were already cleansed, St. John would not tell us to confess our sins in order for us to be cleansed. [/SIZE]

 

[Rocky Wiley]

[1]I know I was saved on the 7th Dec 1975, I felt the Spirit enter me, And I almost fell to the floor by His power.
I know I received the baptism in the Holy Ghost on May 11, Because I spoke in tongues and had the power and love of God in a very strong measure...So I know baptism doesn't save...You have come to late to tell me baptism saves.

[2]So you are saying the twelve Apostles weren't saved, Because there is no record of them being baptised after Jesus rose from the dead, There is a record of disciples being baptised, in the book of Acts. But that was after they were saved.

Alan,

Praise God for the infilling of the Holy Ghost, but remember Jesus said the Comforter would lead us in all truth. Let us take another look at scripture.


Jesus says one can not enter into the kingdom unless they have been born of the water and Spirit.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

No matter how full of the Holy Ghost one is, they still need to be baptized.
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

There are three things that agree together to be saved. The blood of Jesus, the Spirit of God and the water in baptism.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

When Peter instructed those that were gathered that after baptism they would receive the gift from the Holy Ghost. That gift is eternal life.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We are people that profess to love the Lord. Because obedience is required from us when we serve the Lord, we need not ask questions, but just do his will. The reasons will come clear later.

 

[Selene]

If that is the case, what is this comment all about which was a response to what I said?

[SIZE=10.5pt]"All" in here does not mean your "future" sins, and sins that you don't confess and purposely withheld are NOT forgiven. Think about this: If God forgave all my future sins, then whatever sins I commit from now on is already forgiven. So, I can go out and murder 6000 people, and I don't have to worry because all my sins are already forgiven. Since all my sins are already forgiven, I can go to Heaven regardless of what sins I commit now. I can commit adultery and homosexual acts and still go to Heaven. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]What's wrong with that theology? The words "ALL unrighteousness" or "ALL sins" are only your interpretation that even your future sins and any sins that you do not confess are already forgiven. That is not what the Bible says. St. John says "IF (and that's a big IF), we confess our sins, we will be forgiven of all unrighteousness. St. John never said, if we don't confess our sins....that's okay....it's forgiven anyway. If our sins were already cleansed, St. John would not tell us to confess our sins in order for us to be cleansed. [/SIZE]

"All" does not include future sins because an act that is not committed is not a sin.

 

[marksman]

"All" does not include future sins because an act that is not committed is not a sin.

You have avoided the question. I asked if the comment was not directed to me why the comment which was directed at me?

I didn't ask you for an explanation.