@Behold, would you expound the following:

[marks]

I also know that some of what @Behold is preaching does indeed contain keys to obtaining victory over sin; however, in certain instances he contradicts the clear teaching of holy scripture; and this is where the red flag goes up in my mind.

The verses in the OP are indeed contradicted by much of what is preached by him...so I would desire to see what he has to say about them so I can see how they are integrated into his theology...unless he truly is attempting to deny them and therefore, in such a case, his judgment would be coming from Revelation 22:19 (kjv).

Rev 22:19, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I think what look like contradictions are not. It is a "general we" I think. If we, as people, say we have no sin, we lie, and the truth is not in us. This is not the Christian. The Christian has confessed their sin, has been forgiven, and cleansed of all unrighteousness. How can that be?

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is also heresy to claim that we must bypass the mind when seeking the Lord.

Isa 1:18, Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

We have to completely let go of the mind of the flesh and completely embrace the new mind of Christ. That mind will not look a thing like the old mind. The New Man functions in a completely different way, and if you try to understand according to the way we used to think it will never work.

This is asking you to leap off a tall building, and THEN find out that you actually can fly! That's why it's called Faith.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I can play devil's advocate.

Behold states...There is no sin in Christ so then by claiming to be in Christ I can also claim to have no sin. In Him is no sin. (simple lawyer strategy)

And on weekends I can dress up as superman and claim to leap over tall buildings in a single bound. (The imagination is a terrible thing to waste. )

I think the problem is that you are looking at this as a "theory", and it doesn't make sense to you, but it won't. It's not a theory, it's a reality. Its a fact of life that is either true for us or isn't - born again, new creation, new man - and if true for us, then we either live accordingly or not.

But the fact is, this understanding is Exactly what the Bible teaches, and the one who keeps these truths will experience that reality, of life in Christ, and power over the flesh. The flesh has no power, IF we are reborn, and when we accept that reality, then we stop living as if it did.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

We have to completely let go of the mind of the flesh and completely embrace the new mind of Christ.

This is not the same thing as bypassing the mind.

 

[marks]

This is not the same thing as bypassing the mind.

Maybe if you pointed to the post you have in mind. I was reading a recent one talking about the carnal mind and the mind of Christ.

?

 

[justbyfaith]

I think what look like contradictions are not. It is a "general we" I think. If we, as people, say we have no sin, we lie, and the truth is not in us. This is not the Christian. The Christian has confessed their sin, has been forgiven, and cleansed of all unrighteousness. How can that be?

Much love!

We may indeed be capable of being cleansed from all sin so that we have no sin in us as the result. But we are not to proclaim that this is what has happened; we are to show it forth by the way that we live. The one who protests that he has been cleansed from all sin, doth protest too much. There is still sin in him.

The one who does not have sin will never proclaim it to be the case. He will simply show it forth by the way he lives.

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

See posts #2 and #3 (@Behold, would you expound the following:).

 

[marks]

We may indeed be capable of being cleansed from all sin so that we have no sin in us as the result. But we are not to proclaim that this is what has happened; we are to show it forth by the way that we live. The one who protests that he has been cleansed from all sin, doth protest too much.

What do these parts mean?

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

lest any man should boast.

That's exactly the point! No one will be able to say, I was So Spiritual . . . So Disciplined . . . So Extra Pleasing to God . . . that I was able to conquer my sin! No one will be able to say that, because Jesus Already Did That. We overcome by faith. In the Finished Work of Christ.

I'm never going to say I never sin, it wouldn't be true! Yet just the same . . .

The Old Man and The New Man

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Maybe if you pointed to the post you have in mind. I was reading a recent one talking about the carnal mind and the mind of Christ.

?

post #16 (@Behold, would you expound the following:)

 

[justbyfaith]

What do these parts mean?

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

See post #2 and #3 (@Behold, would you expound the following:).

 

[marks]

We walk in the light by being transparent before the Lord.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

There is walking in the light, or walking in darkness.
There is having fellowship with God and other believers, or not having fellowship.
There is confessing our sin, or denying our sin.
There is having truth in us, or being deceived.

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

John writes so that all may have fellowship with God, and with believers. This is an appeal, to leave the darkness for the light.

Isaiah 49
8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Why does Isaiah say to those in darkness, Show yourselves? Because when we are conscious of our sin we want to hide. Same as Adam. God wants us to stop hiding from Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

post #16 (@Behold, would you expound the following:)

Thank you!

From that post . . .

We cant understand how to live IN God's Kingdom with our mind, so we have to find out how to get the "mind of Christ", as our "renewed mind", as that mind is the mind that has to be in us for us to exist correctly in the Kingdom of God.

 

[marks]

See post #2 and #3 (@Behold, would you expound the following:).

Can you simplify?

 

[marks]

So then, the one who is cleansed from all sin would never proclaim that he is thus; because he is blind to the fact that he is.

I'm not telling you I never commit sins. But I'm saying that this is the power over sin, according to the Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

Thank you!

From that post . . .

Also from that post...

So, what we wrongly try to do, is use our mind and our reasoning and logic, to try to function in a Kingdom that is Spiritual and alien to our flesh, or logic, or normal mind.
Thats fails.

So, the Key, is to understand that God's Kingdom is not what we can understand by rational mind or reason, or logic.
FAITH, that God requires, exists OUTSIDE of our logic and our reasoning, and our point of view.

 

[marks]

Also from that post...

I'll leave you to take it up with him.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

I'll leave you to take it up with him.

Much love!

I already did. I doubt he will respond.

