Baptism

[Job]

not so but even if it could be because sola scripture is not our final defence but it is yours - twinc

Yes I know. When the scriptures would not allow for your pagan practices, you created something that would. Your defense is nothing more than a lie to appease the dragon within you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And where is it mentioned that Mary only had one child? Where is this mentioned, other than your imagination?

Don't tell me I'm wrong, show me.

I think the better question is: Where is it mentioned in Scripture that Mary had children other than Jesus??
Show me . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Luke 2
7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

The word "firstborn" indicates she had other sons after Jesus. At least one anyway..

This is an exercise in ignorance of Scripture.
"Firstborn" simply means the one who "opens his mother's womb" (Luke 2:23).

Exod. 13:2 (KJV)
Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

 

[mjrhealth]

I think the better question is: Where is it mentioned in Scripture that Mary had children other than Jesus??
Show me . . .

ANd where does it say She didnt?????

 

[BreadOfLife]

ANd where does it say She didnt?????

The absence of evidence that YOU should be concerned with.
As an anti-Catholic - YOU are always telling us that we shouldn't recognize things that aren't in Scripture.

So - WHERE does it say that Mary had "other" children.
You are adding to Scripture what is NOT there . . .

 

[101G]

Galatians 1:19 "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother". if one use the word G80 ἀδελφός adelphos (a-d̮el-fos') as (of faith) a brother in our Lord, Jesus), in this case it would be of no used. for the verse qualified it's use, by saying "the Lord's brother" and not "our brother" (as in the Faith). for I'm sure that the apostles also at Jerusalem was Paul's "brothers" in the Faith. but here in this verse he used the "Lord's Brother. in 2 Corinthians 8:22 we see the use of (in the faith as brothers clearly). "And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which I have in you". here this is how G80 ἀδελφός adelphos (a-d̮el-fos') as (of faith) a brother in our Lord, Jesus).

but in direct relation to only his kin in flesh we see it not use as in the FAITH. . scripture, Mark 6:1-6 "And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. (TAKE NOTE OF THIS). And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching".

now, if James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon was his brothers in the faith why not mention by separate name also the other 9 disciples as his brothers in faith, since they was with him, if one use G80 ἀδελφός. adelphos here in this scripture as "brothers" in the faith.

Peace in Christ Jesus, Yeshua.

 

[bbyrd009]

ANd where does it say She didnt?????

how many times you going round this track bro lol

 

[BreadOfLife]

Galatians 1:19 "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother". if one use the word G80 ἀδελφός adelphos (a-d̮el-fos') as (of faith) a brother in our Lord, Jesus), in this case it would be of no used. for the verse qualified it's use, by saying "the Lord's brother" and not "our brother" (as in the Faith). for I'm sure that the apostles also at Jerusalem was Paul's "brothers" in the Faith. but here in this verse he used the "Lord's Brother. in 2 Corinthians 8:22 we see the use of (in the faith as brothers clearly). "And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which I have in you". here this is how G80 ἀδελφός adelphos (a-d̮el-fos') as (of faith) a brother in our Lord, Jesus).

but in direct relation to only his kin in flesh we see it not use as in the FAITH. . scripture, Mark 6:1-6 "And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. (TAKE NOTE OF THIS). And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching".

now, if James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon was his brothers in the faith why not mention by separate name also the other 9 disciples as his brothers in faith, since they was with him, if one use G80 ἀδελφός. adelphos here in this scripture as "brothers" in the faith.

Peace in Christ Jesus, Yeshua.

Because, my linguistically-ignorant friend - "Adelphos(oi)" has MANY meanings that are NOT restricted to uterine siblings.
The Greek word "Adelphos" - like it's Hebrew counterpart "Ach" can also mean: half-brother, step-brother, cousin, uncle, nephew relation, neighbor, fellow countryman, fellow believer, etc.

Here are some examples from Scripture:
In Gen. 14:14, Lot is called Abraham’s "brother" (Ach/Adelphos), even though he was his nephew (Gen. 11:26–28).

In Gen. 29:15, Jacob is referred to as the "brother" (Ach/Adelphos) of his uncle Laban.

Brothers Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar’s daughters married their "brethren," (Ach/Adelphoi) the sons of Kish - who were actually their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

It might interest you to know that of the 344 times we see Adelphos and all of its variations in the New Testament - only 41 (12%) of them are where it is clearly speaking of uterine siblings.
47 (14%) of them may or may not be uterine siblings.
A whopping 256 (74%) of the time - it cannot or most certainly does not be speak of uterine siblings.

