BEWARE OF THE SPIRITUALIZERS HERE

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WPM

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BRETHREN IN CHRIST JESUS:

I wish that my brethren that are actually serious about their Salvation and Faith on our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would study a little history about the secret societies of initiation and what it is that they teach. You will discover many of the 2nd century doctrines of Gnosticism with what they teach.

The movie The Da Vinci Code with Tom Hanks, is actually based on a theme by Gnosticism. At the end of the movie, it proposed that Christ didn't die on the cross, but was removed before He died, and married and had children. And the question was raised about where His children of the day might be, and they wondered if the offspring 'genetically' inherited Christ's power of miracles. Those ideas in that movie right there are from modern-day Gnosticism, showing it still has followers in the world today that push it, and high up in political power followers too, since they got Hollywood to make those kind of movies based on Dan Brown's Gnosticism books suggesting Christ married and His seed is walking around on earth today.

Here is a website link to the Rosicrucian Order (Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis, or AMORC), headquartered out of San Jose, CA.:


Even deeper, they have in their free online library a work called The Secret Doctrines of Jesus.


Here's an example of their 'secret teaching' rhetoric:
Here are the facts: That Jesus had many private and secret meetings​
or sessions with his disciples and trusted companions is hinted at in​
many parts of the New Testament. There is unmistakable evidence of​
this fact.​
That Jesus possessed some rare, secret, divine, or spiritual, as well as​
semi-scientific knowledge that enabled him to perform miracles and to​
convey this secret knowledge and power to others is also unmistakable​
if we give careful consideration or acceptance to many of the passages​
in the New Testament.​
That the early Christian workers constituting the very foundation​
of the Christian religion were capable of performing miracles, or​
applying divine or cosmic principles in a new and different manner​
from that which had ever been applied before, is impressed upon our​
consciousness as we read and analyze the Synoptic Gospels and other​
parts of the New Testament.​
That the early Christian church was devoted to two phases of​
essential activity—preaching, teaching, postulating, and performing,​
healing, demonstrating—is beyond question.​
That the Christian church of today no longer practices or​
demonstrates those principles of healing or calling upon divine
and natural law for unusual manifestations, but concentrates almost​
exclusively upon preaching and postulating, indicates that the Christian​
church of today and of the past centuries has either abandoned fully​
half of its great work, or that some secret knowledge possessed by the
early Christians has not passed down through the ages from priest to
priest, clergy to clergy, sect to sect.
(from The Secret Doctrines of Jesus by H. Spencer Lewis, one of the first Rosicrucian Imperators in America in the 1900s?)​
(Bold emphasis is mine)​
Those above statements above by Lewis are in preparation for their false declaration that THEY have those SECRETS that Jesus taught in private to His disciples. It's to draw you in ever so slowly and carefully.

How then is that a type of SPIRITUALIZING The Bible? It's because that is using OTHER DOCTRINES to SUPPLANT what the Scriptures in reality actually teaches. And it's EASY to note, because do you see Lewis in the above quote anything about the POWER SOURCE for the miracles Jesus and His Apostles did, like GOD or The Holy Spirit? NO, that kind of reference to God or The Holy Spirit, which IS in The Scriptures, is OMITTED by Lewis. It's because he attributes those miracles to KNOWELDGE OF DIVINE AND NATURAL LAW; in other word SCIENCE, both PARANORMAL and NATURAL. The Rosicrucian Order at their San Jose facility even have a PARANORMAL EXPERIMENT LAB on their campus.

Their practices involve delving into the OCCULT, the SPIRIT WORLD, and they ASSOCIATE that practice with THE SECRET TEACHING OF JESUS? Yes! It's very... dangerous to one's soul!
Matt 11:12
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
KJV


