Bible Prophecy WILL be Fulfilled

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David in NJ

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God will be saving souls before and during the Tribulation.

God will be saving souls right up to His Second Coming.

WARNING --- ALERT --- WARNING

And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
 

David in NJ

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God will be saving souls right up until the last soul is cast into the LOF. After that the door is shut on the LOF as far as we know.
Personnally, i know it is much more Trustworthy to believe JESUS at His word.

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death. - Rev ch2

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them
, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
 

quietthinker

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Personnally, i know it is much more Trustworthy to believe JESUS at His word.

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death. - Rev ch2

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them
, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
what do you think it means to 'overcome'?
 

Timtofly

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Personnally, i know it is much more Trustworthy to believe JESUS at His word.

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death. - Rev ch2

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them
, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
That is what I posted, at the GWT event.
 

David in NJ

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Let me ask the question another way; what is it we are to overcome?
The Final Temptation/Testing of your faith.

Revelation 14:9-13
And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
 
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quietthinker

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The Final Temptation/Testing of your faith.

Revelation 14:9-13
And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
My trust in Jesus and his ability to save to the uttermost is my hope.....because he promised.
My feelings and the thoughts that surface often want to doubt this but I have learned he is faithful and true in spite of myself....and this I trust.
 
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David in NJ

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My trust in Jesus and his ability to save to the uttermost is my hope.....because he promised.
My feelings and the thoughts that surface often want to doubt this but I have learned he is faithful and true in spite of myself....and this I trust.
Great encouraging words - Thank You

"Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ"
philippians ch1
 

Taken

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This Bible verse does not, in any way; say that the Lord will take people up to heaven in order for them to 'escape' the trials and testing to come. That idea is a false teaching and can never happen. We must stand firm in our faith THROUGH all that will take place.
1 Thes 3:
[13] To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

How does the Lord Jesus Christ COME TO EARTH WITH ALL His saints IF THEY ARE ON Earth?
 

quietthinker

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1 Thes 3:
[13] To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

How does the Lord Jesus Christ COME TO EARTH WITH ALL His saints IF THEY ARE ON Earth?
It depends how you hear it..... He will establish your heart with all his saints.....or does 'saints' mean, his angels? ....because those who have died are not in heaven but awaiting a resurrection.....they sleep in the dust of the earth till the call is given.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
'For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.'
 

Taken

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It depends how you hear it..... He will establish your heart with all his saints.....or does 'saints' mean, his angels? ....because those who have died are not in heaven but awaiting a resurrection.....they sleep in the dust of the earth till the call is given.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
'For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.'
It depends how you hear it..... He will establish your heart with all his saints.....or does 'saints' mean, his angels? ....because those who have died are not in heaven but awaiting a resurrection.....they sleep in the dust of the earth till the call is given.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
'For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.'

Catholics ascribe the term “saint” to archangels …I do not. I do not find in Scripture that angels are ever referenced as “saints” or that Men are to pray FOR angels, but rather that men who ARE saints are to pray FOR fellow “saints”…saints; being the Converted IN Christ.
 
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Taken

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Let me ask the question another way; what is it we are to overcome?
Being in the position of vulnerability to deceptive trickery.

An unbelieving man, a believing man is reliant on his own Willpower and Knowledge to Not fall into Trickery and Temptations of powerful Evil spirits AND oppressive, forcing, threatening, Wicked Powerful men…

A man IN CHRIST (Converted), HAS the Most Supreme Power (ie. The Holy Spirt) IN Him, which KEEPS that individual FROM EVER being Tricked or Fooled Into Falling Away (ie. Going Against their belief IN the Lord God.)

They; BY the Power of the Holy Spirit IN THEM…Have OVERCOME the evils and wickedness OF this world.
 

David in NJ

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1 Thes 3:
[13] To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

How does the Lord Jesus Christ COME TO EARTH WITH ALL His saints IF THEY ARE ON Earth?
He is bringing the souls/spirits of the Saints from Heaven.
There are no bodily resurrected Saints in Heaven/Revelation.
The Resurrection only takes place at His Coming.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus
those who have fallen asleep/died in Him.


By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
 

Taken

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He is bringing the souls/spirits of the Saints from Heaven.

Yes.
There are no bodily resurrected Saints in Heaven/Revelation.

