Be ye doers of the Word...

[Insight]

I am not afraid, Insight. I am a friend of Christ - I recognize Him and His work in the World because I value love. Fear has no place in my walk with Him. I am not afraid to be wrong about doctrine, either - I trust that He will correct all wrongs. Doctrine does not save - only Christ saves and He lives apart from the Bible.

Wow!

This is bold Aspen.

You have gone a step further than Prentis who stated the Word of God (Scriptures) took no part in salvation...but you would now say that it doesnt matter what one believes.

Why would Paul seek to keep the doctrine pure if this was so?

I (Paul) marvel that ye are so soon removed from him (God) that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. [sup]8[/sup] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

So you believe they can be saved whereas Paul decrees a curse?

 

[aspen]

Wow!

This is bold Aspen.

You have gone a step further than Prentis who stated the Word of God (Scriptures) took no part in salvation...but you would now say that it doesnt matter what one believes.

Why would Paul seek to keep the doctrine pure if this was so?

I (Paul) marvel that ye are so soon removed from him (God) that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. [sup]8[/sup] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

So you believe they can be saved whereas Paul decrees a curse?

Paul wrote Corinthians 13 - his doctrine is the same doctrine as Christ's - love. If I ever tried to pervert love, I would indeed be bold. I trust Christ to straighten out all misunderstandings I have about doctrine - I pray that I will always be humble enough to submit my understanding of doctrine to Him. The day I try arguing my pet ideas about doctrine with God is the same day I start competing with Calvin at the foot of God's throne - Lord have mercy on my soul!

 

[THE Gypsy]

Wow!

This is bold Aspen.

You have gone a step further than Prentis who stated the Word of God (Scriptures) took no part in salvation...but you would now say that it doesnt matter what one believes.

Aspen said no such thing. Why do you bear false witness by saying someone said something when they didn't?

I (Paul) marvel that ye are so soon removed from him (God) that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. [sup]8[/sup] But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Paul "marveled" that they were "removed from him (God) that called you into the grace of Christ". And the "gospel" he's talking about is the "message or account" of Jesus...The Bible had not been written yet so he wasn't referring to that.

The verses prior to the one you referenced say...Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal. 1:4-5

Paul made it very clear WHO "gave himself for our sins" and the result of that gift. He also said "According to the will of God" not "according to the Bible"...Which, again, had not been written.

 

[Insight]

So you don’t contend for the faith? Jude 1:3

You would allow false brethren, unawares brought in; to spy out our liberty we have in Christ Jesus, and bring other others into bondage" Gal 2:4.

Maybe you are exaggerating to make a point?

I understand that no believer understands all doctrine perfectly, but in terms of the core doctrines that save surely you teach a Gospel message?

Gypsy speaks about the blood for instance, how it cleanses and saves - is that a message? do you defend such things?

Do you not?

Aspen said no such thing. Why do you bear false witness by saying someone said something when they didn't?



Paul "marveled" that they were "removed from him (God) that called you into the grace of Christ". And the "gospel" he's talking about is the "message or account" of Jesus...The Bible had not been written yet so he wasn't referring to that.

The verses prior to the one you referenced say...Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal. 1:4-5

Paul made it very clear WHO "gave himself for our sins" and the result of that gift. He also said "According to the will of God" not "according to the Bible"...Which, again, had not been written.

Aspen wrote:

Doctrine does not save

Is this true?

 

[Prentis]

Amen to Aspen, this is what the spirit has been impressing on me.

It is such foolishness to think our doctrine saves us, in this case, our doctrine becomes our tower of Babel, by which we try to climb to God.

To be doers of the word includes this; 'walk by the Spirit'. If we truly are walking according tot he Spirit of Christ, we are filled with love and peace and joy, and no man teaches us, but the anointing of Christ himself does (which might be through another man ;) ).

We are saved by Christ, and by being found in him. HE is salvation. The scriptures point TO salvation, that is Christ, but they are not salvation. They save us as a prohpet saves people; by telling them the word of the Lord, that they might go to him.

We would be fools to think that by mere words we have eternal life. It is by abiding in Him!

Glad to have you back aspen, your posts are a blessing! :)

 

[THE Gypsy]

Is this true?

