Believing in Jesus Christ Is How We Are Saved

[BreadOfLife]

Obviously, neither one of us are going to agree except to agree to disagree.

Just know that you are still my brother, and at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes, but you are still saved as your spirit will be with the Lord when you die, awaiting for your resurrection after the great tribulation. I do hope the Lord deliver you before He comes. He could still do it.

And I echo the sentiment - minus all of the unbiblical "Pre-Trib Rapture" nonsense.

 

[Robert Gwin]

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

You got that right Dan'l, no one who does not believe in the Son (Jesus) will have everlasting life. Keep in mind however, that many who do believe in him, will not either, as seen in Mat 7:21-23 which leads to the question why? Do you have the answer sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Both statements are true.

1. Romans 8:9
   You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
   
   
2. Romans 8:10
   But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
   
   
3. Romans 8:11
   And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

It is the spirit that was in them maam, v9 and not Jesus himself, which you may agree on. Those individuals Paul was speaking to were actually Christs themselves, as that simply means anointed, in their case anointed by holy spirit. Most Christians today are not anointed, rather are of the other sheep, not of that fold Jn 10:16

 

[Pearl]

@Robert Gwin said It is the spirit that was in them maam, v9 and not Jesus himself, which you may agree on. Those individuals Paul was speaking to were actually Christs themselves, as that simply means anointed, in their case anointed by holy spirit. Most Christians today are not anointed, rather are of the other sheep, not of that fold Jn 10:16

So what about
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27

 

[mailmandan]

You got that right Dan'l, no one who does not believe in the Son (Jesus) will have everlasting life. Keep in mind however, that many who do believe in him, will not either, as seen in Mat 7:21-23 which leads to the question why? Do you have the answer sir?

There are many who believe “mental assent” in the existence of Jesus Christ who will not receive eternal life which is not the same as believing in Him unto salvation. (Acts 16:31)

 

[Robert Gwin]

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Your last passage should clear up the meaning Chris. All Christians are Christ's followers, but not all are sealed with the holy spirit, those anointed ones are sealed as a special possession.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Absolutely no one who doesn't believe in Jesus will be saved for sure Chris, but don't forget the other part, doing the will of God is what actually saves Mat 7:21

Yes.
In order to understand a particular subject, in this case salvation, one must examine ALL the verses that deal with salvation in order to have an accurate understanding of salvation. To take one verse as John 3:16 or cherry pick out verses that mention belief while ignoring all other verses (as Mt 7:21; Luke 13:3; Matthew 10:32-33; Mk 16:16) that deal with salvation is not proper exegesis, not logical but an agenda to push Luther's faith onlyism. All the counsel of God must be examined (Acts of the Apostles 20:27).

How much sense would it make if I took a Hemingway novel I never read, a novel that I know nothing about, I proceed to just read only the first paragraph of page one then declare - 'I know all there is to know about that novel'???

 

[Titus]

In the story of the Philippian Jailer's conversion, many who are faith only salvationists endstop at verse 31.
But as we can read, this is not the full story of the Jailer's conversion.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Endstop.

But if we read all of His conversion in chapter 16, we learn Paul had not yet taught the Jailer the gospel.

Verse 32
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Why would Paul need to teach the Jailer the word of the Lord(gospel), if he had already been saved?

Verse 33 shows us what the Jailer did after Paul taught him the word of the Lord,

Verse 33
And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their strips; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

This proves the Jailer after hearing the full gospel in verse 32. Then immediately was baptized as Jesus commanded in His gospel, Mark 16:15-16.

Perfect harmony with Jesus' gospel.

Notice that the Philippian Jailer did not rejoice at belief alone. But after he heard the full gospel, verse 32, then he rejoiced after baptism,
Verse 34
And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

The full story of the Philippian Jailers conversion is exactly identical to Jesus' gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Making the gospel of Christ consistent with all the conversions of personal named accounts.

 

[mailmandan]

In the story of the Philippian Jailer's conversion, many who are faith only salvationists endstop at verse 31.
But as we can read, this is not the full story of the Jailer's conversion.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Endstop.

But if we read all of His conversion in chapter 16, we learn Paul had not yet taught the Jailer the gospel.