You'll have to study a little harder . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

how many times you going round this track bro lol

Some people love circles, ever heard of Spirograph????

 

[mjrhealth]

The absence of evidence that YOU should be concerned with.
As an anti-Catholic - YOU are always telling us that we shouldn't recognize things that aren't in Scripture.

So - WHERE does it say that Mary had "other" children.
You are adding to Scripture what is NOT there . .

And you are doing what????? What is that word you know so well, Hypocrit, liar ?....

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you are doing what????? What is that word you know so well, Hypocrit, liar ?....

Soooo, you can't answer the question??
So - WHERE does it say that Mary had "other" children??

Look - the onus is on all of YOU who say that Mary had "other" children to provide the proof for this claim.
This is Debating 101 . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Soooo, you can't answer the question??
So - WHERE does it say that Mary had "other" children??

And where does it say she didnt?? You just need to justify your "catholic doctrine" what does bible say about that.

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Look - the onus is on all of YOU who say that Mary had "other" children to provide the proof for this claim.
This is Debating 101 . .

Oh so you have no eveidence she didnt, nice call....

 

[BreadOfLife]

And where does it say she didnt?? You just need to justify your "catholic doctrine" what does bible say about that.

Wrong.
YOU need to show where Scripture says that she HAD other children.
In a debate - a person is never asked to provide evidence for a negative. The onus is on YOU to show where Mary had other children.

Debating 101 . . .

Oh so you have no eveidence she didnt, nice call....

I have plenty of evidence to show that she didn't have any other children.
The Bible NEVER says she did.

We also have the testimonies of the Early Church on the subject.
Not ONE Early Church Father ever mentions her having "other" children. In fact - they are UNANIMOUS in saying just the opposite . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Wrong.
YOU need to show where Scripture says that she HAD other children.
In a debate - a person is never asked to provide evidence for a negative. The onus is on YOU to show where Mary had other children.

Debating 101 . . .

I have plenty of evidence to show that she didn't have any other children.
The Bible NEVER says she did.

We also have the testimonies of the Early Church on the subject.
Not ONE Early Church Father ever mentions her having "other" children. In fact - they are UNANIMOUS in saying just the opposite . . .

Actually the bible as you full well know, speaks of Jesus brothers and sisters, no one can say wheter or not they where or not His blood brothers or sisters or not, so that leaves you to prove they where not, could care less about what "learned" people think. very few of them know Jesus at all, all teh care to do is prove to teh world how clever they are, and in tey end, before God they are all just fools.

 

[tabletalk]

Actually the bible as you full well know, speaks of Jesus brothers and sisters, no one can say wheter or not they where or not His blood brothers or sisters or not, so that leaves you to prove they where not, could care less about what "learned" people think. very few of them know Jesus at all, all teh care to do is prove to teh world how clever they are, and in tey end, before God they are all just fools.

I'm happy to see you are using the Bible now to prove things.

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm happy to see you are using the Bible now to prove things.

Teh bible proves nothing, we prove Christ thorough our walk with Him, the world proves God by all that He created, Love proves God because of what it is and does, teh bible is just a book that proclaims God, Teh bible is not my God, God is, the bible is not my Saviour, Jesus is, the bible is not my teacher, the Holy Spirit is, what are people doing here, arguing over the bible. christians can have Christ but they would rather read books and go to church than seek after Him, that is not His doing, but mens.

BOL can quote all he likes, proves absolutely nothing, he has no evidence one way or the other, all this is about is,

Luk 22:24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.

We are all equal in Gods eyes, no matter how men try to prove otherwise.

 

[twinc]

I'm happy to see you are using the Bible now to prove things.

Actually the bible as you full well know, speaks of Jesus brothers and sisters, no one can say wheter or not they where or not His blood brothers or sisters or not, so that leaves you to prove they where not, could care less about what "learned" people think. very few of them know Jesus at all, all teh care to do is prove to teh world how clever they are, and in tey end, before God they are all just fools.

actually again and again, for some unknown reason posts are wrongly read - hear what is in dispute is not what is in the bible but what is not - twinc

 

[mjrhealth]

actually again and again, for some unknown reason posts are wrongly read - hear what is in dispute is not what is in the bible but what is not - twinc

YEs, so much missing, cant imagine a book big enough to contain God, lots not in there.

