Believing in yourself means having the courage to stand on your own two feet

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Animal2692

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Incorrect. It is axiomatic that everything that exists has limits (dimensions) - even the universe.

And I don't think it is becoming for you to only talk about one aspect of a concept. I showed you scientific evidence that our consciousness takes decades to stablize, fully mature. This demonstrates a changing, time-dependent function of what you are reliant upon.

I suppose that leads us into epistemology. You condemn faith but have shown that you have too much faith in what you think you know. You are using a time-dependent function (your own limited consciousness, that had a beginning and will have an end) to make absolute determinations. I'll pray for you.

I'll say this, if it changes..then it is not consciousness. You conflate consciousness with the mind. I'm not talking about conscience or mind, but consciousness only. The medium with which we can know anything at all. It's like the screen onto which a movie is playing.

I have actually tried to find consciousness, I can't. I can't see it anywhere, yet it just is. I cannot find what I call "I" as any object of perception.
 
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Pearl

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Hi Pat,
I say it means that he has created his "own god". Free will is a wonderful yet dangerous gift.
Many people today have created their god SELF and even Christians can sometimes put self above Christ. I think Animal is deluded and has no idea about real Christianity because of some bad experience when he was forced into it as a youngster. He hasn't just turned his back on that branch of the church that hurt him but he has also turned his back on Jesus and the God of creation. Shame.
 

Nancy

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Except that if you actually stick close to your experience, it's always right 'now'. Anything that has happened or will happen, takes place right now. Time is an illusion, a tool to keep track of change. Time simply does not exist when you don't think about it.

Consciousness or awareness is timeless. It is that with which you know anything at all. That pure knowing...never changes, it observes change.

Hello Animal2692,
"Time is an illusion"

Well if that is so, I'd like to see you get it back ;)
The one thing God NEVER gives back to humans is ...time.
 
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Animal2692

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Many people today have created their god SELF and even Christians can sometimes put self above Christ. I think Animal is deluded and has no idea about real Christianity because of some bad experience when he was forced into it as a youngster. He hasn't just turned his back on that branch of the church that hurt him but he has also turned his back on Jesus and the God of creation. Shame.

False. I could not get on board since the day I learned about Christianity, I never had a bad experience because I never subscribed to begin with. My parents never took Christianity seriously so it's not like they were fundamentalists who pushed it on me as a kid. They would only go to church to socialize. There's also many Christians who deconstruct after many, many years of being extremely devoted to the faith. Of course Christians will shun those who leave the faith as "never being true Christians" or "hating God" because they can't seem to fathom that one can reason their way out of faith and be an atheist without having to hate God. This is simply outgroup bias where we look down on those who aren't part of our group. The Christians do it, the Muslims do it, even the atheists do it. Now you might ask, am I not doing it too where I look down on Christians? Not exactly. I like to think of it as looking down on ideas, not people.

The only bad experience I had with Christianity is seeing the bad experiences of other Christians. So did I really have a bad experience personally? I haven't read the entire Bible but read enough to have a conversation about it. There's atheists and ex pastors/priests who have actually read the Bible cover to cover multiple times so even the argument of "Well you didn't even read the Bible fully" is out.
 
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Animal2692

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Hello Animal2692,
"Time is an illusion"

Well if that is so, I'd like to see you get it back ;)
The one thing God NEVER gives back to humans is ...time.

What is your experience of time when you don't think about it? You're not thinking of the past or future. What are you left with?
 

Wrangler

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I'll say this, if it changes..then it is not consciousness. You conflate consciousness with the mind. I'm not talking about conscience or mind, but consciousness only.
Mind and consciousness are synonyms. IF you are parsing them, how are you differentiating them?
 

Wrangler

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What is your experience of time when you don't think about it? You're not thinking of the past or future. What are you left with?
Not being consciously aware of reality does not change reality. It is not time that changes but your conscious awareness of time changing.
 