Verse 32
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Why would Paul need to teach the Jailer the word of the Lord(gospel), if he had already been saved?

Verse 33 shows us what the Jailer did after Paul taught him the word of the Lord,

Verse 33
And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their strips; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

This proves the Jailer after hearing the full gospel in verse 32. Then immediately was baptized as Jesus commanded in His gospel, Mark 16:15-16.

Perfect harmony with Jesus' gospel.

Notice that the Philippian Jailer did not rejoice at belief alone. But after he heard the full gospel, verse 32, then he rejoiced after baptism,
Verse 34
And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

The full story of the Philippian Jailers conversion is exactly identical to Jesus' gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Making the gospel of Christ consistent with all the conversions of personal named accounts.

They said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (end stop for verse 31). Baptism was not added to the equation in verse 31. They were saved when they believed (prior to receiving water baptism) just as these Gentiles were saved when they believed prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)

In regards to Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

*HERMENEUTICS*

 

[Titus]

They said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (end stop for verse 31). Baptism was not added to the equation in verse 31. They were saved when they believed (prior to receiving water baptism) just as these Gentiles were saved when they believed prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)

In regards to Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You left out a very important fact and clue about the Jailer's conversion.
Fact: in verse 31 When Paul tells the Jailer to believe in Jesus he had not taught the Jailer the gospel message yet!

The very next verse proves this to be true,
32
Then they spoke the WORD OF THE LORD To him and to all who were in his house.

You do like faith alone teaches do with the Philippian Jailers conversion in Acts 16.
You do not teach the whole story!
You endstop at verse 31.
That is misleading to not share all of what occurred.

Danthemailman's interpretation of Jesus' gospel in Mark 16:15-16
he that believeth and is NOT baptized shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be condemned.

That is not what Jesus taught.
You have changed the meaning of Jesus' teaching.

 

[Titus]

They said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (end stop for verse 31). Baptism was not added to the equation in verse 31. They were saved when they believed (prior to receiving water baptism) just as these Gentiles were saved when they believed prior to receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47)

In regards to Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the one requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

*HERMENEUTICS*

Your cherry picking of belief verses is not how we rightly divide the Gospel.
What about Repentance? Some of these verses, John 3:16 for example does not mention repent.
According to how you use cherry pick verses and say the rest are non-essential.
Then repentance must also not be a requirement in salvation.
It is not listed in every verse either.
You give poor arguments Danthemailman.

 

[Christ4Me]

You got that right Dan'l, no one who does not believe in the Son (Jesus) will have everlasting life. Keep in mind however, that many who do believe in him, will not either, as seen in Mat 7:21-23 which leads to the question why? Do you have the answer sir?

@mailmandan

A saved believer can be denied by Him when they become former believers in denying Him verbally for why He would deny them, but guess wat? jesus is faithful for He still abides in former beleivers. 2 Timothy 2:11-13

Also, any work of iniquity that denies Him Titus 1:16, then by being workers of iniquity is why He will deny them as He did in Matthew 7:21-23.

That iniquity is climbing up another way around Jesus in coming to God the Father by ( john 10:1 ) which is the including of the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

That is what is meant by the broadening of the way ( Matthew 7:13-14 ) when Jesus is the only way in coming to God the Father by John 14:6.

In all of these movements of the "Spirit" when the spotlight & fcous is on the Holy Spirit, seducing sirits moves in to visit & miracles can happen. Matthew 7:21-23 And yet Jesus calls them workers of iniquity.

Jesus continued to explained the effect of this iniquity performing miracles by how believers will "fall" in these movements of the "spirit" as they do in Khundalini.

So believers should not be doubting Jesus's words that He had meant what He had said that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father but by Him only. John 14:6 And that the minute they stop honoring the Son, judgment will be coming for the believer for why God permits the strong delusion to occur for how by that iniquity, many fall in a loss of self control.

They can repent by returning to their first love, heir rest in Jesus Christ as always Spirit-filled since salvation to chase no more for a filling of the 'spirit" for a sign. And they should shun that tongue for private use gained by that phenomenon and pray normally to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers that they knew they had prayed for which is the will of God for US to do.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

 

[Christ4Me]

Your last passage should clear up the meaning Chris. All Christians are Christ's followers, but not all are sealed with the holy spirit, those anointed ones are sealed as a special possession.

