Baptism: Its Meaning and Significance

[Selene]

You have avoided the question. I asked if the comment was not directed to me why the comment which was directed at me?

I didn't ask you for an explanation.

It is because you asked me this question: So what about the verse which says if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

I already explained that to Alan and even to Mrjhealth, in my post #123, and then you came in and pretty much ask the same question as they did because I assume you did not read the entire thread.

 

[In Christ]

1. 
   The Bible was written by God for mankind.
   
2. 
   The Bible defines its own terms
   
3. 
   The Bible is its own interpreter.
   
4. 
   The Bible is its own dictionary
   

Selene does not understand the word “all” in biblical terms, and no one has made her to understand. As suggested by the four statements above, I will give two scripture texts to clear the misconception to this mysterious word “all” that have been misunderstood,, at least as far as the salvation plan of God is concerned.

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus,
that all the world should be taxed. Luke 2:1

Does the text above imply that China or any other countries at that time should be taxed, also? Of course not. I believe the “all” referred to the vast Roman Empire that existed in that time.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
I Corinthians 15:22.

The first “all” above mean “each and every” and the second “all” cannot have the same meaning, as the Bible is crystal clear that the believers are the only ones who are to be saved or a remnant by grace.


Selene, if Christ did not pay for all of your sins past, present, and future, then you are none of His. What will happen if you forgot to confess one sin? The wages of sin is death. It only takes one sin to fall under the wrath of God. What you are doing is limiting Jesus' power to save. What about those children who does not have the capacity to confess their sins, are they lost? Your kind of gospel is not the Gospel of the Bible.

I have not read all of the posts in this thread but from what I've read so far the subject matter was on water baptism. The word “baptism” in the Greek means to wash, this in itself has no substance. Water can only wash the dirt away from our skin and not our sins that needs to be washed away. But the washing of regeneration or baptism of the Holy Spirit is more significant and has substance. Water baptism will not save anyone or can it be a precursor to salvation!

 

[Selene]

1. 
   The Bible was written by God for mankind.
   
2. 
   The Bible defines its own terms
   
3. 
   The Bible is its own interpreter.
   
4. 
   The Bible is its own dictionary
   

Selene does not understand the word “all” in biblical terms, and no one has made her to understand. As suggested by the four statements above, I will give two scripture texts to clear the misconception to this mysterious word “all” that have been misunderstood,, at least as far as the salvation plan of God is concerned.

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus,
that all the world should be taxed. Luke 2:1

Does the text above imply that China or any other countries at that time should be taxed, also? Of course not. I believe the “all” referred to the vast Roman Empire that existed in that time.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
I Corinthians 15:22.

The first “all” above mean “each and every” and the second “all” cannot have the same meaning, as the Bible is crystal clear that the believers are the only ones who are to be saved or a remnant by grace.


Selene, if Christ did not pay for all of your sins past, present, and future, then you are none of His. What will happen if you forgot to confess one sin? The wages of sin is death. It only takes one sin to fall under the wrath of God. What you are doing is limiting Jesus' power to save. What about those children who does not have the capacity to confess their sins, are they lost? Your kind of gospel is not the Gospel of the Bible.

I have not read all of the posts in this thread but from what I've read so far the subject matter was on water baptism. The word “baptism” in the Greek means to wash, this in itself has no substance. Water can only wash the dirt away from our skin and not our sins that needs to be washed away. But the washing of regeneration or baptism of the Holy Spirit is more significant and has substance. Water baptism will not save anyone or can it be a precursor to salvation!

Perhaps, you should go back then and read all the posts, so I don't need to re-post many of the things I've said. It would be redundant. According to the Bible, water baptism can save.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. [fn] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[Rex]

Perhaps, you should go back then and read all the posts, so I don't need to re-post many of the things I've said. It would be redundant. According to the Bible, water baptism can save.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. [fn] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

In and of itself, water baptism has no more power to save than pushing someone down a hill.
Thou the results are the same, the believer in such foolishness ends up battered and bruised.

 

[Mungo]

1. 
   The Bible was written by God for mankind.
   
2. 
   The Bible defines its own terms
   
3. 
   The Bible is its own interpreter.
   
4. 
   The Bible is its own dictionary
   

All four statements are false.

Selene, if Christ did not pay for all of your sins past, present, and future, then you are none of His. What will happen if you forgot to confess one sin? The wages of sin is death. It only takes one sin to fall under the wrath of God. What you are doing is limiting Jesus' power to save. What about those children who does not have the capacity to confess their sins, are they lost? Your kind of gospel is not the Gospel of the Bible.

