Baptism ?

[Heb 13:8]

What has changed over the last 1,960 years

What has changed in 2000 years? Nothing, the true Gospel is preached through belief and confessing only, Rom 10:9. Are you covered under the blood of Christ Mary. Time is short.

 

[Heb 13:8]

we no longer need to obey Christ and the teachings of the Apostles??

that we can not DISOBEY them?

Don't be the accuser of the brethren Mary. That's not nice.

Rom 8:33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself.

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/non-osas-spirit.26006/

 

[Marymog]

Hey, if you wanna follow Jewish traditions and rituals nobody is stopping you Mary. Just make sure you have belief in your heart. God bless.

If it were the year 50 AD you wouldn't be lucky in your belief? (I think that's what you are saying)

 

[Marymog]

Don't be the accuser of the brethren Mary. That's not nice.

Rom 8:33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself.

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/non-osas-spirit.26006/

Once again you are not quoting ANYTHING from scripture about baptism.

Would you care to stay on subject?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Hey, if you wanna follow Jewish traditions and rituals nobody is stopping you Mary. Just make sure you have belief in your heart. God bless.

Christians have been baptizing with h20 for 2,000 years. How is that a Jewish tradition???

Sounds like a 2,000 year tradition implemented and practiced by Jesus and his Apostles. Doesn't it????

Mary

 

[Heb 13:8]

If it were the year 50 AD you wouldn't be lucky in your belief? (I think that's what you are saying)

Mary, I agree that water baptism was popular 2,000 years ago, but if those that Paul and the apostles baptized in H2O did not believe in their heart, then they are no more saved than those in 2018. Belief doesn't change regardless of the year.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Once again you are not quoting ANYTHING from scripture about baptism.

Would you care to stay on subject?

Then don't accuse believers of willful disobedience. Would you care to stay on the subject?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Christians have been baptizing with h20 for 2,000 years. How is that a Jewish tradition???

Sounds like a 2,000 year tradition implemented and practiced by Jesus and his Apostles. Doesn't it????

Mary

It began as a Jewish tradition in Lev 16. Regardless of how it began, H2O without belief in your heart of (death,burial,resurrection) does nothing but make you wet behind the ears, so it's probly best to wear jogging pants.

 

[Nancy]

***

Not as simple as you suggest. But if a person actually reads the words it does become simple but most will reject it.

Many people use John 3:1-6 to support water baptism. -- But what do these scriptures really say?

**** Scripture
John 3:1-6 .. (NIV)
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
**** end scripture

No where in verse 6 do we see water baptism.

It seems to me that in verses 3 and 4 there are only two births being discussed, a man's first birth in the flesh and a necessary second birth of the Spirit. -- Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit." Nicodemus has brought up the subject of being born in the flesh for a second time. What has been said is that physical birth is not enough. Some will disagree but I believe he is talking about our physical birth "birth to flesh" in verse 5 and that there is another birth, "birth to spirit" which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit (NOT MAN)

Since the word baptism was not included in the text, to add it is to change the meaning of the word of God to fit into the theologies of men.

It has been said by another: I think it would be trivial to tell Nicodemus that he had to be born of the water if this meant physical birth. After all, he had already gone through this birth. Why bother to tell him then? -- Why, because it was Nicodemus that brought up the idea of going back into the womb and being born again.

"It seems to me that in verses 3 and 4 there are only two births being discussed, a man's first birth in the flesh and a necessary second birth of the Spirit. -- "Notice that in verse 5 he used the words "born of water" and then "the spirit" and in verse 6, "WHICH AMPLIFIES VERSE 5," He uses the words "birth to flesh" and then "birth to spirit."
This is exactly what I was TRYING to get across, lol. It seems clear to me. Good post.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, I agree that water baptism was popular 2,000 years ago, but if those that Paul and the apostles baptized in H2O did not believe in their heart, then they are no more saved than those in 2018. Belief doesn't change regardless of the year.

Water baptism of Christians has been "popular" (and required) since Jesus was baptized. That is why the NT is filled with examples of baptism.

Did you forget what Jesus instructed us to do? Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,". If you feel comfortable ignoring the instructions of Jesus (and the Apostles) I am concerned for you.

You don't get baptized UNTIL you believe in your heart. Belief FIRST baptism SECOND. One does not get baptized AND THEN ASK, why was I just baptized?