Repeating an earlier post for this thread also.

@mailmandan @Ernest T. Bass

There is another fold of sheep that did not follow His voice but a stranger's voice, hence tongues without interpretation, and so assumed for private use and following a stranger's voice as gained by climbing up another way; John 10:1-5

Those that went astray are His sheep for why He MUST bring them ( note verse 16 of John 10:14-16 ) for He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:37-40 ), even though they be left behind. One can contend that in John 6:37, Jesus said He will not cast out, but excommunication is not disavowing them as saved, but for not being ready as found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven which is to be held in sincerity and in truth with no wickedness among them 1 Corinthians 5:4-13

So John 10:16 are not of the fold that follow His voice but a stranger's voice for why He must bring those sheep that went astray as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation when Jesus has come to establish His 1000 year reign on earth and they will literally hear His voice as the King of kings and be of the one fold & one Shepherd too.

 

[JunChosen]

[QUOTE="Robert Gwin, post: 1236716, member: 10159"]Not in you, but as your leader. Christians are followers of Jesus, Jesus is a spirit, who resides in heaven, he does not possess an individual as demons have been recorded as doing. You may have meant that, but I wanted to clarify that point, Jesus is not in us, but we are saved for the why and how that we run that race with endurance. Those who obey the gospel will be saved, a promise from God.[/QUOTE]

I have no idea what Bible you are reading or for that matter, whether you are saved or not, but the Scripture passages below dictates it ALL.

1 John 4:1-6 reads:

1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2) Hereby know ye the spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.
3) And every spirit that confesseth NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is NOT of God: and this is that of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4) Ye are of God little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5) They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6) We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is NOT of God heareth NOT us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Today is still the day of salvation!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Robert Gwin]

@Robert Gwin said It is the spirit that was in them maam, v9 and not Jesus himself, which you may agree on. Those individuals Paul was speaking to were actually Christs themselves, as that simply means anointed, in their case anointed by holy spirit. Most Christians today are not anointed, rather are of the other sheep, not of that fold Jn 10:16

So what about
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:27

You and I know that Jesus went back to heaven, he resides there and he is a real being. He does not inhabit or possess humans as demons sometimes do, therefore he is not personally in anyone. You are taking a translated word and trying to use the translators choice of rendering literal. That is not what is being stated. Using the Bible as a whole, we see that Christ is in union with his brothers and sisters as he and Jehovah are Jn 17:21. Compare multiple translations and research Greek to English lexicons as well. Here is the word that was translated in, and how the King James translated it:
ejn En (en);
Word Origin: Greek, Preposition, Strong #: 1722

1. in, by, with etc.

KJV Word Usage and Count
in 1874
by 141
with 134
among 117
at 112
on 46
through 37
miscellaneous 321

The NWT translates it in union which I believe if you consider the evidence is the actual way it is to be understood maam.

 

[Robert Gwin]

There are many who believe “mental assent” in the existence of Jesus Christ who will not receive eternal life which is not the same as believing in Him unto salvation. (Acts 16:31)

Yes sir Dan, I agree. Many people believe in Jesus, in fact every demon knows beyond a doubt that he existed, yet they have no salvation, and like Jehovah revealed through Jesus' brother James, true believers demonstrate their faith through their works 2:18. There is no doubt that Jesus was correct when he made it very clear that those who do the will of Jehovah will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Obedience to God's laws has been a requirement for life from the very beginning, and God does not change Gen 2:17

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes.
In order to understand a particular subject, in this case salvation, one must examine ALL the verses that deal with salvation in order to have an accurate understanding of salvation. To take one verse as John 3:16 or cherry pick out verses that mention belief while ignoring all other verses (as Mt 7:21; Luke 13:3; Matthew 10:32-33; Mk 16:16) that deal with salvation is not proper exegesis, not logical but an agenda to push Luther's faith onlyism. All the counsel of God must be examined (Acts of the Apostles 20:27).

How much sense would it make if I took a Hemingway novel I never read, a novel that I know nothing about, I proceed to just read only the first paragraph of page one then declare - 'I know all there is to know about that novel'???

