BEWARE OF THE SPIRITUALIZERS HERE
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During our Lord’s earthly ministry He made a very significant statement about the heavenly abode, which many modern-day eschatology students tend to overlook. Jesus said, in John 14:1-3, “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
Something we should establish here due to the array of false teaching floating around on the subject: whilst this eternal abode Christ is currently preparing for His people is now in heaven there is no proof in this text that this city will remain in heaven after His coming. Jesus simply promises: “I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
Where Christ is at His appearing is where the heavenly city with its many mansions will be. This closely connects Christ to the holy city. One could take from this statement that the New Jerusalem will appear with Christ. It would be wise to see whether there is other Scripture to support or negate such a hypothesis.
Christ here directly addresses the undoubted concern of His disciples just prior to His heavenly removal. He clearly intended to convey a real sense of hope and comfort to His troubled disciples, in this reading, who were evidently concerned at the thought of the His impending departure. In doing so, He advanced some precious Divine truths, which are deserving of our careful consideration and note, none more so than the fact that He was assuredly returning for His saints. He plainly and succinctly declares, “if I go…I will come again.” This is the great assurance for every believer, that, yet, for a short season he is faced with earthly trials, tribulations and separation, it is but nothing in comparison to that place and condition which awaits God’s heavenly people.
Can we stick with the verse that you blew off from the beginning when you started talking about heavenly Jerusalem which has nothing to do with this verse? Focus on this instead of running from it.
Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
If need be, I can post the grammatical reason that it is IMPOSSIBLE grammatically to mean an event 2000 years in the future.
I’m assuming you do consider the rules of grammar when you read something.
I remember coming across someone who believed the rapture already happened around 70 A.D. They believe the true church was already taken up to be with the Lord and that there was no true church left presently.
I don't believe this but I found it to be sad that he subscribed to this belief because of his discouragement with American Christianity.
Of course it is to do with "heavenly Jerusalem." That is the place that He is preparing for His people now.
Hebrews 11:8-10 describes how our great father of the faith, the Patriarch, Abraham looked for that great heavenly city, saying, “By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.”
It would seem right to regard God's future inheritance for Israel as relating to the heavenly abode and the prepared city the New Jerusalem. The Patriarch’s earthly abode in Canaan is depicted here as a temporary sojourn and “a strange country.” This was not Abraham’s eternal abode or was it his true home. Like us, he looked for the New Jerusalem that would last forever. Man’s ultimate hope (whether Old Testament or New Testament) is when Jerusalem from above comes down to the earth to dwell forever.
Hebrews 11:13-16 says, specifically speaking of the great Old Testament champions of faith, “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
Here, in easily comprehensible language, we see the focus and overriding desire of these Old Testament heroes of the faith (nearly all of whom had accessed the old Jerusalem in their lifetime) revealed. They plainly desired a “prepared” heavenly city.
The Old Testament saints, like those in the New Testament, looked forth to a “prepared” eternal heavenly city, not a physical temporal earthly one. Their eyes were therefore not below but above. Scripture plainly tells us that that “place” is called the New Jerusalem – the eternal home of the beloved. The Premillennialist that looks for old Jerusalem at the second coming is evidently focused upon the wrong city.
That “place,” which Christ is preparing us, and for which His people are patiently waiting, is identified as an actual city in Hebrews 13:14. Notwithstanding, it is not a physical temporal earthly city sitting in the center of natural Israel, but rather a heavenly eternal city. The passage says, “for here (that is on this earth) have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.” That city is the New Jerusalem, which Christ is presently preparing. Earthly Jerusalem is clearly with us now, whereas the New Jerusalem in all its glory is still to come!!!
During our Lord’s earthly ministry He made a very significant statement about the heavenly abode, which many modern-day eschatology students tend to overlook. Jesus said, in John 14:1-3, “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
What is that place that Jesus is preparing? It is the new Jerusalem. The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven when Jesus comes. It is going to be located on the new earth.
Proof that the prepared New Jerusalem is coming down to the new earth is found in Revelation 21:1-4. It declares, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”
This city is the only “prepared place” alluded to in the whole of the New Testament. This city, which appears with Christ at His coming, is undoubtedly a heavenly “place” and is the single focus of every true saint of God – the place of eternal peace and rest from sin, the effects of sin (including death), and all sinners forever.
What is all this for? Why do you have to write a book and say absolutely nothing to prove the point you’re trying to make?
I couldn’t figure out what you were trying to prove so I pasted your post in Chatgpt to see if it could figure out what your trying to prove.
Based strictly on the text you gave, here’s what he’s trying to prove:
He is arguing that the ultimate hope of God’s people—both Old and New Testament believers—is the heavenly New Jerusalem, not earthly Jerusalem.
Key points he uses to support this:
- Abraham and the Old Testament saints looked forward to a “city… whose builder and maker is God” — their earthly dwellings were temporary.
- Hebrews 11:13–16 shows they considered themselves strangers on earth, desiring a “better country, that is, heavenly.”