I wouldn't be comfortable telling Jesus/Apostles that H20 is not necessary and announcing to the crowds to ignore the actions and teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. You would. That says ALOT about you. Enough said.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation – The Meaning
YES....BECAUSE JESUS TOLD US TO DO IT. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. (KJV)

If you don't do what Jesus told you to do what happens to you????

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation – The Biblical Evidence

SCRIPTURE SAYS YES...The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (KJV)

[/QUOTE]I destroyed your theory with two WELL KNOWN passages from scripture[/QUOTE]

 

[Heb 13:8]

You don't get baptized UNTIL you believe in your heart. Belief FIRST baptism SECOND. One does not get baptized AND THEN ASK, why was I just baptized?

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. That is correct, belief first baptism second.

Now that we have that out of the way, do you believe that not getting baptized in H2O after you have believed and have received the indwelling Holy Spirit makes you believe any less??

 

[Marymog]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. That is correct, belief first baptism second.

Now that we have that out of the way, do you believe that not getting baptized in H2O after you have believed and have received the indwelling Holy Spirit makes you believe any less??

Thank you.

Jesus said "All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.”

Jesus was baptized with H20 and told us to baptize.

So to answer your question: If you don’t get baptized with H20 you are disobeying Jesus AND not following the example that he gave us. It’s not only a matter of believing in Him it is also a matter of DOIN’G what he instructed us to do for as we know we are justified by our works and are not saved by faith only (James 2:24).

I thought I made my belief pretty clear in post #221. Here is a Summary of post #221:

Baptism with water is VERY important and I would not tell Jesus or anyone else the use of water was not NECESSARY.

I value what Jesus/Apostles told us to do so there must be some "value" to the use of water. Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just like the use of oil in healing. (James 5:14-16, Mark 6:13)

If Jesus and the Apostles practiced the use of water in their baptisms and told us to use water then I would say it is VERY IMPORTANT to do what Jesus/Apostles said and did. Wouldn't you???

We know that the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Since we know that the Son can do nothing by himself (he can do only what he sees his Father doing) then we can safely assume that the use of water in baptism is expected and condoned by the Father. (John5:19-20)

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. (John 3:5 and Titus 3:5)

 

[twinc]

Thank you.

Jesus said "All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.”

Jesus was baptized with H20 and told us to baptize.

So to answer your question: If you don’t get baptized with H20 you are disobeying Jesus AND not following the example that he gave us. It’s not only a matter of believing in Him it is also a matter of DOIN’G what he instructed us to do for as we know we are justified by our works and are not saved by faith only (James 2:24).

I thought I made my belief pretty clear in post #221. Here is a Summary of post #221:

Baptism with water is VERY important and I would not tell Jesus or anyone else the use of water was not NECESSARY.

I value what Jesus/Apostles told us to do so there must be some "value" to the use of water. Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just like the use of oil in healing. (James 5:14-16, Mark 6:13)

If Jesus and the Apostles practiced the use of water in their baptisms and told us to use water then I would say it is VERY IMPORTANT to do what Jesus/Apostles said and did. Wouldn't you???

We know that the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Since we know that the Son can do nothing by himself (he can do only what he sees his Father doing) then we can safely assume that the use of water in baptism is expected and condoned by the Father. (John5:19-20)

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. (John 3:5 and Titus 3:5)

keep it short and to the point = see my post Heaven........closed - twinc

 

[Heb 13:8]

So to answer your question: If you don’t get baptized with H20 you are disobeying Jesus AND not following the example that he gave us. It’s not only a matter of believing in Him it is also a matter of DOIN’G what he instructed us to do for as we know we are justified by our works and are not saved by faith only (James 2:24).

Well, the reason a person comes to faith is not because they studied the right scripture or were good people. God saves sinners, not the self righteous. God doesn't love you any less because you did not get baptized in H2O. You're not thwarting His will because of this either. Jesus wants His children to simply believe on Him and the finished work of the cross.

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:5 is in reference to spiritual water, via Jhn 7:37-39.

Jhn 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. (John 3:5 and Titus 3:5)

The "washing of rebirth" is actually translated "the washing of regeneration".

For example, 1 Pet 1:3 is not saying He has given us a new birth through H2O. No. It says we receive the new birth through belief in the death, burial, resurrection.

