Bible Study Methods

[DoveSpirit05]

Did u know dat
proverbs is writern in 3 patterns, verses dat start with "and" in 2nd verse
are (synonymous parallels) - pride goes b4 destruction "and" a haughty spirit......
same thing different expression. verses dat start with "but" in 2nd verse are

(antiseptic parallels) - he who oppresses the poor shoes contempt 4 their maker "but"
who ever shows kindness...... is an antifascist, 2 opposites.

verses dat start with "for" in 2nd verse are

(synthetic parallels), 2nd verse is a
continuation, advancement. stay away from a foolish man "for" u will not find
knowledge......... gives a reason for previous verse.

 

[Jay Ross]

as iv posted in other threads,
I look at 1st in the bible weather the different styles of text are, historical narrative, commandments, poems psalms etc. I also look at the historical context, I look at both Hebrew and greek translations. I look at text commentary's and cross references, I look at wat other members of the body are saying, pastors, preachers. I then use induction, then logic given 2 me by God, then I listern 2 wat the holy spirit is saying!! then I come 2 my conclusion!!

Perhaps you may like to put your method to the test. How long did Jacob spend in Haran working for Laban? Then back up your conclusions.

Shalom

 

[Jay Ross]

@David Taylor

You seem to like to show how learned you are in your calling out of @John Caldwell in other threads. Perhaps you may like to tell us all, from your wonderful understanding of scripture, how old Joseph was when his brothers went down to Egypt to get grain as recounted in the story as told in Genesis 42. This is a simple question to provide some clarity on what we thing that Joseph's age was when his brothers arrived in Egypt to get grain through your skills of interpretation.

Now I did make a similar request of @John Caldwell to provide his understanding on Genesis 12:1 but he opted to provide his thoughts on Genesis 2:17 instead and the responses can be viewed above if you are interested.

I am not looking for you to comment on his responses and the subsequent posts after his reply, but I am looking for your thoughts on the above question.

Shalom

 

[reformed1689]

@David Taylor

You seem to like to show how learned you are in your calling out of @John Caldwell in other threads. Perhaps you may like to tell us all, from your wonderful understanding of scripture, how old Joseph was when his brothers went down to Egypt to get grain as recounted in the story as told in Genesis 42. This is a simple question to provide some clarity on what we thing that Joseph's age was when his brothers arrived in Egypt to get grain through your skills of interpretation.

Now I did make a similar request of @John Caldwell to provide his understanding on Genesis 12:1 but he opted to provide his thoughts on Genesis 2:17 instead and the responses can be viewed above if you are interested.

I am not looking for you to comment on his responses and the subsequent posts after his reply, but I am looking for your thoughts on the above question.

Shalom

Not sure how this is relevant to anything but here we go.

We see in chapter 41 that Joseph was 30 years old when he entered Pharaoh's service after interpreting the dream. Now, if the years of plenty started immediately, we know that there were seven. That means at the end of the seven years Joseph would be 37. Now, it does not say when during the famine, unless I have missed it, that Joseph's brothers came to Egypt. So Joseph, by my count, was at least 37 and not older than 44.

 

[Jay Ross]

Not sure how this is relevant to anything but here we go.

We see in chapter 41 that Joseph was 30 years old when he entered Pharaoh's service after interpreting the dream. Now, if the years of plenty started immediately, we know that there were seven. That means at the end of the seven years Joseph would be 37. Now, it does not say when during the famine, unless I have missed it, that Joseph's brothers came to Egypt. So Joseph, by my count, was at least 37 and not older than 44.

Thank you David for your response, but your understanding of scripture is lacking. You really need to do more reading around the topic of when Jacob's 10 sons went down to Egypt at the end of the first year of famine.

The answer can be found in the scriptures a chapter or two or three before chapter 41 and not in Chapter 41 or 42 as you have done.

If I was accessing your response to my question in an examine situation, you would have got a big fat zero for your efforts.

Perhaps you may like a second shot at answering the question.

Let us see if you can do it on your second attempt. Joseph's age when his brothers go down to Egypt can be easily discerned from the scriptures to within a couple of years, but only if you are prepared to read and understanding what is in the scriptures.