You have a stange notion of a Christian's relationship with God.our Father.

If we maintain friendship with God; if we are still in the Covenant then we approach God as a merciful Father not as a wrathfull Judge.

One sin, unless it is extremely serious, does, not change that relationship. If a child commits an offence (sin) against his father then the father, who loves his child, will not disinherit him/her in his wrath.

I think your problem is the notion that Jesus 'paid' for our sins, the notion of 'penal atonement'.

In and of itself, water baptism has no more power to save than pushing someone down a hill.
Thou the results are the same, the believer in such foolishness ends up battered and bruised.

You are in denial of the scriptures that Selene posted.

 

[In Christ]

Selene,

You said, “According to the Bible, water baptism can save.” May I ask which bible is this? Is there another mysterious bible in existence I'm not aware of? Or, are you suggesting the Apocrypha books?

Did you know that Scripture speaks of two baptisms? That's right, one is spiritual and the other physical. The spiritual baptism has substance while the other (water) is a shadow. Do you know also that the Bible is full of types and figures, spiritual and physical, and so forth.

Mark 16:16 does not say which baptism is in view, but I am confident the spiritual baptism is in view.

Please, carefully read your own scripture references. 1 Peter 3:21 says: “and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also” meaning, this water baptism is only a symbol (shadow) pointing to the real thing.

The two scripture references above can be summed up by Titus 3:5 which is defined in the washing of regeneration.

Another give away of physical water baptism is that it is performed by man and is contrary to Ephesians 2:9 which by definition is a “works gospel.”


Mungo,

If you want to claim a statement is false at least give him/her the benefit of an explanation and a reason why you think the statement was false.

Your analogy of a relationship of an earthly father and child is altogether different from that of the relationship between a Heavenly Father and His earthly child.

I'm very familiar and not surprise with “Christians” that do not understand that God is the Author of the Holy Bible. Think this out for a moment, would a Holy God leave to man the responsibility to write His Holy Word, with their talent whose every fiber of his being is tainted by sin? I DON'T THINK SO!

I will reserve the Scripture references that definitely declare God is the Author of the Bible until such time after you give an answer why you believe God is NOT the Author of the Bible.

You said, “One sin, unless it is extremely serious, does, not change that relationship. If a child commits an offense (sin) against his father, who loves his child, will not disinherit him/her in his wrath.” (Underlined words for emphasis).

Sin is sin. Look at the example God gave to us how He married and then divorced National Israel because of continued sins. A divorce is a separation. God is a Holy God and we have no idea how heinous a sin is to God. All we know is that He can't even look at sin.

When Scripture say God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, it means He will never change. What He had decreed He will do because He does not change. So, when He decreed the “wages of sin (singular) is death” you can be assured that sinner will die.

Whatever word we use for the atonement the end result is still the same. I suggest you read Matthew 13:44-46 you might get enlightened, and then again, you might not because it is spiritually discerned.

 

[Mungo]

Mungo,

If you want to claim a statement is false at least give him/her the benefit of an explanation and a reason why you think the statement was false.

Your analogy of a relationship of an earthly father and child is altogether different from that of the relationship between a Heavenly Father and His earthly child.

I'm very familiar and not surprise with “Christians” that do not understand that God is the Author of the Holy Bible. Think this out for a moment, would a Holy God leave to man the responsibility to write His Holy Word, with their talent whose every fiber of his being is tainted by sin? I DON'T THINK SO!

I will reserve the Scripture references that definitely declare God is the Author of the Bible until such time after you give an answer why you believe God is NOT the Author of the Bible.

You said, “One sin, unless it is extremely serious, does, not change that relationship. If a child commits an offense (sin) against his father, who loves his child, will not disinherit him/her in his wrath.” (Underlined words for emphasis).

Sin is sin. Look at the example God gave to us how He married and then divorced National Israel because of continued sins. A divorce is a separation. God is a Holy God and we have no idea how heinous a sin is to God. All we know is that He can't even look at sin.

When Scripture say God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, it means He will never change. What He had decreed He will do because He does not change. So, when He decreed the “wages of sin (singular) is death” you can be assured that sinner will die.

Whatever word we use for the atonement the end result is still the same. I suggest you read Matthew 13:44-46 you might get enlightened, and then again, you might not because it is spiritually discerned.

I've got family round this weekend so my answers at the moment must be brief.