- Jesus promises He is preparing a place for believers (John 14:1–3), which the writer identifies as the New Jerusalem.
- Revelation 21:1–4 depicts the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven to the new earth at Christ’s return.
- Therefore, any focus on restoring or expecting earthly Jerusalem at Christ’s second coming (as some Premillennialists do) is mistaken.
In short:
He’s trying to prove that God’s eternal city is heavenly, not earthly, and it will only come at Christ’s return.
I then asked if you proved John 14:3 was the second coming of Christ and it said:
Strictly speaking, no — he did not prove that grammatically or textually.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Bob, you are trying to define heavenly events in time-based, worldly terms. None of this works that way.
We all come when born out of God's eternity...and the clocks of time begin to tick--but only in this world--not in heaven. Likewise, we all live in this world according to times--as Paul eluded to, saying "but each one in his own order"--meaning, we also leave this world each in our own time--when the clock stops ticking.
But consider all of this from the eternal, heavenly side: No clocks are ticking--just people leaving and entering eternity--without a second passing. In other words--yes, it's not that way in the world--but in heaven, in God's timeless terms and reality--we ALL exit and return...in the twinkling of an eye. Those are the terms.
As for Christ returning...that is how it works also--but since Pentecost, since He went to the Father and arranged it--it works, like He said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."--"but each one in his own order." Paul referred--eluded to--this, saying, "we who are alive and remain" as a new and unheard of thing where one enters the kingdom of heaven--passes from death to life--while still seemingly alive in the flesh and remaining in the world until the flesh passes.
This is what is written--if all scripture is included and believed.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Bob...AI has no Godly authority or ability to be the judge of men.
I already knew this but to get an unbiased second opinion I asked Chargpt the following:
Prompt: The writer responded with this - More jibberish from a Kabbalist. More avoidance from a Kabbalist.
Chatgpt response:
So basically he dismissed your response without addressing the content. By calling it “jibberish from a Kabbalist” he’s:
- Dodging the argument – instead of showing why your point about John 14:3 is wrong, he labels it “Kabbalist” to avoid engaging with it.
- Using ad hominem – attacking you (or the style of your reasoning) rather than proving his position.
- Projection – he accused you of “avoidance,” but in reality he avoided proving his own case from the grammar of the verse.
Did the AI get this right?
His answer is more of a philosophical dodge than an actual response to your point. Let me break down what he’s trying to say:
- He’s shifting the frame to “God’s eternity” vs. human time.
He’s basically saying: in heaven there are no clocks, no years, no sequence like we experience on earth. So when Jesus speaks about “coming again” or “receiving” people, it’s not in a strict linear, 2,000-years-later sense. - He’s saying people enter eternity instantly when they die.
His idea is that the disciples (and everyone else) don’t experience a long wait. From heaven’s perspective, they “depart and arrive” instantly — in the “twinkling of an eye.” - He ties Christ’s return to an individual, spiritual sense.
He’s not really talking about a visible Second Coming to earth at the end of history. Instead, he’s saying Jesus “comes again” to each believer individually — either when they die, or when they accept Him (using Revelation 3:20 about “I stand at the door and knock”). - He appeals to Paul’s “each in his own order” (1 Cor 15:23).
He uses that phrase to say resurrection/entry into eternal life doesn’t all happen at once at the end, but individually when each person dies or believes.
So in plain English, what he’s arguing is:
- Heaven is outside time.
- The disciples didn’t have to “wait 2,000 years” — they were instantly with Christ.
- Jesus’ “coming again” isn’t just one big event at the end; it happens to each person when they die (or when they receive Him in faith).
Basically, he spiritualized the whole thing and avoided your challenge about the disciples already being in heaven when Jesus “comes again.”
I use AI to analyze grammar and analyze the intent of responses given to me as a second opinion. Peoples own words judge men, not me and not AI.
Just like what Communists do, of course they DENY the REAL TRUTH and paint instead with a fake feel-sorry-for-me brush. One of my great-grandfathers was an Inquisitor in France, and the problem was much more involved than persecuting little children and the elderly.
We are living in a time today when Satan and his servants here on earth have run amuck, their well knowing their time is short. Thus it seems that the number of false Bible interpretations have increased, while the ones to really watch out for involve wrongly supporting Satan's coming one-world beast kingdom over the whole earth at the end of this present world.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Scripture never teaches that Jesus comes for you at your death, so you don't have scripture on your side here. If our souls and spirits are escorted by someone to heaven, rather than being supernaturally transported to heaven, upon our deaths, then that would likely be done by angels since angels are the ones who will gather the elect bodily at His future second coming (Matt 24:30-31, Mark 13:26-27). So, there is really no basis for thinking that 1 Corinthians 11:26 refers to anything besides His future second coming.
Also, 1 Corinthians 11:26 doesn't even refer to our deaths, it refers to the Lord's death that His people will proclaim until He comes....in the future. You are blinded by your full preterist beliefs.
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