So when you hear someone try to preach The Bible in SPIRITUALIZED RIDDLES, trying to act as if THEY... have some SECRET KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS' TEACHING, then WATCH OUT!
  1. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Satan being cast down from heaven at the second coming?
  2. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the binding of Satan at the second coming?
  3. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked survive the second coming of the Lord?
  4. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Satan survives the second coming?
  5. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for 1000 years after the second coming?
  6. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the wicked populate a future millennial earth?
  7. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that the curse continues unabated on a future millennial earth?
  8. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that mortals will populate future millennial earth?
  9. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that marriage and procreation continue on on a future millennial earth?
  10. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that sin continues on in a future millennial earth?
  11. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that death continues on in a future millennial earth?
  12. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that corruption continues unabated on in a future millennial earth?
  13. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus will rule over his enemies for a thousand years after the second coming?
  14. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the saints rule over mortal humanity for a thousand years?
  15. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that the glorified Church will rule in the Millennial era, causing all on earth to submit to the rule of Christ at that time?
  16. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of the restoring of Israel back to her old covenant theocratic status in a future millennium?
  17. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief of Israel retaking her ancient borders in a future millennium?
  18. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 240 teach the Premil belief that Satan will be released from the bottomless pit 1000 years after the second coming?
  19. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a revival of Satanism 1,000 years+ after the second coming as the wicked in their billions overrun the Premil millennium as the sand of the sea?
  20. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
  21. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that Jesus and the glorified saints will be surrounded by billions of wicked mortals led by Satan 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
  22. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second (or 3rd for Pretribbers) rapture when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
  23. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be a second glorification when the first earth flees away 1,000 years+ after the second coming?
  24. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 last days periods - one before the second coming and one after?
  25. Where do any of the ancient Chiliasts before AD 270 teach the Premil belief that there will be 2 new heavens and new earths one with sin, sinners and corruption in it and the other perfect?
 

IndianaRob

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There are certain ones come here that SPIRITUALIZE The Bible prophecies with pushing FALSEHOODS about endtime prophecy, and Jesus' future return to BEGIN His establishing of HIS FUTURE LITERAL KINGDOM here on earth.

ANY... idea that TODAY, that all endtime prophecy had already been fulfilled back at Jesus' 1st coming, or at 70 A.D., etc., and that Christ's Kingdom has ALREADY COME HERE ON EARTH, is a DOCTRINE OF PAGAN GNOSTICISM.

Pagan Gnosticism governed by Satan's host that has crept into certain so-called Christian denominations and/or Christian Cults, is still... the main enemies here on earth against Christ's Church. What are they actually about?

In the 2nd century A.D., mystic Gnostics influenced by Greek Platonism, Neoplatonism, esoteric Greek philosophy and the Occult, crept into the early Christian Church. Some of the early Church fathers wrote many warnings about them (like Irenaeus). The Gnostics reject Christ's literal death on the cross, and instead believe that His disciples removed Him before He died, and that He married and had children, and lived to old age. That is no better way for Satan to get the deceived to deny Christ's Salvation by Faith on His death and resurrection. If Jesus Christ did not 'literally' die on the cross, then it would mean there is no Salvation Plan.

1. One of the major Bible prophecies given the Church about the very end of this world is that of a one-world beast kingdom setup over all the earth that is to have ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns (Revelation 13:1). And Revelation 13:2 links it to the beast descriptions in Daniel 7. Included with that established one-world beast kingdom over ALL nations and peoples at the end, is the "another beast" mentioned later in that Revelation 13 Chapter which represents the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah that Lord Jesus warned His Church about for the end per Matthew 24:23-26. Apostle Paul also warned about the coming of that false one at the end, prior to Christ's future return, per 2 Thessalonians 2.

2. But what these false apostles that belong to that "another Jesus" instead preach today, is that Christ's Kingdom was ALREADY ESTABLISHED on earth at His 1st coming! That even though Lord Jesus was emphatic in John 18:36 that His Kingdom is NOT of this world, meaning NOT of this present time. Instead, God's Word in many Scriptures reveal Christ's LITERAL Kingdom only will come at His FUTURE 2nd coming, which still has NOT happened yet today!

What did Lord Jesus establish at His 1st coming and death and resurrection? He established His SPIRITUAL KINGDOM only, through His Church on earth. Does that means Christian organizations by men, Church buildings and properties, represent His Kingdom today on earth?? NO! Christ's Church today is of The SPIRIT. No man can destroy, no angel can destroy, Satan cannot touch it! It is because it is of The SPIRIT through His body of many members. This is what Apostle Paul taught in Ephesians 2, the Church's foundation being of the prophets and Apostles, with Christ Jesus as it Cornerstone. Thus the TRUE CHURCH of The SPIRIT is what Lord Jesus established on earth at His 1st coming. That is the Kingdom that has already come.

