Godslittleservant
Active Member
You say Paul did not teach baptism in the name of Christ look at Acts 19:-1-5 and Tell me where Paul says the spirit is given ?
Being filled vs being baptized with the Spirit
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Much love!
Godslittleservant
Active Member
Yes just as Paul said believed included he expected them to have been baptized in the name of Christ but they hadn't been so he did it for them good scripture to back up scripture
Godslittleservant
Active Member
see in verse 13 head the gospel believed and was baptized to get the seal of the holy Spirit of promise
almost word for word as Acts 2 and 19:1-5 and Romans 6:3ff
Ephesians 1:9-17 KJV
9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15) Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16) Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17) That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
"in verse 13 head the gospel believed and was baptized to get the seal of the holy Spirit of promise"
I'd suggest being careful about adding words where they do not appear.
Much love!
Godslittleservant
Active Member
I was thinking that since Paul in Acts 19:1-5 already deals with how one believed was meaning including the baptism in Jesus name where the spirit was given. and wasn't it Paul that said that so it isn't most likely that is the same thing he is saying here or is it here he had a different thought .
Now we have to make scriptures harmonize so I ask myself does this not harmonize with Acts 2 Acts 19 and Romans 6 are they not all talking about the same thing? It would seem to me they are.
Let me ask you this.
Romans 4 teaches very specifically that no work we do has any part of our being justified by God, that this happens from our faith only. How is it that you don't included water baptism as a work, something you must do, a law you must obey, in order to be justified by God, and given a new life?
Much love!
Godslittleservant
Active Member
Let us reason if Paul asked if you got the spirit when you believed and you answered I have never even heard of such a spirit.
Then Paul asked you then into what were you baptized?
Now put on our reasoning cap would that mean that when I was considered a believer it also meant that I had also submitted to the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my sin to receive the indwelling spirit Act 2:38 Mark 16:16 Romans 6:3ff Acts 19:1-5
That seems to be Paul's cause if you believe then you have been baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for that is the only way to receive the promised spirit according to Paul.
Scripture harmonizes with scripture so pretty doesn't.
Then Paul asked you then into what were you baptized?
Now put on our reasoning cap would that mean that when I was considered a believer it also meant that I had also submitted to the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my sin to receive the indwelling spirit Act 2:38 Mark 16:16 Romans 6:3ff Acts 19:1-5
That seems to be Paul's cause if you believe then you have been baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for that is the only way to receive the promised spirit according to Paul.
Scripture harmonizes with scripture so pretty doesn't.
Godslittleservant
Active Member
A command I must obey is repent also believe also confess so why is baptism any different? You do realize it is not man that does the work in baptism but God right? It is God that transforms us from being dead in sin to alive in Christ that is the work being done we only submit to God so he can do it as we are called to do
Being baptized to receive Christ is to perform an obedient act for the purpose of receiving justification and rebirth from God. Isn't it?
Repent - metanoia - is to trade in one's mind for a new mind. This is right alongside Believe. We believe in Jesus, which is repenting from not believing in Him.
Romans 5:18-19 LITV
18) So then, as through one deviation it was toward all men to condemnation, so also through one righteous act toward all men to justification of life.
19) For as through the one man's disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be constituted righteous.
By Adam's sin all were condemned. And so it's by Jesus' single act of righteousness - death on the cross - we are made righteous.
Even simply calling water baptism a necessary act of obedience is contradicted in the Scriptures.
Believing and repentance are what we understand, what we believe and think. First we think we are in charge of ourselves and we do what we want. But then we come to believe that Jesus is actually Lord, having the testimony that God raised Him from the dead, having the power of an endless life, and if we trust in Him, He justifies us and gives us rebirth.
Much love!
Godslittleservant
Active Member
Hope this does not come off as rude but truth in love
"Even simply calling water baptism a necessary act of obedience is contradicted in the Scriptures."
Quite the contrary it is expressly taught but watered down by many a religious group. We have been over passage after passage that put it alone side of belief just as repent and confession we only bulk up on the scriptures that say baptism is part of salvation. We take Mark 16:16 and find all kinds of ways to say it does not mean that baptism is part of salvation even though it clearly says he that believes and is baptized shall be saved so we split off the baptized part and try to explain it away any time we find any hint that baptism is part of salvation which is many we try to explain it away when scripture after scripture tries to teach us otherwise.
Scripture flows with passage after passage teaching us that baptism is supposed to be an act of obedience it is man that is making the contradiction from our misunderstanding not scripture but man.
That is my take my be wrong but from the scriptures I read that is where I am at right now.
Well, again, this is what we are discussing, the question, is it actually?
And here is a passage teaching in very specific and clear detail on this very point, what in fact is the exact thing that brings about our justification.
Consider to whom these passages were addressed, and in what circumstances. And be very very careful to not add words to the text in your mind as you read them, just to take in what is said, and not what is not said.
