"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[JustMe]

Let's try again:

ADOPTIONISM IS HERETICAL.

God said THIS IS MY SON....
Not
NOW THIS IS MY SON


Matthew 3:17
17 and behold, there was a voice out of the heavens saying, “This is [a]My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”


And caps are used for a specific reason...
because the internet generation does not know the reason, is not my responsibility.

Well can you provide more detail about your knowledge of this so-called adoptionism. There are a few forms you know. Without this information all I see you waving is a slogan without any clear meaning. Name the major forms of it and then we might have a discussion, if that's your intent. If not, then I going to move on

 

[GodsGrace]

I was saying the Holy Spirit fully resides in Christ. You told me I would have to use scripture. I did. So, as I believe the Holy Spirit fully resides in Christ, and you believe the Holy Spirit is God Himself, we agree as to the essence of Christ. Only disagreement is his title. Now here's the thing, only a head theologist relying on their academic mind to learn, would then have a problem here. Anyone with Holy Spirit discernment would not.
But as someone said on another website:
Some believe in a Trinity of Father, Son and the bible

you posted

John 20:21
21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”

You didn't state the reason for posting this.

I agree that the Holy Spirit is God Himself.
Just as Jesus is God Himself.

The essence/nature of all three of the Godhead is the same.

You want me to give a title to Jesus?
Like what, for instance? Just one title?
What do you believe His title is?

 

[GodsGrace]

Well can you provide more detail about your knowledge of this so-called adoptionism. There are a few forms you know. Without this information all I see you waving is a slogan without any clear meaning. Name the major forms of it and then we might have a discussion, if that's your intent. If not, then I going to move on

Why would I care to name different forms of Adoptionism?
It's heretical and no need to know about other than that it is not true.

 

[saved by grace 101]

you posted



You didn't state the reason for posting this.

I gave you the reason very clearly for posting what I did.

 

[saved by grace 101]

you posted

John 20:21
21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”

You didn't state the reason for posting this.

I agree that the Holy Spirit is God Himself.
Just as Jesus is God Himself.

The essence/nature of all three of the Godhead is the same.

You want me to give a title to Jesus?
Like what, for instance? Just one title?
What do you believe His title is?

Oh sorry, my mistake, should have put John17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, JUST AS you are in me and I am in you. May they(believers) also be in us so
Thought you would know I made a mistake in the reference to the chapter, as I had quoted Jesus words from 17:21
Believers are in Father and Son through the Spirit
JUST AS...
Ok

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh sorry, my mistake, should have put John17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, JUST AS you are in me and I am in you. May they(believers) also be in us so
Thought you would know I made a mistake in the reference to the chapter, as I had quoted Jesus words from 17:21
Believers are in Father and Son through the Spirit
JUST AS...
Ok

I'm sorry...I still don't understand the point you're trying to make.

 

[saved by grace 101]

I'm sorry...I still don't understand the point you're trying to make.

Well Im sure everyone can see it

I will try once more
Jesus prayed believers would be in Father and son as they are in each other
How can believers be in Father and son? Through the Holy Spirit
Therefore that is how Father and son are in each other
For Jesus prayed:
JUST AS(JUST AS) you are in me and I am in you. May they(believers) also be in us so

 

[GodsGrace]

Well Im sure everyone can see it

I will try once more
Jesus prayed believers would be in Father and son as they are in each other
How can believers be in Father and son? Through the Holy Spirit
Therefore that is how Father and son are in each other
For Jesus prayed:
JUST AS(JUST AS) you are in me and I am in you. May they(believers) also be in us so

Believers do everything through the Spirit.
We are a group (of Christians) through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
We can agree on this.

But you say that Father and Son are UNITED THROUGH the Holy Spirit?
Why do they need uniting? They are already united.

The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God.

The unifying element is their nature, their essence, their eternalness, everlastingness.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Believers do everything through the Spirit.
We are a group (of Christians) through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
We can agree on this.

But you say that Father and Son are UNITED THROUGH the Holy Spirit?
Why do they need uniting? They are already united.

The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God.

The unifying element is their nature, their essence, their eternalness, everlastingness.

Im only quoting Jesus words, it is what he said.
And he said may believers be in him and his father as they are in each other

 

[GodsGrace]

Im only quoting Jesus words, it is what he said.
And he said may believers be in him and his father as they are in each other

OK
So WEHRE in your verse does it state that Father and Son are united throught the Holy Spirit?

