BAPTISM SAVES, FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"

[LC627]

Because baptism is the means God has chosen to save men.

Again from Rom 10:10 belief and confession are UNTO salvation, they lead one towards salvation but it is not until one is water baptized that one is saved.

In Mark 16:16 Jesus made belief a prerequisite to being baptized so the unbeliever cannot be Biblically baptized. Therefore baptism by itself cannot save without belief and belief cannot save without baptism, BOTH belief AND baptism are necessary.

Romans 10:10 does not say it leads on towards salvation. It is salvation. "Confession resulting in salvation"

 

[LC627]

In John 3, Jesus is speaking with the Pharisee, Nicodemus:

John 3:2-5
He came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.
”Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be BORN AGAIN? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?” Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of WATER and Spirit.

I’ve had countless Protestants tell me that Jesus is speaking here is the amniotic fluid that we are ALL surrounded by in our mother’s wombs. This is the most ridiculous explanation I’ve ever heard because that’s NOT what they were talking about. Nicodemus explicitly asked Jesus how a person can be Born AGAIN.

Through amniotic fluid is the way we are initially born into the world – NOT into CHRIST. We are born into Christ through WATER and Spirit. This is why Peter, comparing the waters of the Flood and the Ark, states that Noah and his family were saved THROUGH WATER – just as “BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU” (2 Pet. 3:21).

As for the Thief on the cross – he was baptized with the Baptism of desire. He never got the chance to be baptized – but he came to faith at the end. God can and DOES make exceptions. That’s how BABIES and aborted children can be saved who never came to faith in Christ.

Baptism is NECESSARY for salvation (Mark 16:16).

I do not believe it has to do with amniotic fluid. I agree with you that it is ridiculous, just as much as the sinners prayer. I believe it refers to the OT, Ezek. 36:24-27

 

[LC627]

This is my opinion on the matter. If a person told me they believe in Jesus but yet refuses water baptism, then I would assume they do not have true faith. How can one have confidence in their faith if they are unwilling to follow the commands of God? That faith is disobedient. Even Jesus was baptized. To reject water baptism is to reject one of the most beautiful acts a person can participate in. It re-enacts the Gospel. Why wouldn't a professing believer in Christ not want to be baptized? It is more than just getting wet, it is a clear status change in everyway possible.

 

[Ac28]

Water baptism has always been an Israel thing and there are references to it in the OT. Everyone in the Bible that was water baptized was either a Jew or was a saved Gentile during the Acts period, all of whom were part of Israel, since they were all grafted into Israel.

We today are not a part of Israel in any imaginable way. In fact, there is no Israel today, in God's eyes, and hasn't been for 1954 years. They will be back as God's people shortly though, in about 2064. We Gentiles are God's chosen people today. The only place you'll find our marching orders for today and what our exact future will bring is in Paul's 7 epistles written AFTER Acts. Water baptism isn't mentioned in those 7 ALL-GENTILE books. If it doesn't specifically say so in those 7 books, it doesn't belong to you. The other 59 books are totally for Israel. Except for Christ, nothing EVER given to Israel was also given to the Gentiles.

Here's a few things that were NEVER, EVER given to you. There are 100s more that the Denominational Church System has stolen from Israel. It really makes no difference, though. Since none of these things were ever given to you, you'll never get them anyway. Go to Paul's last 7 books and see what REALLY belongs to you. Heaven, for example, which no Jew (except Christ) EVER had a chance of going to. Search and See!! Millions of times better than anything ever given to Israel.

These things don't belong to you, or me or anyone, Jew or Gentile, saved after about 64AD. Different people. Different Times. Different Dispensation.
---the rapture,
---the Gifts,
---the New Jerusalem,
---the Acts Church,
---water baptism,
---communion,
---the Lord's prayer,
---the Sermon on the Mount,
---the Kingdom of Heaven,
---the Great Commission,
---the New Covenant,

 

[Enoch111]

Water baptism isn't mentioned in those 7 ALL-GENTILE books. If it doesn't specifically say so in those 7 books, it doesn't belong to you.

More Hyper-dispensationalist nonsense. Just two passages of Scripture will shoot down this theory.

MATTHEW 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. [age] Amen.

Did you notice that: A-L-L N-A-T-I-O-N-S? And then B-A-P-T-I-Z-I-N-G. Since "nations" is a reference to Gentile nations, this is the death knell of Hyper-Dispensationalism. And "even unto the end of the age" means until the second coming of Christ (when the Church Age is finished). But it gets even better.

