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Belief vs Unbelief:

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by H. Richard, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. H. Richard

    H. Richard Active Member

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    Subject = Belief vs Unbelief: (belief = trust, faith, confidence. Each can be replaced by the others)

    All through the scriptures man had to make a choice to believe what God said or to not believe what God says. We can see this in the following examples.

    In the garden God told Adam and Eve that if they ate of the forbidden tree they would surely die. Satan told Eve that they would not die if they ate of the forbidden tree
    ** Did they believe God or Satan?

    God told Cain and Abel that He (God) required a blood sacrifice. Abel believed God and offered a blood sacrifice. Cain refused to do it and insisted that God accept the works of his hands in the field.
    ** Did Cain believe God?

    When the Jewish people arrived at the gate city to the promised land God told them to go into the land and He (God) would drive the people there out. Scriptures show that they did not believe God but believed the spies that were sent out. Because they didn’t believe God, God made them wander in the wilderness for 40 years.

    All through the O.T. this same thing happened over and over where men did not believe God.

    When Jesus came He fulfilled all that was written about Him in the O.T. which included raising the dead. Jesus said that He was the Messiah and King that was promised in the O.T.
    ** Did the Jewish nation believe Him?

    Jesus sent Saul/Paul to the Gentiles with a message based on God’s grace. Grace that came by the work of His Son on the cross when He shed His blood to atone (pay for) all the sins of the world. The Scriptures plainly say that all the sins of the world were laid on Him.
    ** Since all the sins of the world were laid on Him then what sins were not laid on Him?

    Isa 53:6
    6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
    NKJV

    Today, under God’s grace, sins of the flesh do not condemn anyone. How can they since Jesus has already shed His blood to paid for them? It seem that the only thing that condemns a person under grace is unbelief; to not believe that Jesus’ shed blood has atoned (paid) for the person’s sins.
    (see NOTE at verse 23)

    Col 1:20-23
    20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
    21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
    22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —
    NOTE: 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
    NKJV
     
  2. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Where do you get this from? I could find no reference to God telling Cain or Abel to offer a blood sacrifice.

    "God told Cain and Abel that He (God) required a blood sacrifice. Abel believed God and offered a blood sacrifice. Cain refused to do it and insisted that God accept the works of his hands in the field.
    ** Did Cain believe God?"
     
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  3. Born_Again

    Born_Again Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    That is an excellent question. I could not find a reference as well. H. Richard, what translation/ version states this?
     
  4. H. Richard

    H. Richard Active Member

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    What was the difference between the two sacrifices? One was an inanimate object and had no live in it.

    Gen 4:3-5
    3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the Lord.
    4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering,
    5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.
    NKJV

    Heb 9:22
    22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
    NKJV

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to be able to see that God excepted Able's sacrifice because it was a blood sacrifice. = Based on Heb 9:22

    No, I agree that the scriptures do not directly say that God told them about a blood sacrifice.

    Now what about the rest of the O.P.? Is it true in your opinion?
     
  5. Born_Again

    Born_Again Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Well, Im not sure what you are asking. You have given examples of unbelief. What are you wanting our opinion on? There's a difference between unbelief and doubt if that is what you are asking.... To doubt does not mean you don't believe. Doubt is bad, don't get me wrong, but it surely isn't unbelief.
     
  6. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Active Member

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    That's a debatable interpretation. WE all know what Hebrews 9:22 says - but Cain and Abel didn't. Nothing had been said to them about the necessity of a blood sacrifice. And when God remonstrated with Cain, why didn't He say "Bring an animal" if that was the problem?

    Hebrew has different words for the different types of sacrifice. What Cain and Abel brought were homage offerings, not sin offerings - so the presence of blood was irrelevant.

    Each brought what they had - but Abel brought the best of the best, whereas Cain brought just any old stuff.
    And in I John we are told that Cain's deeds were evil, even before he murdered his brother (I John 3:12). So his life didn't match his religious profession. That was why his offering was not accepted.
     
  7. H. Richard

    H. Richard Active Member

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    Then let us go on past Cain and Able.

    In the garden God told Adam and Eve that if they ate of the forbidden tree they would surely die. Satan told Eve that they would not die if they ate of the forbidden tree
    ** Did they believe God or Satan?

    When the Jewish people arrived at the gate city to the promised land God told them to go into the land and He (God) would drive the people there out. Scriptures show that they did not believe God but believed the spies that were sent out. Because they didn’t believe God, God made them wander in the wilderness for 40 years.

    All through the O.T. this same thing happened over and over where men did not believe God.

    When Jesus came He fulfilled all that was written about Him in the O.T. which included raising the dead. Jesus said that He was the Messiah and King that was promised in the O.T.
    ** Did the Jewish nation believe Him?

    Jesus sent Saul/Paul to the Gentiles with a message based on God’s grace. Grace that came by the work of His Son on the cross when He shed His blood to atone (pay for) all the sins of the world. The Scriptures plainly say that all the sins of the world were laid on Him.
    ** Since all the sins of the world were laid on Him then what sins were not laid on Him?
     
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