Is what true? That "Doctrine does not save"? If that is what you're talking about the answer is yes...Aspen was correct...Doctrine does not save. Even Atheists have a "doctrine".

The Scripture is clear...There is only ONE way to salvation...The blood of Christ.

Now...You continue to pose questions to others, however, manage not to answer any that are posed to you...Why is that?

 

[Insight]

Again we have a lack of balance in our arguments.

Notice Prentis comment below

this is what the spirit has been impressing on me…

Without providing one Scripture to support his thoughts! 1 John 4:1

I have been waiting for this to occur, not that I desire to see you in this state, but it’s important we identify a false spirit when one presents.

Pauls teaches us very sternly about such things.

[sup]1[/sup] The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith (as taught in the Scriptures) and follow deceiving spirits (as proven from above comment) and things taught by demons. [sup]2[/sup] Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. [sup]3[/sup]

They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. [sup]4[/sup] For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, [sup]5[/sup] because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

There is a truth and that truth is made up of both knowledge and understanding and is taught by the Apostles and Jesus Christ.

Now it’s important you do not misunderstand me here.

Simply possessing a statement of doctrines does not in itself make one godly! ! !

Godliness was not the mere ability to quote page after page of Scripture! A balance of understanding is required.
.
He is seeking us to humbly yield to his principles (doctrines) (1 Tim 3)

True Godliness can only come out of the Living Word but is manifested in conduct and practical theology – this was the case for Paul.

And it should be for us.

The problem here is that many not addressing the sanctification that comes with the Word of God

The word (Scriptures) must be in the mind, but it must be used, it must direct every action. The word must live in us and we must live in the word.

If indeed you believe Jesus to be that Word!

 

[THE Gypsy]

Again we have a lack of balance in our arguments.

Notice Prentis comment below



Without providing one Scripture to support his thoughts! 1 John 4:1

I have been waiting for this to occur, not that I desire to see you in this state, but it’s important we identify a false spirit when one presents.

Pauls teaches us very sternly about such things.

[sup]1[/sup] The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith (as taught in the Scriptures) and follow deceiving spirits (as proven from above comment) and things taught by demons. [sup]2[/sup] Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. [sup]3[/sup]

They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. [sup]4[/sup] For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, [sup]5[/sup] because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

There is a truth and that truth is made up of both knowledge and understanding and is taught by the Apostles and Jesus Christ.

Now it’s important you do not misunderstand me here.

Simply possessing a statement of doctrines does not in itself make one godly! ! !

Godliness was not the mere ability to quote page after page of Scripture! A balance of understanding is required.
.
He us seeking is to humbly yield to his principles (doctrines) (1 Tim 3)

True Godliness can only come out of the Living Word but is manifested in conduct and practical theology – this was the case for Paul.

And it should be for us.

The problem here is that many not addressing the sanctification that comes with the Word of God

The word (Scriptures) must be in the mind, but it must be used, it must direct every action. The word must live in us and we must live in the word.

If indeed you believe Jesus to be that Word!

What does any of that have to do with SALVATION?

When someone comes to you and says "What must I do to be saved?" does your prayer with them go like this "I believe in doctrine. Amen"?

 

[Insight]

Aspen said no such thing. Why do you bear false witness by saying someone said something when they didn't?
Paul "marveled" that they were "removed from him (God) that called you into the grace of Christ". And the "gospel" he's talking about is the "message or account" of Jesus...The Bible had not been written yet so he wasn't referring to that.
The verses prior to the one you referenced say...Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal. 1:4-5
Paul made it very clear WHO "gave himself for our sins" and the result of that gift. He also said "According to the will of God" not "according to the Bible"...Which, again, had not been written.

Gypsy

I see you are hung up on the Word not being written…when in fact it was. Now there were times such as the days of Josiah when the Law was only in oral form (spoken) lost for over 50 years in all Israel!

Thankfully it was found and reforms occured and the covenant was entered into once more!

From the beginning the Word has been spoken, written, carried around in the hearts and minds of His true children.

Like I said in these last silent days the Father has decided to call through his written Word in whatever form that takes!

Bible, Preaching, Talks, Seminars, Paphlets left on a bus, Radio etc etc…all of which comes from the Holy Scriptures which if understood correctly stands true and cannot be broken John 10:35.