There are Heaven-“S”
High Heaven…Where no light escapes, I would liken to Gods Estate.
Mid Heaven…Estate of Holy Angels.
…we get a pretty good view of in the night sky…/ stars/ planets.
Lower Heaven…sky, clouds.
…we can experience seeing, climbing mountain tops, flying in airplanes.


The Resurrection only takes place at His Coming.

Resurrections have taken place for centuries.
Every time a mortal body ceases living its living soul departs its body.
If the living soul returns to its body, before the blood (life OF the body rots, or is drained from the body), the body will Resume living its mortal life.

Scripture gives several examples.
Men even today give testimony of being “clinically” pronounced dead (no heart beat, indicative of blood not flowing)…and testify of what their departed soul experienced.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesusthose who have fallen asleep/died in Him.

Read clearly…
That is speaking of those WHO believe:
Jesus died and was risen back up to Life
AND…
They are called: IN Jesus
AND…
God will raise them UP…in the LAST days.
AND…
If you study further…
There is a Caveat…IF they believed that on the Day of their bodily death, They Shall be saved.
AND…
That Raising UP is their dead body being raised up from their earthly Grave…in a changed body, receiving Back their saved soul, their quickened spirit, to a changed New Earth…
AND …
That shall occur AFTER the millennial reign.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
This pertains to the DEAD and ALIVE …IN Christ…per the Order and Way, of THEY, while alive in their flesh BODY confessed to The Lord God; They believe Jesus IS the Christ the Son of the Living God…
They ARE (soul) saved at that moment. And Quickened (spirit born again) at that moment and their Body already account Dead For their Love of God. Baptism of the Holy Spirit, makes that man, Accounted WHOLE, once and forever….BEFORE bodily Death (rather having been spiritually crucified with Christ) AND it is the Lord who raises up that man, Above the Face of the Earth, Before the Lambs Wrath commences upon the Earth.


You are identifying TWO separate teachings then meshing those TWO separate teachings of
Who, What, When, Where, Why
as ONE same teaching.

Belief OF JESUS is one thing.
Belief without Confession is one thing.
Being IN Jesus is one thing.
Hope to Remain IN Jesus is one thing.
Shall be Saved is one thing.
Raised BY God is one thing.
Holy Spirit Baptism on resurrection day of Dead Body is one thing.
Raised to Where is one thing.
Raised When, Why is one thing.
Can fall away is one thing, Before mortal death is one thing.
Can be divided or separated FROM the Lord God.
MAYBE / MAYBE Not Not Shall Be Saved…hangs On individual's choices.

Belief OF CHRIST Jesus is another thing.
Confessed Belief is another thing.
Being IN CHRIST Jesus is another thing.
Assurance TO Remain IN CHRIST Jesus is another thing.
IS Saved is another thing.
Holy Spirit Baptism BEFORE Bodily Death IS another thing.
Raised BY the Lord is another thing.
Raised to Where is another thing.
Can NEVER be divided or separated From the Lord God.
Returns to Earth With the Individual’s Lord, God, Spirit, whom the individuals Have Been Transformed LIKE their Lord God, (body, soul, spirit) (called SAINTS) and can SEE their Lord God AS HE IS (body, soul, spirit)…who Returns AS the Son of Man, which Mortals ON Earth CAN SEE the Body of Jesus, as God prepared, in the LIKENESS AS a man…For Mortals TO SEE.

When the Son of Man returns…Mortal men ON Earth WILL NOT SEE, Jesus, as He IS…(Spirit/Christ)
Mortal men ON Earth WILL NOT SEE, Transformed Spirit Baptized men, AS THEY ARE (body, soul, spirit, transformed new creatures)…When They IN CHRIST (Saints), return to Earth WITH the Son of Man, IN HIS Glory (body, soul, spirit)…

In Jesus…In Christ Jesus are two Different things.

In the End of Days…Every Individual Mortal man…is addressed According to Exactaly what they Believe….According TO Gods Order and Way.

And By An individual LISTENING to the Words spoken by other men and the Doings/acts of other men…an other mans Path (and Remaing on their path)….their Final outcome /with or without/ the Lord God Almighty Becomes Apparent….less they make other choices, before their Mortal Death.

Once a mortal man is IN Jesus…he IS ON a path Favorable to the Lord God….but, but, but CAN fall Away (and many scriptures WARN of such possibility AND how and why that IS a possibility.