MARK 16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

"All nations" is comprehensive, but "all the world" is even more comprehensive, which means that even if there no is nation, it makes no difference. "Every creature" means every human being, since the Gospel is for humans. So all believers MUST BE BAPTIZED until the end of the age. Which means that Hyper-dispensationalists are in gross disobedience to Christ. A very serious matter.

 

[Deborah_]

The sacraments (baptism and communion) are not essential for salvation. We are saved by faith, through the preaching of the word (I Peter 1:23-25; Romans 10:13,14); and our salvation is confirmed by our confession of Christ as Lord (Romans 10:9), not by participating in sacraments (although such participation is itself an act of Christian confession). The thief on the cross next to Jesus (Luke 23:42,43) entered Paradise without the help of any sacraments at all! Cornelius and his friends were received by God into His Kingdom and sealed with the Holy Spirit without water baptism (Acts 10:44-47). Yet Peter did seem to think it necessary for them to be baptised in water as well (Acts 10:47,48).

So the sacraments are not optional. Apart from the thief on the cross (the exception who proves the rule), there is no such thing in the NT as an unbaptised believer. If you believed, you were baptised immediately - even in the middle of the night (Acts 16:32,33)! Baptism was apparently regarded as an integral part of conversion.

Why are the sacraments compulsory? Perhaps because by being administered to all, without exception, they testify that the way of salvation is the same for all, without exception. All the Israelites (without exception) passed through the Red Sea and ate the manna in the wilderness. Similarly, under the New Covenant there is no entry into the Kingdom of God without cleansing (John 13:8), and no eternal life that is not derived from the life of Jesus (John 6:53). Anyone who chooses to opt out of the sacraments is not only disobeying Christ’s clear commands but also, in effect, declaring that they do not need Him.

 

[farouk]

The sacraments (baptism and communion) are not essential for salvation. We are saved by faith, through the preaching of the word (I Peter 1:23-25; Romans 10:13,14); and our salvation is confirmed by our confession of Christ as Lord (Romans 10:9), not by participating in sacraments (although such participation is itself an act of Christian confession). The thief on the cross next to Jesus (Luke 23:42,43) entered Paradise without the help of any sacraments at all! Cornelius and his friends were received by God into His Kingdom and sealed with the Holy Spirit without water baptism (Acts 10:44-47). Yet Peter did seem to think it necessary for them to be baptised in water as well (Acts 10:47,48).

So the sacraments are not optional. Apart from the thief on the cross (the exception who proves the rule), there is no such thing in the NT as an unbaptised believer. If you believed, you were baptised immediately - even in the middle of the night (Acts 16:32,33)! Baptism was apparently regarded as an integral part of conversion.

Why are the sacraments compulsory? Perhaps because by being administered to all, without exception, they testify that the way of salvation is the same for all, without exception. All the Israelites (without exception) passed through the Red Sea and ate the manna in the wilderness. Similarly, under the New Covenant there is no entry into the Kingdom of God without cleansing (John 13:8), and no eternal life that is not derived from the life of Jesus (John 6:53). Anyone who chooses to opt out of the sacraments is not only disobeying Christ’s clear commands but also, in effect, declaring that they do not need Him.

Acts 2.41-42 shows the practices of the early believers after they believed: baptism, continuance in the Apostle's doctrine, fellowsing, breaking of bread and prayers.

They believed because they gladly received his word; they were not baptised in order supposedly to become believers.

 

[friend of]

Oh look, it's this one again!

Water baptism is a man performed ritual and man performed rituals in and of themselves do not save.

 

[LC627]

Oh look, it's this one again!

Water baptism is a man performed ritual and man performed rituals in and of themselves do not save.

Also, in order to be saved one needs...
1) A person to baptize them
2) A body of water deep enough to be immersed

God's saving power is limited to a location of H20.

 

[friend of]

Hahaha. You can't limit God! Good one

 

[Marymog]

You missed a question mark at the end of the title, so its sounds like the truth. Baptism does not save, but confirms that one is saved.

Only the blood of Christ can wash away sins and keeps on cleansing us from all our sins.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 Jn 1:7)

What you are preaching is the opposite of what Scripture says:

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Mary

 

[Marymog]

Also, in order to be saved one needs...
1) A person to baptize them
2) A body of water deep enough to be immersed

God's saving power is limited to a location of H20.

Hi LC,

Where does scripture say one needs to be immersed? I can't find it.

Curious Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

Acts 2.41-42 shows the practices of the early believers after they believed: baptism, continuance in the Apostle's doctrine, fellowsing, breaking of bread and prayers.

They believed because they gladly received his word; they were not baptised in order supposedly to become believers.