Shalom

 

[Stranger]

How to study the Bible is actually a pretty important matter. Everyone is affected by the Bible preaching or teaching they have grown up with. A Bible teacher not only teaches the Bible, but he also, whether he knows it or not, is teaching a method of Bible study. His method is understood by those he is teaching and received.

1.) The literal verses the spiritual approach is usually so ingrained in the believer that seldom do they ever leave the one they have grown up in. And these are very general terms as those who approach the Bible literally interpret many passages as symbols or metaphors etc. etc. And the same is true with those who interpret spiritually or allegorically. They believe many things literally in the Bible. The difference usually is what we are determining as literal or spiritual. In other words, because one interprets literally doesn't mean he doesn't interpret spiritually at times. And the one who interprets spiritually doesn't mean he doesn't interpret literal at times. My point here is this: whatever camp you are in, literal or spiritual, be willing to look at the subject and how it is presented in the Bible, and determine if this should be interpreted literally or spiritually. Why or why not?

2.) To a new believer or one who is new to Bible study, I would start with Bible introduction. Get a commentary on the introduction of the Old Testament or introduction to the New Testament. It should provide information on each book and give it's overall theme and an outline of the book to follow. Have a study Bible with you that you are willing to write and underline in. And write all in your commentary concerning things you deem important. Have a spiral notebook that you are using to take notes in as you study your commentary. Write down your own opinions and thoughts concerning what the Bible says and what the commentary says. You may not agree with the commentator. That's fine. Keep your spiral notebooks as you will use them over and over again. Truths learned are added to, but not changed.

3.) Once one has gone through both the Old and New Testaments in an introduction way, then they can move to either a topical method of Bible study or a book by book method. Topical involves systematic study of theology. Of God, of Christ, of salvation, of last things, etc. etc. Or just subjects such as baptism, or the kingdom. Book by book is exactly as it says. Choose a book of the Bible to study verse by verse, skipping nothing. Everything said in #(2) above as to how to study, should be observed with topical and book by book also. Don't worry about making mistakes or being wrong in something you write down. We are learning.

4.) When one sets themselves to do serious Bible study, I can assure you the Holy Spirit will open up many truths to you.

Stranger

 

[reformed1689]

Thank you David for your response, but your understanding of scripture is lacking. You really need to do more reading around the topic of when Jacob's 10 sons went down to Egypt at the end of the first year of famine.

The answer can be found in the scriptures a chapter or two or three before chapter 41 and not in Chapter 41 or 42 as you have done.

If I was accessing your response to my question in an examine situation, you would have got a big fat zero for your efforts.

Perhaps you may like a second shot at answering the question.

Let us see if you can do it on your second attempt. Joseph's age when his brothers go down to Egypt can be easily discerned from the scriptures to within a couple of years, but only if you are prepared to read and understanding what is in the scriptures.

Shalom

Then please enlighten me. Are you saying it is NOT between 37 and 44?

 

[Jay Ross]

Then please enlighten me. Are you saying it is NOT between 37 and 44?

If you cannot read and understand what is plainly stated in my post as to where you might find the answer to my question, then I can understand why you are having problems in answering my simple question.

Your answer was based on assumptions and not on the facts as presented in the scriptures. As a matter of interest, the solution, in determining Joseph's approximate age, is also presented in a chapter a couple or so past where you based your assumptions from. The bible is actually silent on the age of Joseph when his brothers meet him again after selling him into slavery back in Canaan and they did not know of his circumstances or what had happened to him after he was taken away in the caravan of camels.

This may seem to be a trivial question to you, but, it does demonstrate the shortcomings in your understanding of scripture. If you have shortcomings on this simple question, then the question I must ask of myself is whether or not there are also shortcomings in any other areas in your understanding of scripture and whether or not your expressed opinions are helpful if read.

Now I assume that you are giving up on the reading of the scriptures to solve this simple question and want someone else to provide the answer for you.

Shalom

 

[Willie T]

He was 39, BTW.

 

[reformed1689]

If you cannot read and understand what is plainly stated in my post as to where you might find the answer to my question, then I can understand why you are having problems in answering my simple question.

Your answer was based on assumptions and not on the facts as presented in the scriptures. As a matter of interest, the solution, in determining Joseph's approximate age, is also presented in a chapter a couple or so past where you based your assumptions from. The bible is actually silent on the age of Joseph when his brothers meet him again after selling him into slavery back in Canaan and they did not know of his circumstances or what had happened to him after he was taken away in the caravan of camels.