However, God's Word speaks of a FUTURE LITERAL KINGDOM with Lord Jesus Christ having LITERALLY RETURNED to earth, to REIGN over ALL NATIONS AND PEOPLES with a "rod of iron". And His elect are to literally reign in that future Kingdom with Him. That has NOT... happened yet today! But those deceived by Gnosticism belief all that has already been established today.

What this means is, those deceived with following Gnosticism's false belief that Christ's Kingdom is already established today on earth, they are actually WORKING IN SUPPORT OF THE DEVIL'S COMING ONE-WORLD BEAST KINGDOM to be setup at the very end of this present world. They are NOT prepared for the coming time of "great tribulation" at the end, nor against deception to BOWING IN WORSHIP to the first supernatural Messiah that shows up in Jerusalem, which will NOT BE OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. They are being directed and lied to by false apostles, Satan's servants who disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11).
I believe all prophecy was fulfilled at the resurrection. Can you prove I’m wrong?
 

Davy

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I sure am Davy and I will be until the Lord translates me to the next world.

You know that happens on the day of His future coming, right?

In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul taught that those of us still alive on that day will be 'changed', "at the twinkling of an eye", which means as fast as one can blink the eye.

That means not all... Bible prophecy has been fulfilled yet today.

There's quite a bit of unfulfilled Bible prophecy in The Old Testament too that won't happen until Jesus returns. In Revelation also.
 
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quietthinker

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Your ignorant ramblings mean nothing. Your interpretation of John 18:36 is a complete joke. When Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world He was not saying it was not of this present time. You are twisting the meaning of that verse to fit your false Premil doctrine.

You obviously don't know the context of what it means to not be of this world. Jesus said that He and His followers were not of this world even while in the world. So, He clearly wasn't saying He and His followers were not of this present time by saying they were not of this world.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

This is what Jesus said not long before His death and He knew He would be leaving the world and going to heaven soon after that. He was still in the world when He said that, but He spake as if He was not because He knew He would soon no longer be in the world. But, He said His disciples "are in the world" and at the same time said they "are not of the world" just as He was not of the world.

You are equating Christ's kingdom not being of the world as not being in the world at the present time, but that's not what not being of the world means. Clearly, Jesus Himself and His followers were in the world at the same time that He said they were not of the world. Similarly, His kingdom is in the world, but is not of the world. To not be of the world means to not be worldly and not follow this evil world's ways. Instead of Christ's kingdom being of the world like this world's evil kingdoms, it is of heaven and is righteous instead.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Notice here how Paul contrasts following "after the tradition of men" and "the rudiments of the world" rather than following "after Christ". So, being of the world means to oppose Christ and follow after "philosophy and vain deceit" and "the tradition of men" instead. It is in that sense that Christ's followers are not of the world while in the world and that we are in His kingdom that is not of the world while it is in the world.

If you think you are not in Christ's kingdom now then that would mean you also have not been delivered from the power of darkness.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Understanding scripture as a spiritual document does not mean one is spiritualising it in the sense used by those who feel interpretation of everything must be literal.
The term 'spiritualising' is used by short sightedness which wants to nullify insight into anything disagreed with.
 

Stumpmaster

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No more questions. Just prove the resurrection wasn’t the second coming
I'll let the Word of God speak:

Joh 20:11-18 But Mary stood outside the tomb weeping. And as she wept, she bent down to look into the tomb, (12) and she saw two angels in white sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and the other at the feet. (13) “Woman, why are you weeping?” they asked. “Because they have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I do not know where they have put Him.” (14) When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there; but she did not recognize that it was Jesus. (15) “Woman, why are you weeping?” Jesus asked. “Whom are you seeking?” Thinking He was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried Him off, tell me where you have put Him, and I will get Him.” (16) Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”). (17) “Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’” (18) Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what He had said to her.


Act 1:6-11 So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” (7) Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. (8) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (9) After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. (10) They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. (11) “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
 
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IndianaRob

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I'll let the Word of God speak:

Joh 20:11-18 But Mary stood outside the tomb weeping. And as she wept, she bent down to look into the tomb, (12) and she saw two angels in white sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and the other at the feet. (13) “Woman, why are you weeping?” they asked. “Because they have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I do not know where they have put Him.” (14) When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there; but she did not recognize that it was Jesus. (15) “Woman, why are you weeping?” Jesus asked. “Whom are you seeking?” Thinking He was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried Him off, tell me where you have put Him, and I will get Him.” (16) Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”). (17) “Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’” (18) Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what He had said to her.