Tit 3:4-6 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth (paliggenesia) and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,

1Pe 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

paliggenesia: regeneration, renewal
Original Word: παλιγγενεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: paliggenesia
Phonetic Spelling: (pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: a new birth, regeneration
Definition: a new birth, regeneration, renewal.

God bless

 

[H. Richard]

Well, the reason a person comes to faith is not because they studied the right scripture or were good people. God saves sinners, not the self righteous. God doesn't love you any less because you did not get baptized in H2O. You're not thwarting His will because of this either. Jesus wants His children to simply believe on Him and the finished work of the cross.



Jhn 3:5 is in reference to spiritual water, via Jhn 7:37-39.

Jhn 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.



The "washing of rebirth" is actually translated "the washing of regeneration".

For example, 1 Pet 1:3 is not saying He has given us a new birth through H2O. No. It says we receive the new birth through belief in the death, burial, resurrection.

Tit 3:4-6 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth (paliggenesia) and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,

1Pe 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

paliggenesia: regeneration, renewal
Original Word: παλιγγενεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: paliggenesia
Phonetic Spelling: (pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: a new birth, regeneration
Definition: a new birth, regeneration, renewal.

God bless

***

Mary seems to be a Judiizer, those that try to put Paul's converts back under the law. Water washing was a requirement under the Jewish law of Moses. Today we are not under the law of Moses but when Jesus walked with the Jews He, and the Jews, was under the law of Moses.

Mary should read Paul's writing that PLAINLY tell us we can not be saved by keeping commandments. The truth is that Mary harps on baptism as keeping Jesus' commandment and yet she shows no love for other which is another of His commandments. Her only reason for being on a forum is to accuse others of not keeping commandment when she , herself, does not keep what Jesus commanded. Her only task is to accuse others. This can easily be seen in that every post she accuses others for what they believe

Jesus, Himself, sent Paul into the world to bring in the gospel of Grace but she, and the others like her do not know what grace means much less in placing their belief in it. I don't reply to her any longer. What would be the reason since all she will do is to try and denigrate me. She loves to blacken the name of all others that disagree with her.

I am sure she will attach a reply to this but I know it is only to get me to reply so she can do what she loves to do. The love of God and His children is not in her.

 

[twinc]

Mary, I agree that water baptism was popular 2,000 years ago, but if those that Paul and the apostles baptized in H2O did not believe in their heart, then they are no more saved than those in 2018. Belief doesn't change regardless of the year.

John 3:3 and 5 says it all and really needs no explanation = heaven is opened and it is by belief and expectancy that we enter imho - twinc

Thank you.

Jesus said "All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.”

Jesus was baptized with H20 and told us to baptize.

So to answer your question: If you don’t get baptized with H20 you are disobeying Jesus AND not following the example that he gave us. It’s not only a matter of believing in Him it is also a matter of DOIN’G what he instructed us to do for as we know we are justified by our works and are not saved by faith only (James 2:24).

I thought I made my belief pretty clear in post #221. Here is a Summary of post #221:

Baptism with water is VERY important and I would not tell Jesus or anyone else the use of water was not NECESSARY.

I value what Jesus/Apostles told us to do so there must be some "value" to the use of water. Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just like the use of oil in healing. (James 5:14-16, Mark 6:13)

If Jesus and the Apostles practiced the use of water in their baptisms and told us to use water then I would say it is VERY IMPORTANT to do what Jesus/Apostles said and did. Wouldn't you???

We know that the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Since we know that the Son can do nothing by himself (he can do only what he sees his Father doing) then we can safely assume that the use of water in baptism is expected and condoned by the Father. (John5:19-20)

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. (John 3:5 and Titus 3:5)

as for belief coming first = this is a sham for who certifies or verifies that we truly believe = according to Jesus it is very difficult if not impossible for adults to simply simply believe = hence a very strong case for baptism as children who will simply believe - so water may and should come before certain belief - twinc

 

[Heb 13:8]

Her only task is to accuse others. This can easily be seen in that every post she accuses others for what they believe

Good post brother. I always keep in mind that non-osas and H2O baptism are the two most blasphemy subjects where the devil can really sink his claws and teeth into those who are His true saints...

Thank you for the encouragement, back at ya...

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/non-osas-spirit.26006/

 

[Triumph1300]

Don't forget the speaking in tongues issue.

 

[twinc]

Don't forget the speaking in tongues issue.

Christian white man speaks with fork tongue = wall lizard eats mosquito = no good for mosquito but good for Christian imho - twinc