This may seem to be a trivial question to you, but, it does demonstrate the shortcomings in your understanding of scripture. If you have shortcomings on this simple question, then the question I must ask of myself is whether or not there are also shortcomings in any other areas in your understanding of scripture and whether or not your expressed opinions are helpful if read.

Now I assume that you are giving up on the reading of the scriptures to solve this simple question and want someone else to provide the answer for you.

Shalom

He was 39, BTW.

This is based on certain assumptions with the overall timeline though.

 

[Willie T]

This is based on certain assumptions with the overall timeline though.

Well, I don't want to just hand it to you without you doing any study, but part of the answer lies with Genesis 47:8 and 9. (Now, you'll have to find the "91" for yourself.) Or, are you going with 74?

The 17 year difference kind of gets you into the area of when his dreams began....

 

[reformed1689]

Well, I don't want to just hand it to you without you doing any study, but part of the answer lies with Genesis 47:8 and 9. (Now, you'll have to find the "91" for yourself.)

I don't see how those get you Joseph being 39 exactly. You still have to make assumptions with the timeline unless I am missing something.

 

[Willie T]

When you consider how much varience there is in so many of the specific dates in the Bible, all of the calculations could be wrong.
So, who really cares? I mean, no one can even agree on when Jesus was born.

 

[reformed1689]

When you consider how much varience there is in so many of the specific dates in the Bible, all of the calculations could be wrong.
So, who really cares? I mean, no one can even agree on when Jesus was born.

Ok just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something since another person on this thread essentially tried to make me feel stupid for not giving a specific age.

 

[John Caldwell]

When you consider how much varience there is in so many of the specific dates in the Bible, all of the calculations could be wrong.
So, who really cares? I mean, no one can even agree on when Jesus was born.

I get 39 (I think as the most popular view working off Jacob's age). It would be 54 if Joseph was born to Jacob at 74 instead of 91.

It seems 39 and 54 are the best choices as the Hebrew language is not our language.

 

[Jay Ross]

Then please enlighten me. Are you saying it is NOT between 37 and 44?

Yes I am.

Ok just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something since another person on this thread essentially tried to make me feel stupid for not giving a specific age.

No David, I was not making you look silly for not giving a specific age, I gave you a big fat zero because you had not done enough research to actually answer the question from the scriptures. You went looking for the easy answer, and many other commentators have also done the same thing as you did. You probably followed their bad logical conclusion as well and did not verify whether or not they had the right answer to this question.

This is based on certain assumptions with the overall timeline though.

Your above quote indicates that you are on the right track. You have to look at the timeline for all of the events mentioned in the scriptures around this time.

What many people do is to isolate the point of the study, in this case the age of Joseph when his brothers came down to Egypt, and only look at the story of the person of interest, and ignore the rest of the intertwining storyline of the other players in the scriptures and their lives and the events in their lives and how these intertwining timelines impact each other.

If you look at Genesis 46:8-27, you might get a clue as to where to look to establish what was the approximate age of Joseph might have been when his brothers went down to Egypt to ask him for grain for their needs after the first year of famine.

He was 39, BTW.

Not that it matters.... But.....
Why wouldn't his age be exact if the ages were recorded accurately in Scripture? (I get 39 as well... At least for the age Joseph would be when Jacob went to Egypt).

Willie T and John you are both making the same mistake as David, in that you have not researched the subject topic fully to come to a better conclusion.

From my construction of an OT timeline, over 10 years ago, I came to the conclusion that Joseph was somewhere around 50 - 60 years of age when his brothers visited him for grain.

I hope this will help you David and others to come to a better understanding of the Genesis story.

Shalom

PS: - David I would still like you to answer my question since I have given you clues as to how you can find a better answer.

 

[John Caldwell]

Yes I am.



No David, I was not making you look silly for not giving a specific age, I gave you a big fat zero because you had not done enough research to actually answer the question from the scriptures. You went looking for the easy answer, and many other commentators have also done the same thing as you did. You probably followed their bad logical conclusion as well and did not verify whether or not they had the right answer to this question.