1. If you make statements it is up to you to provide evidence of their truth.

2. The Bible never said that God wrote the scriptures. The Bible only says that scriptures are inspired by by God. The letters of Paul for example were written by ..... Paul. So if you have evidence to the contrary please supply it.

3. The analogy of our earthly and our heavenly Father is not entirely different which is why Jesus himself uses it - Lk 11:11-13, 15:11-32.

4. Yes, God condemned Israel, as you yourself said 'because of continues sins'. He did not condemn Israel for one sin.

5. God does not change but the relationship that he has to us can change.

6. I am very familiar with Mt 13:44-46. Vs 44 is a parable that meant very much to me at one point in my life. However it says nothing about the atonement. How we understand the atonement is very important. The words we use expresses that understanding. To say they don't matter is crass.

 

[Robertson]

Interesting topic and it's a shame that Christians have to fight and argue over the most basic of doctrines. Oh that I lived in the days of the apostles and could have gotten the true doctrine directly from their lips, or even better, had been around to hear Jesus teach. All we have now is confusion and corrupted texts. Sad.

But as I try to live by every word of God, though translations vary and whole books and texts are obviously missing from the canon, I must agree that repentance and baptism is required for a remission of sins. As far as infant baptism goes, it is not mentioned, taught, or even insinuated in the Bible. Anyone condoning such a course of action is clearly adding their own voice to the sacred writ, so look out for those plagues! I would sooner go practice baptism for the dead with those Mormons - at least that is spoken of in the Bible as proof of resurrection. Now before you go and accuse me of being a Mormon, I am not. But you guys laugh at them for their plural marriage and baptisms for the dead and whatever else, but at least they get those from the Bible, though they may be confused on the doctrine. Then you will stand by man-made doctrines like original sin and infant baptism that are nowhere to be found in the text. Think again people!

 

[marksman]

[SIZE=11pt]It is because you asked me this question: [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]So what about the verse which says if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]If that is the case, what is this comment all about which was a response to what I said?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]"All" in here does not mean your "future" sins, and sins that you don't confess and purposely withheld are NOT forgiven. Think about this: If God forgave all my future sins, then whatever sins I commit from now on is already forgiven. So, I can go out and murder 6000 people, and I don't have to worry because all my sins are already forgiven. Since all my sins are already forgiven, I can go to Heaven regardless of what sins I commit now. I can commit adultery and homosexual acts and still go to Heaven. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]What's wrong with that theology? The words "ALL unrighteousness" or "ALL sins" are only your interpretation that even your future sins and any sins that you do not confess are already forgiven. That is not what the Bible says. St. John says "IF (and that's a big IF), we confess our sins, we will be forgiven of all unrighteousness. St. John never said, if we don't confess our sins....that's okay....it's forgiven anyway. If our sins were already cleansed, St. John would not tell us to confess our sins in order for us to be cleansed. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]That is the question I am asking Selene.[/SIZE]

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
AlanforChrist

People can get to heaven without being baptised, The thief on the cross did.Jesus did go to hell, He proclaimed the victory over the devil to those in prison.

Alan,

In order for us to go to heaven we must be born again of the water and the Spirit. That is because we need to have eternal life in us before we can. Eternal life is the 'gift' of the Holy Ghost. We only receive the gift when we are baptized in water.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

 

[In Christ]

Mungo

You are correct of course that I should have provided evidence to statements I've made and I do apologize, on the other hand; you too do not follow what you preach as you did not provide any kind of evidence to support that the statements I've made were false, but I will let Scripture speak for me.

It is indeed very sad to hear theologians, pastors, bible students, and Christians utter, 'Paul said this', or 'Matthew said that' and so forth; instead of saying, 'God said in the book of Romans', or 'God said in the book of Isaiah', because after all the Bible is God's word. It is amazing how casually the Bible is read and critic by these learned people. As promised, here is the evidence:

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge
that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:37

In order for us to go to heaven we must be born again of the water and the Spirit. That is because we need to have eternal life in us before we can. Eternal life is the 'gift' of the Holy Ghost. We only receive the gift when we are baptized in water.

Rocky Wiley

The statement above is false. Even Nicodemus did not understand how to become 'born again.'

Water, in whatever manner it is used can't save anyone, it can only wash away dirt in our bodies. But, the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) will wash away our sins which is required for salvation.

The water you are looking for is also found in John 7:37-39 where we read:

37. In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any
man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow
rivers of living water. 'Rivers of Living Water' is synonymous with the Gospel.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the
Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Likewise, in Acts 10:48 when baptism occurred, the people were already saved when the Holy Spirit fell on them in verse 44.