Ernie, you may appear ignorant on the show, but that was one of the most intelligent posts that puts understanding into what is necessary to understand the Bible. Kudos to you sir, that was a great illustration that even simple minds like myself can understand. The Bible is to be taken as a whole. One of my favorites is those who quote Acts 16:31 and say they are saved. I can only tell them that I hope they are correct.

 

[Robert Gwin]

@mailmandan

A saved believer can be denied by Him when they become former believers in denying Him verbally for why He would deny them, but guess wat? jesus is faithful for He still abides in former beleivers. 2 Timothy 2:11-13

Also, any work of iniquity that denies Him Titus 1:16, then by being workers of iniquity is why He will deny them as He did in Matthew 7:21-23.

That iniquity is climbing up another way around Jesus in coming to God the Father by ( john 10:1 ) which is the including of the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

That is what is meant by the broadening of the way ( Matthew 7:13-14 ) when Jesus is the only way in coming to God the Father by John 14:6.

In all of these movements of the "Spirit" when the spotlight & fcous is on the Holy Spirit, seducing sirits moves in to visit & miracles can happen. Matthew 7:21-23 And yet Jesus calls them workers of iniquity.

Jesus continued to explained the effect of this iniquity performing miracles by how believers will "fall" in these movements of the "spirit" as they do in Khundalini.

So believers should not be doubting Jesus's words that He had meant what He had said that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father but by Him only. John 14:6 And that the minute they stop honoring the Son, judgment will be coming for the believer for why God permits the strong delusion to occur for how by that iniquity, many fall in a loss of self control.

They can repent by returning to their first love, heir rest in Jesus Christ as always Spirit-filled since salvation to chase no more for a filling of the 'spirit" for a sign. And they should shun that tongue for private use gained by that phenomenon and pray normally to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers that they knew they had prayed for which is the will of God for US to do.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

This is confusing to me Chris, was this for me, or for Dan?

 

[Robert Gwin]

[QUOTE="Robert Gwin, post: 1236716, member: 10159"]Not in you, but as your leader. Christians are followers of Jesus, Jesus is a spirit, who resides in heaven, he does not possess an individual as demons have been recorded as doing. You may have meant that, but I wanted to clarify that point, Jesus is not in us, but we are saved for the why and how that we run that race with endurance. Those who obey the gospel will be saved, a promise from God.

I have no idea what Bible you are reading or for that matter, whether you are saved or not, but the Scripture passages below dictates it ALL.

1 John 4:1-6 reads:

1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2) Hereby know ye the spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.
3) And every spirit that confesseth NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is NOT of God: and this is that of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4) Ye are of God little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5) They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6) We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is NOT of God heareth NOT us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Today is still the day of salvation!

To God Be The Glory

[/QUOTE]

Hi Jun, that is a prime example of why the Bible has to be taken as a whole.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

In the story of the Philippian Jailer's conversion, many who are faith only salvationists endstop at verse 31.
But as we can read, this is not the full story of the Jailer's conversion.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Endstop.

But if we read all of His conversion in chapter 16, we learn Paul had not yet taught the Jailer the gospel.

Verse 32
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Why would Paul need to teach the Jailer the word of the Lord(gospel), if he had already been saved?

Verse 33 shows us what the Jailer did after Paul taught him the word of the Lord,

Verse 33
And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their strips; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

This proves the Jailer after hearing the full gospel in verse 32. Then immediately was baptized as Jesus commanded in His gospel, Mark 16:15-16.

Perfect harmony with Jesus' gospel.

Notice that the Philippian Jailer did not rejoice at belief alone. But after he heard the full gospel, verse 32, then he rejoiced after baptism,
Verse 34
And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

The full story of the Philippian Jailers conversion is exactly identical to Jesus' gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Making the gospel of Christ consistent with all the conversions of personal named accounts.

"having believed" of verse 34 sums up all of what the jailer had just done in repenting (washing their stripes) and being baptized. Here is a perfect example of 'believed" being used as a synecdoche where the part (believed) includes repentance and baptism. Just as "believed" of Acts 2:44 includes being baptized in Acts 2:41.