Your above quote indicates that you are on the right track. You have to look at the timeline for all of the events mentioned in the scriptures around this time.

What many people do is to isolate the point of the study, in this case the age of Joseph when his brothers came down to Egypt, and only look at the story of the person of interest, and ignore the rest of the intertwining storyline of the other players in the scriptures and their lives and the events in their lives and how these intertwining timelines impact each other.

If you look at Genesis 46:8-27, you might get a clue as to where to look to establish what was the approximate age of Joseph might have been when his brothers went down to Egypt to ask him for grain for their needs after the first year of famine.

Willie T and John you are both making the same mistake as David, in that you have not researched the subject topic fully to come to a better conclusion.

From my construction of an OT timeline, over 10 years ago, I came to the conclusion that Joseph was somewhere around 50 - 60 years of age when his brothers visited him for grain.

I hope this will help you David and others to come to a better understanding of the Genesis story.

Shalom

PS: - David I would still like you to answer my question since I have given you clues as to how you can find a better answer.

Hey.... My alternate time line has Joseph at 54. That's closer. This view considers the Hebrew that Joseph was a son of 30 years to refer to the specific time when he was 17 and forward (thus 17 years older than 39).

But I favor the view that Joseph was literally 30 years old when he stood before Pharoah, plus 9 years (7 of plenty, 2 of shortage) you get 39.

 

[reformed1689]

Yes I am.



No David, I was not making you look silly for not giving a specific age, I gave you a big fat zero because you had not done enough research to actually answer the question from the scriptures. You went looking for the easy answer, and many other commentators have also done the same thing as you did. You probably followed their bad logical conclusion as well and did not verify whether or not they had the right answer to this question.



Your above quote indicates that you are on the right track. You have to look at the timeline for all of the events mentioned in the scriptures around this time.

What many people do is to isolate the point of the study, in this case the age of Joseph when his brothers came down to Egypt, and only look at the story of the person of interest, and ignore the rest of the intertwining storyline of the other players in the scriptures and their lives and the events in their lives and how these intertwining timelines impact each other.

If you look at Genesis 46:8-27, you might get a clue as to where to look to establish what was the approximate age of Joseph might have been when his brothers went down to Egypt to ask him for grain for their needs after the first year of famine.





Willie T and John you are both making the same mistake as David, in that you have not researched the subject topic fully to come to a better conclusion.

From my construction of an OT timeline, over 10 years ago, I came to the conclusion that Joseph was somewhere around 50 - 60 years of age when his brothers visited him for grain.

I hope this will help you David and others to come to a better understanding of the Genesis story.

Shalom

PS: - David I would still like you to answer my question since I have given you clues as to how you can find a better answer.

I have a hard time believing you get that from the biblical record. You are the one making that claim, without any sourcing I might add, you need to back it up. I have said from my first response on this topic that my age range is based on certain assumptions from the text.

 

[Jay Ross]

I have a hard time believing you get that from the biblical record. You are the one making that claim, without any sourcing I might add, you need to back it up. I have said from my first response on this topic that my age range is based on certain assumptions from the text.

David you have answered from what you believe you know, and not what you should know about the Genesis storyline, even if you consider it trivial.

As for not providing the actual source, I did indicate where it could be found in an above post where I wrote: -

The answer can be found in the scriptures a chapter or two or three before chapter 41 and not in Chapter 41 or 42 as you have done.

David start reading Genesis from chapter 37 verse 1 up to chapter 47 verse 12 and the information to answer my question, it might bite you on your bum, if you can find the right information from the above mentioned scriptures.

Have a go at actually reading the suggested passage, the answer is in the biblical record, but not where you might think to find it.

Shalom

 

[reformed1689]

David you have answered from what you believe you know, and not what you should know about the Genesis storyline, even if you consider it trivial.

As for not providing the actual source, I did indicate where it could be found in an above post where I wrote: -



David start reading Genesis from chapter 37 verse 1 up to chapter 47 verse 12 and the information to answer my question, it might bite you on your bum, if you can find the right information from the above mentioned scriptures.

Have a go at actually read the suggested passage, the answer is in the biblical record, but not where you might think to find it.

Shalom

Yeah, I will leave it to you to enlighten me. Quite frankly, I'm not that interested and don't have the time. I have better things to worry about.