Believing in yourself means having the courage to stand on your own two feet

[Animal2692]

You cannot believe this.

That is, you cannot believe 'I'm aware of more things' is NOT a change over time.



You cannot believe this.

That is, you cannot believe that being more aware of more things over time does not increase what you are able to perceive now compared to when you had your first memory. You have grown in stature and wisdom immeasurably since then. For instance, your command of language was not a given, right out of the chute.

There's no denying that I haven't grown in wisdom. Being aware of more things is a change. But the very light with which I know anything at all, is what remains changeless. I know more things now than I do back when I was 4, but the knowing substratum or the canvas hasn't changed. For example, take the sky. Whether there's a storm or no clouds, the sky is always there. The sky never changes. When night time comes, does that mean the sun itself has disappeared? No, it's always there. It's only the earth that has turned way from the sun.

Think about this for a second. 'That which notices change must be changeless.' How can something that changes know change? Something has to be still and never come and go in order to notice all other comings and goings.

 

[Animal2692]

Another thing is that religion isn't just potentially harmful in the way that it keeps its adherents from receiving useful medical treatement, it's also potentially harmful in the way that it allows its adherents to do effectively nothing to help others even when they're trying to. A good example of this phenomenon is encapsulated in the clichéd and phrase, 'Thoughts & prayers'. I'm sure they want to help...but only if their prayers actually worked. The danger of prayer comes from the propensity to convince those praying that they're benefitting those they're praying for. Whenever there's a disaster or attack, all over social media we see the assurance of everyone's prayers. Sure some people who pray also help in tangible ways but the majority of them believe that praying alone is sufficient. Like many other atheist activists have said many times, "If all those people realize their prayers don't work, perhaps we'd see a massive increase in charitable giving and a noticeable decrease in human suffering."

 

[lforrest]

Another thing is that religion isn't just potentially harmful in the way that it keeps its adherents from receiving useful medical treatement, it's also potentially harmful in the way that it allows its adherents to do effectively nothing to help others even when they're trying to. A good example of this phenomenon is encapsulated in the clichéd and phrase, 'Thoughts & prayers'. I'm sure they want to help...but only if their prayers actually worked. The danger of prayer comes from the propensity to convince those praying that they're benefitting those they're praying for. Whenever there's a disaster or attack, all over social media we see the assurance of everyone's prayers. Sure some people who pray also help in tangible ways but the majority of them believe that praying alone is sufficient. Like many other atheist activists have said many times, "If all those people realize their prayers don't work, perhaps we'd see a massive increase in charitable giving and a noticeable decrease in human suffering."

I can testify that prayers work. If we pray according to God's will, and know he hears us we can expect an answer.

The answer isn't always what I want to hear, but God makes it known to me nevertheless. Especially with both prayer and fasting. And if I don't like the answer that is my problem, and only proves God is sovereign.

Not many Christians forgo medical treatment because of religious objections. Most believe God can guide the healing professionals efforts. You clearly haven't been at the mercy of incompetent doctors, if you trust them so readily.

 

[Wrangler]

I've heard that one before. "Science answers the how whereas religion answers the why." That why is based on belief, not empirical evidence.

I must have written in an unclear way.

The question of WHY was not meant to be metaphysics but ethics. Most people's ethics are informed by their religious convictions, e.g., the Golden Rule.

 

[Wrangler]

Well getting over yourself doesn't necessarily mean renouncing yourself, but renouncing whatever limiting beliefs you had about yourself. It just means letting go of whatever baggage you're carrying. If you picked up some baggage, you can also put it back down...because you picked it up.

Now, you are talking theoretical belief, absent empirical evidence. Many in AA credit a higher power with their recovery. Maybe there is truth to it.

Being my own God, I accept that I'll make mistakes along the way and that's alright. Even if you decide to pass off the blame, it is still you doing it, is it not?

Yes, it is still you but the question is why would any rational person choose a life that is shorter and less joyful?

 

[Wrangler]

Being aware of more things is a change. But the very light with which I know anything at all, is what remains changeless.

I'm glad you are looking to examples and evidence. Science disagrees with you about what you are aware of. The brain can take 30 years to mature.

