LOL I know when I am being baited! LOL
First off there is no real agreement on this and a lot of disagreement.
Mostly what I see here is people talking about born again with little or no scriptural backing. And it is common to take a term that is in the Bible but does not have a real definitive explaination and adjust it to their own beliefs.
People put different significances to the various aspects of the process of salvation. For example some believe that belief in Christ is enough for salvation and born again and the rest is not necessary. Concerned with the question of what if you die before you can repent or be baptized. Of course I believe that is the reason we see such an urgency to be baptized in the Bible.
Christ said Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Some believe that this mean born of the water during deliver and the Spirit. I disagree.
Some believe that it is a special category of being saved....and I say you would need a popup indicator for that and beside it is more like the "elect" concept of the Calvinists.
Paul called Christians saints as in all, no definition and I believe all Christian are saints and born again. The only way this cannot be true is if the person was faking it from the beginning, in which case he was not a Christian or born again. Beyond that you get into experiential sanctification which is not the topic at hand.
As far as I am concerned "being born again" is the most significant event that can happen to a Christian, but it is not wrapped up in one event...it includes the whole process of salvation. Act 2:38 Can you be born again if you know nothing of Christianity....you would not know what to repent and merely taking a dip in a tub is not going to accomplish this.
The process of salvation....
You learn about Christ and Christianity
You decided to place your faith in Christ as the Son of God and Savior. You believe that faith in Christ can save you.
Your lesson in Christianity teaches you what you need to repent of and make the decision to not turn on your vomit of your prior life.
At that point the next most significant event is Baptism...but what is it and what happens and what does it do?
We get a lesson in baptism from John the Baptist. John performed the baptism for the remission of sins.
John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Mark 1:4 People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River. Mark 1:5
Before the arrival of Jesus, John preached a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. Act 13:24
I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Matthew 3:11
So for me the Christian baptism involves repentance and the forgiveness of sins.
So then....Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4
And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Romans 8:11
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 2nd Corinthians 5:17
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; Romans 6:6
So I believe that the person that goes down in that water during baptism is not the same person....as far as God is concerned, physically or spiritually. As far as God is concerned, that never existed. No memory of person and or sins. The person that comes up out of that water is an new person....a new creature....a clean soul....with the slate whipped clean and thrown away. I say thrown away because "the slate" was a tally of sins we had committed against God the Father. So then the Grace of Christ presents us before the Father as blameless, and our sins from that point on are between us and Yeshua...
At that instant we are sinless....the funny is that in early Christianity people would get baptized just before they died so they would be sinless on Judgment Day...not sure if that works LOL
Either way, our journey with Christ then begins...from their we work out our salvation with fear and trembling...Philippians 2:12 Knowing that we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10
But what about the Holy Spirit!? Well some believe it occurs after you come out of the water at baptism. But the bible says it occurs when we come to believe in Christ. I agree with this as a whole....but baptism may have a special signicance....an new person to guide that has fully taken on the faith. I will leave that as my opinion.
Our journey with Christ starts as sinless born again Christians. But we are going to sin and....If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1st John 1:9
P.S You might want to take a look at the Gospel of John chapter 6....Not sure how it would work out arriving on Judgment Day with no life in you and had not abide in Christ....your call.