Not according to the Bible . . .

Our salvation requires our COOPERATION with God’s grace – and that’s what Baptism is. It is our response to the initial grace we receive when we first believe.

James 2:19 states emphatically that even the DEMONS believe. Belief without cooperation makes you no better off than the demons.

This is why Paul calls us CO-WORKERS (sunergos) with God (1 Cor. 3:9, 1 Thess. 3:2). It is NOT merely His saving grace - but our RESPONSE to it that saves us. Our refusal of His grace gets us nowhere . . .

 

[Marymog]

Oh look, it's this one again!

Water baptism is a man performed ritual and man performed rituals in and of themselves do not save.

LOL....No where in scripture does God use man to perform rituals? Do you expect Jesus to come down to earth and perform all the baptisms so that they are not "man performed"?

Scripture says that the ritual of baptism saves (Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21) so why are you preaching opposite of what scripture says? What is your point?

Curious Mary

 

[LC627]

Hi LC,

Where does scripture say one needs to be immersed? I can't find it.

Curious Mary

The very word "baptizo" in Greek means to immerse / submerge.

 

[Enoch111]

What you are preaching is the opposite of what Scripture says: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Not really. The remission of sins is a result of repentance, not being immersed in water.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. (Acts 3:19)

Acts 2:38 must be understood in view of Acts 3:19. While baptism is mentioned in Acts 2:38, and gives the impression that baptism is for the remission of sins, the other two verses make it clear that repentance leads to remission of sins. Furthermore, if water baptism did indeed fulfil that critical role, then Paul would not have made this statement: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel... (1 Cor 1:17)

 

[Marymog]

The very word "baptizo" in Greek means to immerse / submerge.

Thank you but Not true: Strong's Greek: 907. βαπτίζω (baptizó) -- to dip, sink (dip, implies submersion)
Baptizo - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version (to wash, to make clean with water)
Does the word baptism mean immersion or sprinkling? | CARM.org

As you can see there is more than one meaning to the word baptizo.

Furthermore, historically we know thru early Christian writings, specifically the Diache (70-80AD), that immersion was not used. Did the Christians who walked and talked with the Apostles misunderstand the meaning of the word baptizo or how to properly baptize?

Baptism in the Didache
Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation Roberts-Donaldson).

Last, but not least, would you deny baptism to a person who is, due to medical reasons, physically unable to be immersed in water? I don't think you would. The meaning of the word baptizo and the 2,000 year historical practice/belief of The Church would not deny that person baptism either.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Not really. The remission of sins is a result of repentance, not being immersed in water.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. (Acts 3:19)

Acts 2:38 must be understood in view of Acts 3:19. While baptism is mentioned in Acts 2:38, and gives the impression that baptism is for the remission of sins, the other two verses make it clear that repentance leads to remission of sins. Furthermore, if water baptism did indeed fulfil that critical role, then Paul would not have made this statement: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel... (1 Cor 1:17)

Peter says: Repent AND be baptized for the remission of your sins.

You say: Repent for the remission of your sins.

The act of baptism includes WATER and SPIRIT. Jesus said, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Titus 3:5 and 1 Corinthians 6:11 tie into that passage or as you Protestants say "Scripture interpreting Scripture".

I wonder who I right? Peter and Jesus or Enoch....That's a tough one

Even the great Protestant hero Martin Luther disagrees with you: For to be baptized in the name of God is to be baptized not by men, but by God Himself. Therefore although it is performed by human hands, it is nevertheless truly God's own work. From this fact every one may himself readily infer that it is a far higher work than any work performed by a man or a saint. For what work greater than the work of God can we do?.... if I am baptized, it is promised me that I shall be saved and have eternal life, both in soul and body. (XIII, Part Fourth Of Baptism.)

Mary

 

[friend of]

If immersion in water was what saved people then Paul would have spent more time doing it.

Acts 2:41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

^all 3000 of these new Christian's were not dunked in water yet the bible states they were counted as Christians.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If immersion in water was what saved people then Paul would have spent more time doing it.
Acts 2:41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
^all 3000 of these new Christian's were not dunked in water yet the bible states they were counted as Christians.

You’re right - they WEREN’T dunked in water. That brings up a fantastic point – especially to our “immersion only” friends.

They were in the city of Jerusalem, where there is NO RIVER – yet 3000 people were BAPTIZED.
Acts 2:41 says that ALL 3000 were BAPTIZED. This could only have been done by pouring three times over the head, as we read in the 1st century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles):

The Didache
Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." (Paragraph VII).

Gee – sounds AWFULLY Catholic . . .