 

[justbyfaith]

Can you simplify?

Not really. I referenced you to my teaching on the matter; and I don't think I can make it any simpler.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Not really. I referenced you to my teaching on the matter; and I don't think I can make it any simpler.

The controversial doctrine of Sinless Perfection, as it is known, has been around in Christian communities since their origin following the Ascension of Christ and the giving of the Holy Spirit.

The assumption that Christ's atonement for the sins of the world, past, present, and future, automatically excludes a believer from the need for any further confession, repentance, and forgiveness from the moment they first believe, is at the heart of the doctrine of Sinless Perfection.

While it is true that the Holy Spirit never causes anyone to sin, it is not true that Christians are perfect in the sense that the lives they lead are immune to the presence and power of sin, although that is what we should aim for.

If it were true that Christians are sinlessly perfect from the moment they first believe then John would not have written these words:

1Jn 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that you may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (2) and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

Alongside the doctrine of Sinless Perfection is the doctrine of Entire Sanctification which arises from these verses, and of course the finished work of Christ on the Cross does indeed sanctify us entirely whenever we appropriate it.
KJV
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NKJV
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
NASB
1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[marks]

By all means, have at it.

OK!



3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Comment . . . John is writing for the purpose of bringing the reader into fellowship with the believers, and with the Father, and Jesus. So this appeal is towards those who do not have that fellowship.

4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Comment . . . God is light. This is what we have to understand as the foundation. There is a reality of total righteousness of God.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Comment . . . walking in darkness claiming fellowship with God is false.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Comment . . . contrary to walking in darkness, walking in light is to have fellowship, and that the blood of Jesus "is now cleansing" us from all/every sin. This cleansing, present active verb, this is continuous "now", it is right now cleansing me of all sin. Does this mean that I move in and out of sin, and that when I 'repent' from my sin, in the next moment, then Jesus' blood cleanses me from the sin I've committed? In verse 9 he'll use the aorist, simple past tense, to cleanse of from all unrighteousness. Later John will be even more specific to say 'that which is born of God sins not'.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Comment . . . keeping in mind that John will be writing, that which is born of God sins not, how is this not a contradiction? Remember, John is making an appeal to those in darkness to come to the light, to have fellowship. What stops them from coming is the denial that they have sin. This denies who they are, who God is, and what our relationship to Him is. We are separated from God by our sin, and if we refuse to acknowledge that, we cut ourselves off from the remedy.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Comment . . . Confess . . . say the same, to agree with God over our sin, when we do that, it is because we believe Him. " . . . and God counted it unto him for righteousness." We confess our sin, He forgives us . . . sends away our sins . . . and cleanses us.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Comment . . . but again, the contrast with confessing, if we say we have not sinned, we aren't believing God, we don't have His Word.

This appeal was historically made during the rise of actual Gnosticism, which, while a lot of people like to throw that word around at others, the real Gnostics believed a "little god" got loose and created the evil material universe, and that now God is in the business of rescuing us from the evil 'matter'. So they said Jesus was a spirit, not a man, didn't leave footprints, and now, nothing in the material universe matters for anything, only if you believe in God, then you will be spirit with Him after you leave this world, no matter what happens here.

So they like to use that as a pejorative, but I don't know of anyone here who really thinks all that. But to the Gnostics, the idea of sin was fantasy, since all matter was inherently evil, and therefore of course people were evil, and what of it?

So John writes that if you say you have no sin, the thing is, do you have fellowship? If you have sin, and you have not confessed, then you don't. And all have sinned. But the truth is that God has given Jesus as our remedy for sin. God invites us into fellowship with Him, and in Him there is no sin.

So the reality is this. We cut ourselves off from God by denials of sin. But in confessing our sin, our problem of sin is addressed. Believing God brings us into freedom from sin. And then we will have fellowship with Him.

So here is a question . . . if the child of God commits a sin, does this mean that they do not have fellowship with God? Who said, I will never leave you, nor forsake you? Who said, that we may come boldly before the throne to find timely help?

Much love!

 

[FollowHim]

Ive responded to this same question, these verses, in posts to you, at least 20 times.

So, just read this..
-
We as humans are "feel" and "sight" and" "reason" controlled.
We believe what we see . We go by our feelings, and we try to understand things so that by our belief that we understand.... is why we react or commit a response or behavior.
Well, throw all that out forever when you are dealing with your Christianity, as you can't function in the "Kingdom of God", with your normal mind of reason, as its not going to work in that Spiritual place, that is within you, where God exists.

Now let us review these few sentences. To know God, our creator who made us in His image, who came to earth and made friends with His followers. So profound was this friendship, that Peter felt so bold as to tell Jesus off for suggesting he would die, because in a friendship way, Peter knew this man, and wanted to protect Him. Let that idea sink in a little. The King come to earth, is so relaxed and one with normal people who have faith in Him, that they feel they can protect their friend.

In an ultimate sense this is absurd, which is why in this confusion, Jesus rebuked Peter. I mention this because we are alive in Jesus, emotionally, with our sight, reason and everything we are 100% alive. Rather than throwing out what God has made us to be, we embrace it and use it to the power and glory of the Kingdom.

And 100% rationality works with God, when you love Him and His people. It is all about loyalty. Jesus is so keen on loyalty, He openly declares if we are loyal to Him on earth, He will be loyal to us before the Father. If you want a description that is not of Jesus, it is throwing out our God given talents for this "spiritual" spirit other. If you walk this road, it might appear nice for a season but its end is judgement and destruction.

God bless you