Not trying to be rude or bullheaded just speaking the truth as I see it and hope I am not blinded but by all the scriptural support I so far am convinced.
I don't see you that way.
I've read your more recent posts, and I feel like we've pretty well stated our positions, so you agree? Do you have questions about my view? I want to give some thought before posting too much more.
I don't think I've outlined my overall view for you, maybe that would be helpful.
Historically, Jews baptized for ritual cleansing as per the Law of Moses, both people and things, to make the unclean to be clean. They included people in this practice who were proselytizing to Israel. Gentiles would be baptized in becoming Jews.
So just imagine when John, this guy with long hair and a camelhair tunic comes striding out of the desert telling them they have to be baptized.
How dare you!!!!!
The OT tells us God's intent for Israel to be the head of nations, and that the other nations were to come to Israel to come into covenant with God. God had no covenant with the gentiles nations. If you wanted to know God, you had to become part of Israel, offering sacrifice, declaring the Lordship of YHWH, committing to keep the Law, and they would baptize you to seal the deal.
Jesus told the Apostles and disciples to go into all the world making disciples of all nations. All nations - gentiles. The Jewish leaders continued to reject Jesus, and by the end of the Acts of the Apostles we see their final rejection, and Paul's declaration that the Gospel would now go straight to the Gentiles.
That didn't happen right away. There was a period of time during which the original plan was still in play,
Acts 3:17-21 KJV
17) And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18) But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19)
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20)
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Were the nation to have received Jesus after He ascended to heaven, Jesus would have returned, and the kingdom age begun. Of course, if they had, Rome would have come down on them hard, and it would be the Time of Jacob's Trouble, out of which he would be saved.
Until the time of Israel's final rejection, until the Gospel being sent directly to the gentiles, gentiles were coming to join Israel, and baptism continued to be practiced. After Israel's rejection, baptism was still practiced, but without any instruction in Scripture. And in fact, what IS written in Scripture after that time has to do with how water baptism isn't what saves us.
Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, did not once teach water baptism. He acknowledged that it was done, particularly for the dead, though we have no teaching of Christianity that we should baptize for the dead. He acknowledged that some did that.
Remember, narrative passages, telling us what someone did, or what someone said, are not the same as teaching passages, which tell us what we should do, and what things mean.
Look at all the places water baptism is spoken of, and how it's spoken of. To whom, by whom? And in what circumstance?
I don't think you will agree with me, I just wanted to be clear about what I think. And I'll be happy to dig into the Scriptures to see whether these things be true.
I believe what we will find is that water baptism is closely associated with conversion at the beginning, but when the Gospel was sent to the Gentiles, when Paul was writing them letters, and teaching personally, that it was all about how there are not any works of any kind that have any efficacy towards our salvation, and in fact that the one work of any kind that brings us rebirth was done by Jesus on the cross.
Much love!