Note: I see no one speaking about thier Holiness?

As you quoted “Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father (via His Written Word): To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal. 1:4-5

That His Will is for us to come to knowledge of the Scriptures that are able to make us wise unto salvation.

Sorry I didn’t get to your question...

Insight

What does any of that have to do with SALVATION?

When someone comes to you and says "What must I do to be saved?" does your prayer with them go like this "I believe in doctrine. Amen"?

Good question!

What do we do...we preach a message.

And where do you take them?

You want them to be sanctified dont you? John 6:63?

How are we sanctified?

By what?

John 17:17

Where do you find this?

As Comm said in his wisdom Matt 23:24 applies here.

Yield to the Word and its power and dont be foolish!

 

[Prentis]

What does any of that have to do with SALVATION?

When someone comes to you and says "What must I do to be saved?" does your prayer with them go like this "I believe in doctrine. Amen"?

Well said, Gypsy, it is as ridiculous as the idea that accepting the doctrine of 'being in Christ' makes you to be in Christ. We must truly be in the Spirit, walking in the life of Christ.

[sup]2[/sup]Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
[sup]3[/sup]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

And this is how we discern the Spirits.

Do you use the fact that not all Spirit are from the Lord to say that anyone who says the Spirit impresses something on them is not receiving from the Spirit of God?

We should discern, yes. But once again, you use the word to deny the Spirit.

The word doesn't sanctify man! Once again, you claim all comes from the word, when the word actually points to the Spirit, which is what changes things. The kingdom is not in word, but in power.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Elect according to the word you read, or the Spirit? Once again, the Spirit.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Gypsy

I see you are hung up on the Word not being written…when in fact it was. Now there were times such as the days of Josiah when the Law was only in oral form (spoken) lost for over 50 years in all Israel!

Thankfully it was found and reforms occured and the covenant was entered into once more!

From the beginning the Word has been spoken, written, carried around in the hearts and minds of His true children.

Like I said in these last silent days the Father has decided to call through his written Word in whatever form that takes!

Bible, Preaching, Talks, Seminars, Paphlets left on a bus, Radio etc etc…all of which comes from the Holy Scriptures which if understood correctly stands true and cannot be broken John 10:35.

Note: I see no one speaking about thier Holiness?

As you quoted “Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father (via His Written Word): To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal. 1:4-5

That His Will is for us to come to knowledge of the Scriptures that are able to make us wise unto salvation.

Sorry I didn’t get to your question...

Insight




Good question!

What do we do...we preach a message.

And where do you take them?

So are you saying Paul referenced his letter to the Galatians when it wasn't even written yet? THAT'S a good one!

For whatever reason you seem to be caught up in the art (and I use that word loosely) of pontification, which doesn't add up to a hill of beans if you do not have Christianity 101 down.

Now...How about answering some of the questions I have asked?

 

[Insight]

The word doesn't sanctify man!

John 6:63 John 17:17

You did it again Prentis...you proved that you do not have the spirit in you because the spirit would not disagree with itself!

Please stop digging Prentis

 

[aspen]

The problem here is that many not addressing the sanctification that comes with the Word of God

Fair enough. What is sanctification?

 

[Insight]

Fair enough. What is sanctification?

John 17:17 the Greek is ‘Hagiazo’ it means to ‘Make Holy’. As per Rev 22:11 one must be ‘in thy truth’ for holiness can only come from the Word.

Maybe one should ask what is the sanctifying influence? Eph 5:26 !!!! and John 15:3

Again not my words but His.

Please someone acknowledge the Word (Scriputes are given to do this!)

They (The Scriptures) are essential for Salvation!

 

[Prentis]

John 6:63 John 17:17

You did it again Prentis...you proved that you do not have the spirit in you because the spirit would not disagree with itself!

Please stop digging Prentis

Good catch with John 17:17! You are right, and what I said was wrong, the Lord does sanctify us through his word. :)

But your flaw comes here. You see word as scritpure and scripture only. Yet Christ spoke many things that were not in the old testament, and so did Paul. They spoke the words of the spirit. It is important to understand the nature of the word.