Therefore, water can never save any one!

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Rocky Wiley

The statement above is false. Even Nicodemus did not understand how to become 'born again.'

Water, in whatever manner it is used can't save anyone, it can only wash away dirt in our bodies. But, the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) will wash away our sins which is required for salvation.

The water you are looking for is also found in John 7:37-39 where we read:

37. In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any
man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow
rivers of living water. 'Rivers of Living Water' is synonymous with the Gospel.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the
Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Likewise, in Acts 10:48 when baptism occurred, the people were already saved when the Holy Spirit fell on them in verse 44.

Therefore, water can never save any one!

Hi In Christ,

As stated before, you take one scripture and determine it means just one thing. In truth there are two baptisms, in water and in Spirit.

Nicodemus was not a disciple who Jesus had been teaching about the kingdom, so he was just one of many who did not understand. The proper way is to let scripture intrepret scripture.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Water for repentance and the Spirit.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Jesus sets the example for us even though John knew he needed it not.

Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
They went down into the water.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The Gentiles had been baptized with the Spirit.

Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Peter states very clearly that water baptism is still required.

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Peter, or the Word of God, commanded they be baptized.

 

[mjrhealth]

It is a good thing that we rely upon God for salvation instead of mens

10 steps to salvation.
5 steps in understanding the bible,
4 steps to wordhipng the Lord,
7 steps to forgiveness

Etc
Etc

In allHis Love

 

[Selene]

It is a good thing that we rely upon God for salvation instead of mens

10 steps to salvation.
5 steps in understanding the bible,
4 steps to wordhipng the Lord,
7 steps to forgiveness

Etc
Etc

In allHis Love

Yes, we are supposed to follow Christ......and Christ got Himself baptized. That's good enough for me.

 

[In Christ]

Hello Rocky Wiley

Did you know the Scripture is full of types and figures, realities and shadows, and so forth?

As a reminder only, I know you are aware that the word 'baptize' in the Greek mean 'to wash' and you are correct there are two baptisms. Baptism of the Holy Spirit (reality) and water baptism (shadow).

Water baptism cannot wash away sins! The requirement for salvation is the washing of regeneration spelled out in Titus 3:5 which reads:

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he
saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Also, in 1 Peter 3:21:

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away
of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the
resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Please pay attention to the words in between the parenthesis. If water baptism has substance then why didn't Paul baptize more than those handful of people which he named and could number?

Water baptism is a ritual performed by man and is therefore contrary to Ephesians 2:9.

Warning: There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


Hello Selene,

Jesus indeed is our example but we cannot enter into His baptism.

His baptism is likened unto the priests of old that had to wash themselves before entering into the Holy of Hollies.

Jesus, although had no sin, had to go through the same ritual the priests exercised so He can begin His High Priestly duty. The baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan began His earthly ministry.

If water baptism is a criteria for salvation, and if Jesus is our example (which He is), do you know of any scripture text that can declare He did baptize any? NONE!

 

[Selene]

Hello Selene,

Jesus indeed is our example but we cannot enter into His baptism.

His baptism is likened unto the priests of old that had to wash themselves before entering into the Holy of Hollies.

Jesus, although had no sin, had to go through the same ritual the priests exercised so He can begin His High Priestly duty. The baptism of Jesus in the River Jordan began His earthly ministry.

If water baptism is a criteria for salvation, and if Jesus is our example (which He is), do you know of any scripture text that can declare He did baptize any? NONE!

Jesus said that He is the WAY, so naturally we should follow Him. We can be baptized with His baptism with the Holy Spirit in us. It is possible, but only with the Holy Spirit. At the Jordan River, Christ was baptized with both water and spirit. That is the baptism that we follow.....a baptism where the old sinful person in us dies and a new creature rises.......a baptism that does not fear death:

Mark 10:38-39 "You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said. "Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?" "We can," they answered. Jesus said to them, "You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with,

 

[In Christ]

Hello Selene,

Are you deliberately evading the question I asked or, is it because you have no answer to give?

Mark 10:38-39 means that we must drink the cup of the wrath of God. Jesus came as the cup bearer who paid for our sins. He is our substitute.

Many scripture texts are not understood because we do not apply the principle that Jesus spoke in parables, and without a parable did He not speak. And, of course, by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Mungo]

Mungo

You are correct of course that I should have provided evidence to statements I've made and I do apologize, on the other hand; you too do not follow what you preach as you did not provide any kind of evidence to support that the statements I've made were false, but I will let Scripture speak for me.