 

[saved by grace 101]

OK
So WEHRE in your verse does it state that Father and Son are united throught the Holy Spirit?

That is how they are in each other, I think it is hard for you to accept this

 

[saved by grace 101]

OK
So WEHRE in your verse does it state that Father and Son are united throught the Holy Spirit?

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they(believers) may be one AS AS we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. verses22&23
How can believers be as one?
Only one way, of one heart and one mind, in complete unity through the Spirit:
then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind Phil2:2
And Jesus prayed:
That they may be one AS AS we are one.
The passage is all about the Holy Spirit

 

[GodsGrace]

That is how they are in each other, I think it is hard for you to accept this

I accept all of the Word of God.

It is stated nowhere in your verses John 17:20....that Father and Son are united by the Holy Spirit.

 

[saved by grace 101]

I accept all of the Word of God.

It is stated nowhere in your verses John 17:20....that Father and Son are united by the Holy Spirit.

Well it plainly says father and son are in each other as believers can be in them, and believers can only be in father and son through the Holy Spirit

 

[GodsGrace]

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they(believers) may be one AS AS we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. verses22&23
How can believers be as one?
Only one way, of one heart and one mind, in complete unity through the Spirit:
then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind Phil2:2
And Jesus prayed:
That they may be one AS AS we are one.
The passage is all about the Holy Spirit

OK

So WHERE in the above verses does it state that God Father and God Son are united by the Holy Spirit?

Is the Holy Spirit God just as Son and Father are God?
Where does it state that He is a uniting force?

 

[GodsGrace]

Well it plainly says father and son are in each other as believers can be in them, and believers can only be in father and son through the Holy Spirit

Oh...I see.
You go by "inference".
Inference could be right or it could be wrong.
Better to depend on scripture instead.

 

[saved by grace 101]

OK

So WHERE in the above verses does it state that God Father and God Son are united by the Holy Spirit?

Is the Holy Spirit God just as Son and Father are God?
Where does it state that He is a uniting force?

You've been given the explanation many times, but you dont want to accept it, I do understand, no one changes their mind about anything on these websites

 

[saved by grace 101]

Oh...I see.
You go by "inference".
Inference could be right or it could be wrong.
Better to depend on scripture instead.

Thats funny I gave you the plain words of Jesus on the subject. The Holy Spirit is the key to everything, but is not given so much prominence by the majority on these websites

 

[keithr]

But what you say about "a sinful nature and a divine nature cannot co-exist"--does have one exception, even stated as a "mystery": "Christ in you the hope of God."

That is a misquote. It is not "the hope of God", it is, Colossians 1:27 WEB:

(27) to whom God was pleased to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory;​

Colossians 3:4 WEB

(4) When Christ, our life, is revealed, then you will also be revealed with him in glory.​

Ephesians 1:17-18 WEB

(17) that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him;​

(18) having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope of his calling, and what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,​

 

[ScottA]

You know better Scott.
Please don't use "Son of man" to mean that Jesus was the son of a human being.
Son of Man is found in Daniel 7 and is referring to one who would come and that someone is Jesus.

Daniel 7:13-14
“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And came near before Him.
14 And to Him was given [a]dominion,
Glory, and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations, and men of every tongue
Might serve Him.
His [b]dominion is an everlasting [c]dominion
Which will not be taken away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.


Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man.

Matthew 9:6
6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.”


Mark 14:62
62 And Jesus said, “I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

Agreed, of course, that Jesus was tempted.
But it's the sin nature that makes us sin when tempted.
Jesus never sinned.

I also agree that Jesus had to be man in order to fulfill His being the Savior of mankind.
He had to be both man and God.


You'll have to provide scripture regarding your statements above.
There is no mystery.

GOD does NOT have the sin nature.
The sin nature is NOT an attribute of God.

It is the sin nature that CAUSES sin.


Hebrews 4:15
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things like we are, yet without sin.


Hebrews 7:26
26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;


Hebrews 9:14
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through [a]the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse [b]your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


2 Corinthians 5:21
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Again, I understand your sentiments...but your reverence for all that Christ has done is getting the way of "all truth."

Some of your quoted scriptures actually declare that Jesus was born of that sin nature of all men. 2 Corinthians 5:21 for example says that He (God the Father) made Him (Jesus) who know no sin, sin ("to be" is not in the original manuscripts)--He made Hi sin...in other words.

But also...after it was written "The first Adam" and "the Last Adam", Jesus clarified this issue, saying, "I am the First and the Last."