 

[twinc]

YEs, so much missing, cant imagine a book big enough to contain God, lots not in there.

another twist - not so much missing as added to and subtracted from - twinc

 

[EndTimeWine]

Actually the bible as you full well know, speaks of Jesus brothers and sisters, no one can say wheter or not they where or not His blood brothers or sisters or not, so that leaves you to prove they where not, could care less about what "learned" people think. very few of them know Jesus at all, all teh care to do is prove to teh world how clever they are, and in tey end, before God they are all just fools.

I am not discrediting what you assert. Matthew1:25
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
In the KJV it says: Her FIRSTBORN son.
Other bibles like BEREAN 'S Bible is worded: And he knew her not till she borne her son.
The Catholic Revised: but knew her not until she had borne a son.
If the KJV is right then this leaves more room for her having had other children. In any case she had marital relations with her husband, so the possibility is there. Some have said James was one of Christ's half brothers. I am sure the answer is there perhaps this can become a Christian Quest...a search for the truth: Mark 6:3
Mark 6:3King James Version (KJV)
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

John7:3
Jesus Teaches at the Feast
…2However, the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles was near. 3So Jesus’ brothers said to Him, “Leave here and go to Judea, so that Your disciples there may see the works You are doing. 4No one who wants to be known publicly acts in secret. Since You are doing these things, show Yourself to the world.”…
John 7:5New King James Version (NKJV)
5 For even His brothers did not believe in Him.

John7:10

Jesus Teaches at the Feast
…9Having said this, Jesus remained in Galilee. 10But after His brothers had gone up to the feast, He also went — not publicly, but in secret. 11So the Jews were looking for Him at the feast and asking, “Where is He?”…

Now in these verses brother is specifically used over brethren.
breth·ren
ˈbreT͟H(ə)rən/

1. 1.
   archaic plural form of brother.

noun
plural noun: brethren
1.
fellow Christians or members of a male religious order.

Brother:
A brother is a male sibling. Although the term typically refers to the consanguineal relationship, it is sometimes used endearingly to refer to non-consanguineal relationships.[1
So how do we find out who exactly would be half siblings
I think Matthew13:54-55 is the best place. Here Jesus is rejected by His kinsmen and they say this in response to His claims:
The Rejection at Nazareth
…54Coming to His hometown, He taught the people in their synagogue, and they were astonished. “Where did this man get such wisdom and miraculous powers?” they asked. 55“Is this not the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother’s name Mary, and aren’t His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56Aren’t all His sisters with us as well? Where then did this man get all these things?”…

For this response shows he had brothers and sisters. This here is NOT a reference to His disciples. Or the use of brother or brethren in an endearing manner, but as ones knowing His family for they are from there. The Judas here is NOT one of the apostles .
Judas Iscariot was from:
Judas Iscariot
139:12.1 Judas Iscariot, the twelfth apostle, was chosen by Nathaniel. He was born in Kerioth, a small town in southern Judea. When he was a lad, his parents moved to Jericho, where he lived and had been employed in his father's various business enterprises until he became interested in the preaching and work of John the Baptist. Judas's parents were Sadducees, and when their son joined John's disciples, they disowned him.

139:12.2 When Nathaniel met Judas at Tarichea, he was seeking employment with a fish-drying enterprise at the lower end of the Sea of Galilee. He was thirty years of age and unmarried when he joined the apostles. He was probably the best-educated man among the twelve and the only Judean in the Master's apostolic family. Judas had no outstanding trait of personal strength, though he had many outwardly appearing traits of culture and habits of training. He was a good thinker but not always a truly honest thinker. Judas did not really understand himself; he was not really sincere in dealing with himself.

The Simon here is Not the SIMON -PETER who was from:
Simon Peter - TruthBook.com
truthbook.com/jesus/twelve-apostles/simon-peter
When Simon joined the apostles, he was thirty years of age. He was married, had three children, and lived at Bethsaida, near Capernaum. His brother, Andrew, and his wife's mother lived with him. Both Peter and Andrew were fisher partners of the sons of Zebedee. The Master had known Simon for some time before ...
The Apostle James was from:
James, the older of the two apostle sons of Zebedee, whom Jesus nicknamed "sons of thunder," was thirty years old when he became an apostle. He was married, had four children, and lived near his parents in the outskirts of Capernaum, Bethsaida. He was a fisherman, plying his calling in company with his younger brother John and in association with Andrew and Simon. James and his brother John enjoyed the advantage of having known Jesus longer than any of the other apostles.

So, I conclude Yeshua had half siblings. What say you?