It is indeed very sad to hear theologians, pastors, bible students, and Christians utter, 'Paul said this', or 'Matthew said that' and so forth; instead of saying, 'God said in the book of Romans', or 'God said in the book of Isaiah', because after all the Bible is God's word. It is amazing how casually the Bible is read and critic by these learned people. As promised, here is the evidence:

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge
that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:37

That was written by Paul not God. It's Paul who says "the things [SIZE=10.5pt]I[/SIZE] write to you"

And it's the same Paul who writes - in the same letter:

To the rest I say (not the Lord).....(1Cor 7:12).

I think people are quite right to say Paul said or Peter wrote. We need to distinguish what those people said and wrote – under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit – and the actual words that God spoke at any time, just as Paul does.

Again from the same letter:
I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord)… (1Cor 7:10)
For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you….. (1Cor 11:23).

If we confuse these things it leads to confused thinking.
.

Did you know the Scripture is full of types and figures, realities and shadows, and so forth?

As a reminder only, I know you are aware that the word 'baptize' in the Greek mean 'to wash' and you are correct there are two baptisms. Baptism of the Holy Spirit (reality) and water baptism (shadow).

Water baptism cannot wash away sins! The requirement for salvation is the washing of regeneration spelled out in Titus 3:5 which reads:

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he
saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Also, in 1 Peter 3:21:

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away
of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the
resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Please pay attention to the words in between the parenthesis. If water baptism has substance then why didn't Paul baptize more than those handful of people which he named and could number?

Water baptism is a ritual performed by man and is therefore contrary to Ephesians 2:9.

Warning: There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

1. Baptise means to immerse or plunge. But the etymology is only partly relevant. It how it is used in scripture that matters, not how the Greeks used the word.

2. There is only one baptism for salvation and that is baptism with water.

3. “baptism with the Holy Spirit” is a metaphor not a true baptism.

4. Water does not wash away sins but when we are baptised (in water) it is Jesus that baptises and washes away our sins.

5. There are many scriptural passages that tell us that we are saved in (water) baptism, either explicitly or implicitly. The two explicit ones are Mk16:16 and 1 Pet 3:21.

6. Regarding 1Pet 3:21 - it is the salvation of Noah and his family through/by water that is the shadow and baptism (with water) that is the reality which saves us through/by water.

7. Paul didn’t baptise many people because his primary mission was to preach the gospel. Those that were with him could perform the baptisms.

8. “Water baptism is a ritual performed by man and is therefore contrary to Ephesians 2:9.”. No it does not contradict Eph 2:9. We are saved by Christ & the Holy Spirit in baptism not by man. The work of salvation, the forgiveness of sins, the regeneration, is God’s work not ours. Someone gave me the example once of having a life saving operation. Our lives are saved by the actions of the surgeon but we have to turn up at the hospital or we don’t get operated on. Jesus commanded baptism and it is baptism that he saves us.

[SIZE=12pt]If you want me to expand any on those statements I will do so.[/SIZE]

If water baptism is a criteria for salvation, and if Jesus is our example (which He is), do you know of any scripture text that can declare He did baptize any? NONE!

Actually there is one - John 3:26 - "And they came to John, and said to him, "Rabbi, he who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you bore witness, here he is, baptizing, and all are going to him."

You can argue Jn 4:2 if you want to but then you would be retro-fitting a comment made on a different occasion to this particular incident. It makes sense that Jesus would start the baptising and then hand over to his disciples, just as Paul did.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Those that are willing to obey God will be baptized as the scripture says. In the water and Spirit.



Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

 

[Selene]

Hello Selene,

Are you deliberately evading the question I asked or, is it because you have no answer to give?

Mark 10:38-39 means that we must drink the cup of the wrath of God. Jesus came as the cup bearer who paid for our sins. He is our substitute.

Many scripture texts are not understood because we do not apply the principle that Jesus spoke in parables, and without a parable did He not speak. And, of course, by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

You already answered the question when you said "None." (See your post #155.) Just because Christ did not baptize anyone does not indicate that baptism is not important. He is still the example we follow because He is the WAY to salvation. Jesus got Himself baptized, and He allowed His disciples to baptize even after John the baptist was beheaded; therefore, this shows that baptism is important. Jesus is the role model we follow, and what He says is what we should also follow.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Besides, baptism came from God. It did not come from man......and all things that comes from God can bring salvation because God is life and salvation.