[sup]12[/sup]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The word is living.

 

[Insight]

Good catch with John 17:17! You are right, and what I said was wrong, the Lord does sanctify us through his word. :)

But your flaw comes here. You see word as scritpure and scripture only. Yet Christ spoke many things that were not in the old testament, and so did Paul. They spoke the words of the spirit. It is important to understand the nature of the word.

[sup]12[/sup]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The word is living.

Prentis, Gypsy & Aspen,

I am not against you all, though I percieve you beleive I am.

I am defending truth as revealed to me in the Holy Scriptures. I am also defending a prayer given a long time ago by a King I love and serve.

He prayed to his Father in John 17.

“I have given them thy Word” John 17:17 and its that word alone that inwardly sanctifies us is today the cause of our persecution Acts 5:41. But he promised that same Word will also make us alive if implanted, the seed will grow and be fruitful until eternal life. ​

.​

John 17:20 “Through their word” As Gypsy rightly suggested firstly by their oral teachings as per Rom 10:14, 2 Cor 5:19-20. And to us by their writings today John 20:20,30,31, 1 Pet 1:11,12.​

.​

The Word (Scriptures) are His personal thoughts (His Mind) to US and are the binding agent that brings us together, unity is only through His Word and understanding it is Life and Peace. ​

. ​

That is why Jesus prayed such that we would all remain in His Word because he knew nowhere else is salvation found.​

.​

Inside the Power of His spoken Word and to Love His Word is to Love His Son.​

.​

John 17:26 The quality of our Father’s love of his son was to give him in fulness the Word of His Power which Jesuis used to upohold all things (Heb 1:3) it is the quality of their love together.​

.​

And its this love Jesus finished his prayer...​

.​

"I in them"



​

 

[Prentis]

Did Jesus give them a written copy of the new testament, or the living word, the life, the revelation of the Father?

We are to abide in Christ, who is the word. :)

The scriptures are very useful, and through them, the Lord can teach us much, but without the Spirit, all this is empty.

 

[aspen]

Insight - thanks for clarifying that you are not against me - for the record, I never thought you were. I think of you as a fellow Christian and I enjoy our conversations.

As far as the issue of sanctification - I noticed that you defined it as 'the process of becoming Holy' - I could not agree more! I believe the process is comprised of teachings from the HS and practice of those teaching in the form of love.

I think we actually agree.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Insight...A few questions left unanswered...

Can you show me, where exactly in the Scriptures, it says "Salvation comes from reading the Bible"? Or "The purpose of the Bible is to save"?

Why do you bear false witness by saying someone said something when they didn't?

When someone comes to you and says "What must I do to be saved?" does your prayer with them go like this "I believe in doctrine. Amen"?

 

[Insight]

Insight...A few questions left unanswered...

1. 2 Tim 3:15 has long been the key verse to explain that salvation cannot be sought anywhere else but the Word of God (The Word is in the Scriptures) its Inspired and given to Inspire those who take it in.

2. My response perceived Aspens comment “Doctrine does not save” to mean that a person can be saved with understanding doctrine (teaching) which is not consistent with the sanctification of the Word as found in the Scriptures.

3. You have asked me what my prayer might be: I would pray for them come to an understanding (not just knowledge) but a certain type of knowledge as revealed in 2 Cor 4:6KJV.

It’s a very special knowledge that, if in us, in the earthen vessel will save us. It’s found in the Holy Scriptures and has gone throughout the whole earth (Mark 16:16)

On a personal note: I apologise if I have falsely accused anyone here – I am fallible, unlike my Lord, and it’s in him I live and have been blessed with the blessing from the Scriptures (Word) of truth which come from God. I want to present him perfect, pure and holy and often this is not the case (because of sin).

I hope in some small way our appreciation to the Scriptures is like our Lords in his prayer, and I feel blessed that while we are not given all of the Words spoken of Christ – the Father has provided enough of his word for us to work out our salvation with trembling and fear, for without them, we would be lost in gentile darkness having no hope in this world.

The Word is Spirit and Light of Life is through His Word to those who allow it guide them as Peter said:

And we have something more sure, the prophetic Word (Scriptures), to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,

Until Christ arises in the earth they are our light!

Insight