And consider the passages which teach salvation fully separated from our works, to whom were these addressed, in what circumstances?
And what is narrative, and what is teaching? And what was given to Isreal, and what was given to gentiles?
This answers the differences in the different passages, is what I think.
Much love!
Godslittleservant
Active Member
OK I think I see where you are going the gospel to the Jews and a separate gospel to the gentiles is that where we are headed. I never seen two different gospels during my time of study I also thought the bible taught only one gospel for the Jews and gentile alike that there is neither Jew or gentile but we are are one in Christ and the same gospel for one and all not more than one and only one plan of salvation so you will have to take the wheel and show me where I missed the teaching of two separate gospels one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles.
I already have read it and it will read the same so point out your points of reference and give me details as to why it is your understanding so I can give it a good test against the spirit of the word.
I think that saying "two Gospels" is misleading. But just like God had one plan for Noah, and another plan for Abraham - not two Gospels -
OK, starting at the beginning, God chose Israel, and gave them a covenant where if they kept their part, that they would be the head of nations, and would lend, not borrow, and be healthy, and blessed, and all the world would know their God is the True God.
In the OT, God spoke how the nations would come to Israel to find God, and through Israel, they would. The prophets foretold a time when God would come to live in Jerusalem, to rule the world from there.
Israel was promised a material kingdom which the gentiles were not. Of Israel, it was prophesied that they would be reborn and would keep all the Law. The Gentiles are told they are dead to the Law.
In both cases, we are saved by trusting, believing that what God told us was true.
What did God tell Abraham, that he believed, his believe counted by God for righteousness? Not the same thing that we were told. That he would be father of unnumerable descendants. Just that.
This does not mean there is a different plan of salvation, only that God does different things with different people at different times.
Your thoughts so far?
Much love!
Godslittleservant
Active Member
Scratch this reply got lost in the threads I was dealing with let me try again.
I cannot seem to see what you are pointing out that might say something other than I have already said. You will have to help me see your point so we can discuss our differences. The Passage you posted is leading up to chapter six as to where he explains just how Jesus' single act of righteousness - death on the cross - we are made righteous.
Does not he continue his thought in the next chapter and tell us it was through the baptism into Christ (in the name of Jesus Christ) that God transformed us from dead in sin (Adam) to alive in Christ (the cross)? the context starts in Romans 5:1 and carries through chapter six does it not?
Godslittleservant
Active Member
My thoughts and I have no ready scriptures to support but thought everyone shared (can dig up scripture if needed) is that Gods plan from start to finish meaning the new testament church his kingdom to come was to bring all mankind unto himself (both Jew and gentile) and Jesus was sent to complete the plan.
Starting with the gospel of Matthew Mark Luke and John Jesus came to complete the plan God had started from Adam on.It was always his plan to have one kingdom where all are united in his word.
From Adam to John the baptist there were plays to get to the one plan in Christ .
From John the baptist to Christ going to the cross was transitioning to the completion of the plan, it was the beginning of the one gospel plan of salvation in Christ that all would submit to.
From the cross to today it was always as found in Acts 2, and we have had scriptures we have discussed to point to that fact I thought.
So the way I see it is from Acts chapter 2 where Peter preached the newly completed sermon of Christ's death burial and resurrection it was preached to the Jews and the gentiles alike for as to complete the unity in scripture and not have the problems Paul had to address in
1Corinthians 1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
I feel that the bible is clear we all enter the kingdom the very same way as the 300 that God added to the church on the day of Pentecost. I really cannot see any other way taught to enter into God's kingdom so sorry but that's the way I see it . I am looking at all you have to say but still ..........?
Godslittleservant
Active Member
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Both Peter and Paul taught the gospel of Christ which is the death burial and resurrection both the Jews and the gentiles got the same gospel????? Am I not right??
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Both Peter and Paul taught the gospel of Christ which is the death burial and resurrection both the Jews and the gentiles got the same gospel????? Am I not right??
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
In John 20 Jesus blew the Holy Spirit into the mouths of His disciples, but Jesus then told them to wait in Jerusalem for the baptism of the Holy Spirit for power and boldness.
The 120 disciples received the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, but received their second filling in Acts 4:29-31 where it is called they were filled with the Holy Spirit.
The first time we receive the Holy Spirit is when we are born again of the Spirit and are freed from sin. We also receive the signs of Mark 16:16-18.
I guess you could say I received a double wammy on 2/9/77 because I received both fillings at once.
As far as the apostles it was the second filling for them that Jesus called the "baptism" but Acts 4:33 calls the 120 second filling just filled. But it was for boldness and signs and wonders. Pentecostals would call this one the baptism.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
We think of fire as a cleansing fire, so this could be when we are born again of the Spirit and freed from sin.
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