For example, take the sky. Whether there's a storm or no clouds, the sky is always there. The sky never changes.

Not true! The constellations now are not what the ancients saw as we move through the galaxy and our galaxy moves toward an impact with Andromedia.

On top of that the moon looked 6x bigger than it does in the night sky.

And then there is Mars, whose atmosphere was once thick enough to prevent water from escaping to space.

Think about this for a second. 'That which notices change must be changeless.' How can something that changes know change? Something has to be still and never come and go in order to notice all other comings and goings.

You are holding something as absolute that is not. A more precise statement is 'That which notices change must change less.' So, while we notice night and day as the side of the planet that faces the sun changes, we tend to notice less the changing height of mountains. For instance, Mount Everest gets taller each year.

 

[2bme]

I agree. Believing in a God is low key avoiding responsibility in my opinion. I'm saying this because those who believe in a God still take responsibility for many things, but it's only because of God that they're able to, not them. It's just this consistent rejection of the self and it's odd to me because even by claiming God is in control, it's you still choosing to believe that. And then of course you have the devil as the polar opposite as someone to take the blame. You do something bad? The devil took over. "The devil made me do it." And if you don't blame a devil, then you blame the fact that you are broken and fallen, born in sin. To further add insult to injury, you are born in sin due to someone else entirely other than yourself (Eve). So it's just too convenient in my opinion to say you sinned because humans are born in sin. If that's not a way of avoiding the crux of whatever you did wrong, then I don't know what is.

People assume you need a God because you cannot control certain things such as mother nature. And I agree, there are certain things you can't control. But here's the kicker, I dont even need to be able to control mother nature or what other people do. I only need to control my reactions to them. I would not even want to be in control of everything, it would be too tiresome and no fun. Being in control of myself only is simply enough despite whatever may happen. If a hurricane comes and sweeps me up for good, so be it. I did what I could and lived life to the fullest.

You do you :)

 

[2bme]

Very good point! We know ourselves. We have to have faith in God.

Is the good point I made as good as any good point Jesus made?

 

[2bme]

In another thread, I provided 5 proofs of God. Proofs of god's existence

I do hope you give this some consideration, starting with what you expect to be indicative of a Creator? (I don't want to hijack this thread. Perhaps you can join the conversation in that thread).

I'll think about it.

 

[Wrangler]

Is the good point I made as good as any good point Jesus made?

Why are you comparing? A is A. Good is good.

I know I liked your point more than Jesus' point of cannibalism. John 6:50-61.

 

[2bme]

Why are you comparing? A is A. Good is good.

I know I liked your point more than Jesus' point of cannibalism. John 6:50-61.

I think, only Jesus knows what that verse means.

 

[Animal2692]

I can testify that prayers work. If we pray according to God's will, and know he hears us we can expect an answer.

The answer isn't always what I want to hear, but God makes it known to me nevertheless. Especially with both prayer and fasting. And if I don't like the answer that is my problem, and only proves God is sovereign.

Not many Christians forgo medical treatment because of religious objections. Most believe God can guide the healing professionals efforts. You clearly haven't been at the mercy of incompetent doctors, if you trust them so readily.

Jehovah Witnesses forego blood transfusions and they consider themselves to be Christian despite what others think.

If someone is starving, giving them food is going to help them more than praying for them. We can speculate and say that prayer can feed their soul and all but they're still not going to have edible food. There's just a point where thoughts & prayers can only do so much, when the person needs actual, tangible help.

 

[Animal2692]

I must have written in an unclear way.

The question of WHY was not meant to be metaphysics but ethics. Most people's ethics are informed by their religious convictions, e.g., the Golden Rule.

This is sort of getting into the territory of, "You can't have morals without God." I mean I guess if the Bible tells you not to kill, that's fine. But you don't necessarily need the Bible in order to not kill. Nordic countries are some of the most secular in the world with some of the highest rates of happiness. Most of the time when people think secular, they think communism and concluded that secularism=bad. But communism for example does not account for the entire secular world. Just going off on a tangent

 

[Animal2692]

I'm glad you are looking to examples and evidence. Science disagrees with you about what you are aware of. The brain can take 30 years to mature.