Once a mortal man is IN Christ Jesus…he is ON a path Secure IN The Lord God and Gods Spirit (Supreme Power IN that man ) assures that man can NEVER fall away from the Lord God Almighty.

Can fall Away….Can never Fall Away….Huge Difference.
Before the End of Days….Those who can Never fall Away are Separated From the Face of the Earth….risen UP from the face of the Earth…to the Clouds…unseen by mortal men ON Earth.
First those bodily dead in their grave…immediately there after those bodily alive in their flesh.

During 14 express phases of destructions (7 Seals 7 Trumps) and 3 Woes ON Earth, Mortal men ON Earth will be experiencing and many Bodily dying during Each phase, that Shall Begin Gods INTENT to END ‘Mortality’….
Some will Bodily Die, having chosen then to Be With God…Many Will Bodily Die, having chosen to be Without God…

Those choosing With….God shall raise them bodily after the millennial Reign of CHRIST JESUS.

Context, applicability, order and way According to God.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Taken

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Gen 2:
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Indicative of LayerS of Sorts, regarding Heaven.

2 Cor 12:
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Knowledge revealed of A Third Heaven, indicative of a (layer) of A First, and of a Second Heaven.

Acts 7:
[29] Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.
[30] And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
[31] When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
[32] Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abrham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.
[33] Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.

A man ON the ground…high UP IN the Clouds IS TWO Fold….ON holy Ground, IN a Cloud Space of Holy (lower) Heavens.

Another example PER Noah…(during the First Great Tribulation God Sent down from Heaven UPON the Earth (which the Earth IS DRY Land /Ground)…

Eight (Noah, family) IN the Ark, (water destroying the Dry Earth, becoming no longer Dry)… the Ark …

The Ark approx. 540 Feet High.
The Ark approx. raised Up off the Earth 25 Feet Above the Mountain Tops….
We can observe or take a wild guess or understand according To the Spirit of God….
Noah was risen up to IN the Clouds (lower Heaven)…while and As the Earth (dry land) was being Destroyed with Water.

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
[21] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

And later Noah and family Returned to a Cleansed Earth.

Nothing new Under the Sun.
Ecc 1:9

What was before Shall be again.
Faithful men Raised Up above the Earth TO the Clouds, while the Earth and its inhabitants are Destroyed and A NEW Earth established for the Faithful to Occupy.
They are called….
IN CHRIST, CHRISTS Church.
 

David in NJ

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Yes.


There are Heaven-“S”
High Heaven…Where no light escapes, I would liken to Gods Estate.
Mid Heaven…Estate of Holy Angels.
…we get a pretty good view of in the night sky…/ stars/ planets.
Lower Heaven…sky, clouds.
…we can experience seeing, climbing mountain tops, flying in airplanes.




Resurrections have taken place for centuries.
Every time a mortal body ceases living its living soul departs its body.
If the living soul returns to its body, before the blood (life OF the body rots, or is drained from the body), the body will Resume living its mortal life.

Scripture gives several examples.
Men even today give testimony of being “clinically” pronounced dead (no heart beat, indicative of blood not flowing)…and testify of what their departed soul experienced.



Read clearly…
That is speaking of those WHO believe:
Jesus died and was risen back up to Life
AND…
They are called: IN Jesus
AND…
God will raise them UP…in the LAST days.
AND…
If you study further…
There is a Caveat…IF they believed that on the Day of their bodily death, They Shall be saved.
AND…
That Raising UP is their dead body being raised up from their earthly Grave…in a changed body, receiving Back their saved soul, their quickened spirit, to a changed New Earth…
AND …
That shall occur AFTER the millennial reign.

This pertains to the DEAD and ALIVE …IN Christ…per the Order and Way, of THEY, while alive in their flesh BODY confessed to The Lord God; They believe Jesus IS the Christ the Son of the Living God…
They ARE (soul) saved at that moment. And Quickened (spirit born again) at that moment and their Body already account Dead For their Love of God. Baptism of the Holy Spirit, makes that man, Accounted WHOLE, once and forever….BEFORE bodily Death (rather having been spiritually crucified with Christ) AND it is the Lord who raises up that man, Above the Face of the Earth, Before the Lambs Wrath commences upon the Earth.


You are identifying TWO separate teachings then meshing those TWO separate teachings of
Who, What, When, Where, Why
as ONE same teaching.