Act 1:6-11 So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” (7) Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. (8) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (9) After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. (10) They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. (11) “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
That’s a great place to start. Now reconcile those verses with these verses.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
 

Stumpmaster

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That’s a great place to start. Now reconcile those verses with these verses.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Best not to be confused by the tension between the imminence and the cosmic scope in Jesus’ language.

Matthew 10:23 — “Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.”​

  • Context: Jesus is sending out the Twelve on a mission to preach, warning them of persecution.
  • Interpretive tension: Is this referring to the Resurrection, Pentecost, the destruction of Jerusalem (70 CE), or the Second Coming?
  • Scholarly view: Many scholars argue this refers to a coming in judgment, not the final Parousia. The destruction of Jerusalem is often seen as a localized “coming” of the Son of Man in power and judgment.
  • Unorthodox Forumist confusion: They may conflate this with the Resurrection because it’s a near-term event, but the verse implies a coming after the disciples begin their mission—not simultaneous with Jesus’ death.

Matthew 16:28 — “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”​

  • Context: Immediately follows Jesus’ prediction of his suffering and glory.
  • Common interpretation: This is often linked to the Transfiguration (which occurs just six days later), where Peter, James, and John see Jesus in radiant glory.
  • Alternative view: Some argue it refers to the Resurrection or Pentecost, where Jesus’ authority is manifest. But others see it as a preview of the final kingdom, not its full arrival.
  • Unorthodox Forumist’s angle: They may see this as proof that the Resurrection was the “coming,” but the verse speaks of kingdom glory, not just resurrection life.

Matthew 24:34 — “This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”​

  • Context: Part of the Olivet Discourse, which includes apocalyptic imagery: wars, famines, cosmic signs, and the coming of the Son of Man.
  • Interpretive options:
    • Preterist: All fulfilled in 70 CE with the destruction of the Temple.
    • Futurist: Refers to a future generation that sees the signs.
    • Hybrid: Some events fulfilled in 70 CE, others await the final return.
  • Key issue: “This generation” is often taken to mean Jesus’ contemporaries, which seems to imply a near-term fulfillment. But the scope of events—cosmic upheaval and universal judgment—suggests more than just the Resurrection.

So, was the Resurrection the Second Coming?​


Not quite. The Resurrection is central, but it’s not the Parousia—the climactic return of Christ in glory to judge the living and the dead. The verses you cited speak of judgment, kingdom, and glory—themes that go beyond the Resurrection and point toward a more dramatic consummation.

A Forumist’s unorthodox view might stem from a desire to resolve the tension between Jesus’ statements of imminence and the long delay of the Second Coming. But collapsing all “comings” into the Resurrection flattens the rich, layered eschatology of Matthew’s Gospel.
 

IndianaRob

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Best not to be confused by the tension between the imminence and the cosmic scope in Jesus’ language.

Matthew 10:23 — “Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.”​

  • Context: Jesus is sending out the Twelve on a mission to preach, warning them of persecution.
  • Interpretive tension: Is this referring to the Resurrection, Pentecost, the destruction of Jerusalem (70 CE), or the Second Coming?
  • Scholarly view: Many scholars argue this refers to a coming in judgment, not the final Parousia. The destruction of Jerusalem is often seen as a localized “coming” of the Son of Man in power and judgment.
  • Unorthodox Forumist confusion: They may conflate this with the Resurrection because it’s a near-term event, but the verse implies a coming after the disciples begin their mission—not simultaneous with Jesus’ death.

Matthew 16:28 — “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”​

  • Context: Immediately follows Jesus’ prediction of his suffering and glory.
  • Common interpretation: This is often linked to the Transfiguration (which occurs just six days later), where Peter, James, and John see Jesus in radiant glory.
  • Alternative view: Some argue it refers to the Resurrection or Pentecost, where Jesus’ authority is manifest. But others see it as a preview of the final kingdom, not its full arrival.
  • Unorthodox Forumist’s angle: They may see this as proof that the Resurrection was the “coming,” but the verse speaks of kingdom glory, not just resurrection life.