Animal2692

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Mind and consciousness are synonyms. IF you are parsing them, how are you differentiating them?

Mind and consciousness are not synonyms. Why? Because you are conscious or aware of your thoughts. Consciousness is just a knowing light, that's it. Without it, there would be nothing to illuminate this entire experience right now which you call life. Your mind is a bundle of thoughts and accumulated information strung together. You are aware of your mind because you can literally see a thought pop into your awareness. You know that you are thinking. So who is it that knows that you are thinking? If you are aware of your mind, then you are not the mind since you are aware of it from a distance in the same way that you look at a tree from a distance. Who are you truly then?

The silent awareness/consciousness behind the mind/thoughts. What you are is beyond all concepts, forms, labels, and ideas. 'Consciousness' is just a pointer. Even that is seen.
 
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Animal2692

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Not being consciously aware of reality does not change reality. It is not time that changes but your conscious awareness of time changing.

Everything appears in consciousness. Nothing can exist outside of awareness. Even if you're not there to be aware of a particular object, that object does not exist by itself separate from the awareness of it.
 

Wrangler

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Everything appears in consciousness. Nothing can exist outside of awareness. Even if you're not there to be aware of a particular object, that object does not exist by itself separate from the awareness of it.
You cannot believe existence depends on you being consciously aware of it. Are you seriously claiming existence begins and end with your consciousness?
 

Animal2692

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You cannot believe existence depends on you being consciously aware of it. Are you seriously claiming existence begins and end with your consciousness?

Can the waves of an ocean exist without the ocean? Can a movie be seen without a screen?

We often say how beautiful something like a flower or the moon is. But you know what's truly beautiful? The seeing which illuminates those things.

In the end, all is one...appearing as a multiplicity of forms. That oneness, is love. There is just consciousness and its activity or better put, we are each a part of God. Your consciousness is not different from mine. We have different minds which includes preferences and opinions...but on a deeper level we share the same consciousness.
 
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Davy

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Everytime I hear that it is satanic to believe in yourself, I think just how infantile that line of thought is.
....

And every time I hear someone claim they can believe in theirself, I think of Satan's temptation towards Eve in God's Garden of Eden, lying to Eve telling her she can be her own god.
 

Wrangler

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You cannot believe existence depends on you being consciously aware of it. Are you seriously claiming existence begins and end with your consciousness?

Can the waves of an ocean exist without the ocean? Can a movie be seen without a screen?

I'm sorry animal, I did not catch this post until now.

You seem to be a victim of violating the law of identity, lost in an incomprehensible collective of oneness.

Notice the Freudian slip of the change from definite to indefinite article from one sentence to the next. Also notice the false connection you are making of wave with an ocean.

Waves exist without water. And if you don't watch a movie in one screen, you can watch it on another. However, you are falsely supposing your individual conscious is tied to all consciousness. And even here, you are gravely mistaken. Existence does not depend on consciousness. Rather, it is consciousness that depends on existence.
 

robert derrick

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Can the waves of an ocean exist without the ocean? Can a movie be seen without a screen?

We often say how beautiful something like a flower or the moon is. But you know what's truly beautiful? The seeing which illuminates those things.

In the end, all is one...appearing as a multiplicity of forms. That oneness, is love. There is just consciousness and its activity or better put, we are each a part of God. Your consciousness is not different from mine. We have different minds which includes preferences and opinions...but on a deeper level we share the same consciousness.
Ah, so you are simply a New Age guru.

Well, anyone an illuminate an ocean, but if you can illuminate an outhouse. Now that would be divine of you.

And yes, trees do make sounds when falling in the woods. They just don't cry out for help.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Everytime I hear that it is satanic to believe in yourself, I think just how infantile that line of thought is. God is within, nowhere else outside or in some book, thought, or belief system. It's widely believed that taking oneself to be their own God is satanic and blasphemy. However, I say it's the total opposite. NOT being your own God, light, believing in yourself is satanic. Yourself is all you have at the end of the day, you take yourself everywhere you go. Whether you accept Jesus, follow Islam, etc. it all starts with YOU. No one else makes that decision but YOU.