Belief OF JESUS is one thing.
Belief without Confession is one thing.
Being IN Jesus is one thing.
Hope to Remain IN Jesus is one thing.
Shall be Saved is one thing.
Raised BY God is one thing.
Holy Spirit Baptism on resurrection day of Dead Body is one thing.
Raised to Where is one thing.
Raised When, Why is one thing.
Can fall away is one thing, Before mortal death is one thing.
Can be divided or separated FROM the Lord God.
MAYBE / MAYBE Not Not Shall Be Saved…hangs On individual's choices.

Belief OF CHRIST Jesus is another thing.
Confessed Belief is another thing.
Being IN CHRIST Jesus is another thing.
Assurance TO Remain IN CHRIST Jesus is another thing.
IS Saved is another thing.
Holy Spirit Baptism BEFORE Bodily Death IS another thing.
Raised BY the Lord is another thing.
Raised to Where is another thing.
Can NEVER be divided or separated From the Lord God.
Returns to Earth With the Individual’s Lord, God, Spirit, whom the individuals Have Been Transformed LIKE their Lord God, (body, soul, spirit) (called SAINTS) and can SEE their Lord God AS HE IS (body, soul, spirit)…who Returns AS the Son of Man, which Mortals ON Earth CAN SEE the Body of Jesus, as God prepared, in the LIKENESS AS a man…For Mortals TO SEE.

When the Son of Man returns…Mortal men ON Earth WILL NOT SEE, Jesus, as He IS…(Spirit/Christ)
Mortal men ON Earth WILL NOT SEE, Transformed Spirit Baptized men, AS THEY ARE (body, soul, spirit, transformed new creatures)…When They IN CHRIST (Saints), return to Earth WITH the Son of Man, IN HIS Glory (body, soul, spirit)…

In Jesus…In Christ Jesus are two Different things.

In the End of Days…Every Individual Mortal man…is addressed According to Exactaly what they Believe….According TO Gods Order and Way.

And By An individual LISTENING to the Words spoken by other men and the Doings/acts of other men…an other mans Path (and Remaing on their path)….their Final outcome /with or without/ the Lord God Almighty Becomes Apparent….less they make other choices, before their Mortal Death.

Once a mortal man is IN Jesus…he IS ON a path Favorable to the Lord God….but, but, but CAN fall Away (and many scriptures WARN of such possibility AND how and why that IS a possibility.

Once a mortal man is IN Christ Jesus…he is ON a path Secure IN The Lord God and Gods Spirit (Supreme Power IN that man ) assures that man can NEVER fall away from the Lord God Almighty.

Can fall Away….Can never Fall Away….Huge Difference.
Before the End of Days….Those who can Never fall Away are Separated From the Face of the Earth….risen UP from the face of the Earth…to the Clouds…unseen by mortal men ON Earth.
First those bodily dead in their grave…immediately there after those bodily alive in their flesh.

During 14 express phases of destructions (7 Seals 7 Trumps) and 3 Woes ON Earth, Mortal men ON Earth will be experiencing and many Bodily dying during Each phase, that Shall Begin Gods INTENT to END ‘Mortality’….
Some will Bodily Die, having chosen then to Be With God…Many Will Bodily Die, having chosen to be Without God…

Those choosing With….God shall raise them bodily after the millennial Reign of CHRIST JESUS.

Context, applicability, order and way According to God.

God Bless,
Taken
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is same event as 1 Cor ch15 same as Revelation 20:4-6

The First Resurrection is ALL the Saints = Believers in Jesus = which occurs at His Second Coming

Only at this Resurrection do the Saints receive their Immortal Glorified Bodies = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3 = 1 Thess 4:13-18

the Rapture only occurs after the Resurrrection at His Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 & 2 Thess ch2 and Matt ch24

Peace my Brother
 

Taken

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1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is same event as 1 Cor ch15 same as Revelation 20:4-6

The First Resurrection is ALL the Saints = Believers in Jesus = which occurs at His Second Coming

Only at this Resurrection do the Saints receive their Immortal Glorified Bodies = 1 Cor ch15 = 1 John 3:1-3 = 1 Thess 4:13-18

the Rapture only occurs after the Resurrrection at His Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 & 2 Thess ch2 and Matt ch24

Peace my Brother
We differ in understanding as to what applies to whom when and why.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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