Matthew 24:34 — “This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”​

  • Context: Part of the Olivet Discourse, which includes apocalyptic imagery: wars, famines, cosmic signs, and the coming of the Son of Man.
  • Interpretive options:
    • Preterist: All fulfilled in 70 CE with the destruction of the Temple.
    • Futurist: Refers to a future generation that sees the signs.
    • Hybrid: Some events fulfilled in 70 CE, others await the final return.
  • Key issue: “This generation” is often taken to mean Jesus’ contemporaries, which seems to imply a near-term fulfillment. But the scope of events—cosmic upheaval and universal judgment—suggests more than just the Resurrection.

So, was the Resurrection the Second Coming?​


Not quite. The Resurrection is central, but it’s not the Parousia—the climactic return of Christ in glory to judge the living and the dead. The verses you cited speak of judgment, kingdom, and glory—themes that go beyond the Resurrection and point toward a more dramatic consummation.

A Forumist’s unorthodox view might stem from a desire to resolve the tension between Jesus’ statements of imminence and the long delay of the Second Coming. But collapsing all “comings” into the Resurrection flattens the rich, layered eschatology of Matthew’s Gospel.
If you're going to use Chatgpt, you have to use it right.

Great — let’s approach Matthew 10:23 strictly based on the KJV wording and grammar, with no theological interpretation added.


Matthew 10:23 (KJV)

“But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Strict Grammatical Breakdown:​

✅ "Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel..."

  • "Ye" = you (plural) — Jesus is speaking to His disciples.
  • "shall not have gone over" = a future perfect tense.
    • It means: by the time a future event happens, this action will still be incomplete.
    • Example: “You shall not have finished dinner by the time I return.”
  • "gone over the cities" = traveled through, visited, or completed the mission in those cities.
    • “Gone over” suggests covering them all — not just visiting one or two.

✅ "...till the Son of man be come."

  • "Till" = until — marks a point before or up to which something happens.
  • "the Son of man" = a title Jesus uses for Himself.
  • "be come" = subjunctive mood, equivalent to “has come” or “comes” in modern terms.
    • “Be come” is an older English structure — not a future tense, but a present perfect-like form.
    • So: “till the Son of man be come” ≈ “until the Son of man has come.”

✅ Literal Meaning (Strict KJV English):​

“You will not have completed traveling through all the cities of Israel before the Son of man has come.”
In plain language:

  • You (disciples) won’t finish going through all the cities of Israel,
  • Before a certain event occurs: the coming of the Son of man.

So What Can Be Concluded Grammatically?​

  • A future event (“the Son of man be come”) will occur before the disciples finish visiting all the cities of Israel.
  • The phrase is forward-looking and structured around incompleteness at a specific future point.
 

Stumpmaster

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So What Can Be Concluded Grammatically?
  • A future event (“the Son of man be come”) will occur before the disciples finish visiting all the cities of Israel.
  • The phrase is forward-looking and structured around incompleteness at a specific future point.
Fallacies of logic in your post noted, but Christians are definitely exhorted to look forward, as follows:


Titus 2:13 “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ”.

It’s a radiant expression of Christian eschatological longing—an anticipation not of doom or mere endings, but of glory, reunion, and redemption. The “blessed hope” refers to the return of Christ, a moment when divine justice and mercy converge in full view. It’s not just a theological concept—it’s a posture of the soul, @IndianaRob, a way of waiting that’s active, expectant, and anchored in promise.
 

IndianaRob

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Fallacies of logic in your post noted, but Christians are definitely exhorted to look forward, as follows:


Titus 2:13 “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ”.

It’s a radiant expression of Christian eschatological longing—an anticipation not of doom or mere endings, but of glory, reunion, and redemption. The “blessed hope” refers to the return of Christ, a moment when divine justice and mercy converge in full view. It’s not just a theological concept—it’s a posture of the soul, @IndianaRob, a way of waiting that’s active, expectant, and anchored in promise.
In your view are you married to Christ yet or are you still waiting?
 

IndianaRob

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Paul doesn't agree with you. Do you partake in Communion?
1 Cor 11:26--For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.
I can’t make an argument against that because I’m reasonably sure that you don’t believe Jesus comes for a believer to take him home when it’s time to leave this world and go to the next. So I have no argument for you.
 

PS95

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I can’t make an argument against that because I’m reasonably sure that you don’t believe Jesus comes for a believer to take him home when it’s time to leave this world and go to the next. So I have no argument for you.
huh? makes no sense. If you don't want to answer my question- fine.
 
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