People think it's selfish to believe in yourself and should therefore not believe in yourself. This is the epitome of weakness being a virtue. There's so much rationalization around not believing in oneself as a means to justify not having fully grown up yet. I have been homeless before without anything. What got me out of it is believing in myself, not praying to some God outside of me. So I say, drop all fear and stand on your own two feet. Even if the body dies, so be it! I accept it fully, I live NOW, not tomorrow. Without death, there is no life. So what is the problem?

I think it is the Christian way to be responsible and to stand on your own two feet. Kids must grow up, get an education and/or a trade, go to work and learn independence.
That's life. These days we have the average boy turning into a man at age 30 after living at home, playing video games, riding his skate board through his twenties, milking his parents. A hundred years ago, 15 year old boys knew how to run their father's farm and go to market, trade and do business, get married at a young age and actually support a family before they were 21. Kids today need a kick in the ass and that is coming from a Christian.
But then once you are on your two feet, independent, moving along and something knocks you off your feet and maybe you can't get up? Or your lose your job, have a bad accident, your wife leaves you and you fall into depression, what then? Maybe you get back on the horse and try again ... then another failure comes that wipes you out again. Now you are defeated and confused. What's it all about? What's the purpose life? What am I going through these ups and downs for? You can't find meaning and when you follow the path in your mind to the end, death awaits you. For some, they even die young.
Our plans and efforts to conquer all the obstacles, tragedies and failures takes courage, but sometimes we lose it within ourselves and become depleted. What do say to that person, "Stand on your two feet?"
He's curled up in a ball, he has lost hope and the will to go on, "What's the point , he cries". This is why we look to God for help, because we can't do it alone anymore. We realize that our way didn't work. Even if you become successful in the eyes of the world, financially that is, you may be empty and unhappy inside. A relationship with God means that you are not a failure, and there is meaning and purpose in life, that you are loved, are special and He will not fail you. Death is not the end and we are given strength to persevere by God towards the finish line. It is a race to the finish. But the finish line is not the end, just a new beginning, an eternal existence. And so this hope gives us reason to go forward. "God causes all things to work together for good for those who love the Lord, for those who are called by His purpose." So everything happens for a reason, even bad things. We learn and we grow from our failures mistakes and losses.
We believe material things are temporal, so we can't take them with us. Even if you have no legs and can't stand, it's temporal and you will walk with the Lord someday.
But selfish people are usually unhappy.
Not everyone that stands on their two feet are happy.
Greedy people stand.
Angry people stand.
Hateful wicked people stand.
Thieves and murderers stand too.
Alcoholics and drug addicts stand ... most of the time.
Most of these people are selfish. "It's all about me, mine and what can I get out of it. They are the takers. They stand on their two feet and take, they rarely give. And they end up losers and miserable.
So stand on your own two feet, but where you stand and what you stand for is important. Jesus wants you to stand by Him
 
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BeyondET

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You only think I'm arrogant because you perceive yourself to be less and you think that in some way makes you more sanctimonious or morally superior than me. Bragging about how much more humble you are is arrogance. So if anything, you are projecting your own arrogance onto me. It wasn't me who first started throwing accusations of being arrogant now was I? It was you. So really at the end of it, you're misusing the word 'arrogance' to refer to what you actually don't like to hear. I would not be surprised if this reply was also more self centeredness and arrogance in your eyes. I understand it might work easily on other people to accuse them of being arrogant but I did not budge and called your bluff instead.

And if you are in the non Christian section, did you not expect to find something unChristian? What brings you to the non Christian section since you're a follower of Jesus? Having doubts?
Interesting I thought the non Christian section is for non Christian things, the concept of God within is a Christian view yet you mentioned God within you.