Not true! The constellations now are not what the ancients saw as we move through the galaxy and our galaxy moves toward an impact with Andromedia.

On top of that the moon looked 6x bigger than it does in the night sky.

And then there is Mars, whose atmosphere was once thick enough to prevent water from escaping to space.



You are holding something as absolute that is not. A more precise statement is 'That which notices change must change less.' So, while we notice night and day as the side of the planet that faces the sun changes, we tend to notice less the changing height of mountains. For instance, Mount Everest gets taller each year.

When I talk about consciousness, I'm talking about pure awareness. It has no dimensions or form. Trying to look for awareness is like trying to see your eyes with your eyes. It's like a knife trying to cut itself-it's not possible. It's pure subjectivity/soul/spirit. Because it has no dimensions, it cannot change. Only something with objective qualities can change.

 

[lforrest]

Jehovah Witnesses forego blood transfusions and they consider themselves to be Christian despite what others think.

If someone is starving, giving them food is going to help them more than praying for them. We can speculate and say that prayer can feed their soul and all but they're still not going to have edible food. There's just a point where thoughts & prayers only do absolutely nothing when the person actually needs tangible help.

Yea, that is an example of religious rules made by men.

As for giving tangible help, the bible agrees with you. James 2:16. The body of Christ we are instruments of his will, to do good works on the earth.
As the bride of the son we make prayers and supplication for that which belongs to the Father.

 

[Wrangler]

This is sort of getting into the territory of, "You can't have morals without God."

Just stating a simple fact, Most people's ethics are informed by their religious convictions. The question of WHY is meant to be a question of ethics, most often answered by religion.

I realize, being your own God, that you want to be your own standard of ethics. So, I'm just presenting a point of comparison.

Most of the time when people think secular, they think communism and concluded that secularism=bad. But communism for example does not account for the entire secular world. Just going off on a tangent

I know its tangential but I do like the tangent in particular and math in general. My pastor recently made the comment that nothing that exists is secular.

My point is not that going it alone is bad but having a relationship with almighty God is better. Why would a rational person choose good over better?

 

[Animal2692]

Just stating a simple fact, Most people's ethics are informed by their religious convictions. The question of WHY is meant to be a question of ethics, most often answered by religion.

I realize, being your own God, that you want to be your own standard of ethics. So, I'm just presenting a point of comparison.



I know its tangential but I do like the tangent in particular and math in general. My pastor recently made the comment that nothing that exists is secular.

My point is not that going it alone is bad but having a relationship with almighty God is better. Why would a rational person choose good over better?

You said by being my own God, I am my own standard of ethics which means I am one out of many other people with differing standards. And here's the thing, even if I am not my own God and go off a religion, then you are going off a religion out of many others as the standard for ethics. Either way, not only does no individual have the absolute truth, but neither does any religion. They all claim they are the correct way and each one of them is unique. I would personally not want to elevate one particular religion over the rest

 

[Wrangler]

When I talk about consciousness, I'm talking about pure awareness. It has no dimensions or form.

Incorrect. It is axiomatic that everything that exists has limits (dimensions) - even the universe.

And I don't think it is becoming for you to only talk about one aspect of a concept. I showed you scientific evidence that our consciousness takes decades to stablize, fully mature. This demonstrates a changing, time-dependent function of what you are reliant upon.

I suppose that leads us into epistemology. You condemn faith but have shown that you have too much faith in what you think you know. You are using a time-dependent function (your own limited consciousness, that had a beginning and will have an end) to make absolute determinations. I'll pray for you.

 

[Nancy]

Your post sounds very arrogant and so I wonder why you would come on a Christian site to promote your belief that you are your own God.

You describe you belief as 'other faith' what does that really mean?

Hi Pat,
I say it means that he has created his "own god". Free will is a wonderful yet dangerous gift.

 

[Animal2692]

Yea, that is an example of religious rules made by men.

As for giving tangible help, the bible agrees with you. James 2:16. The body of Christ we are instruments of his will, to do good works on the earth.
As the bride of the son we make prayers and supplication for that which belongs to the Father.

And that's fine if you send prayers and also offer tangible help. My point is when some people think prayer alone is enough under all circumstances which even you would disagree with lol