Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Episkopos]

Where do I come into this...? I'm not talking about myself. This is a common tactic of yours, to twist things back onto those who are not agreeing with you. Such tactics do not proceed from the Holy Spirit, but from elsewhere.

Go back and read where you did exactly what you accuse me of. I asked legitimate questions to ProDeo...and you have to come after me as if you could be exposed if he answered the questions truthfully. I'm just looking for ANY honesty around here. All I get is religious posturing.

I would NEVER think Christianity to be anything but a hoax based on the poor attitude and lack of honesty in those who have the audacity to claim to be as righteous as God. I would steer FAR from such pretenders.

But because God chose me to serve Him I can see the counterfeit to the truth very well. It is the flesh looking for justification by ignoring the truth (hence the dishonesty) and ignoring all the conditions and warnings...so as to store up future judgment.

Paul was testifying that he considered he was still trying to win Christ and in process of entering the kingdom and running the race.....until death. I would say he was a saint if anyone was, wouldn't you? And he was telling us all to be of that same mind. So...there is something wrong with the way you understand and present these things.

We were not talking about Paul but about why people consider themselves to be saints...and what does that mean?

And if people hadn't read about being "born again" would they claim to be? What does anything mean unless there is some reality to it?

@Behold claims to be born again, so that he doesn't have to do anything or seek for anything. He is fully self-assured. And there is a spectrum to this kind of self-assurance...

 

[Lizbeth]

Go back and read where you did exactly what you accuse me of. I asked legitimate questions to ProDeo...and you have to come after me as if you could be exposed if he answered the questions truthfully. I'm just looking for ANY honesty around here. All I get is religious posturing.

I would NEVER think Christianity to be anything but a hoax based on the poor attitude and lack of honesty in those who have the audacity to claim to be as righteous as God. I would steer FAR from such pretenders.

But because God chose me to serve Him I can see the counterfeit to the truth very well. It is the flesh looking for justification by ignoring the truth (hence the dishonesty) and ignoring all the conditions and warnings...so as to store up future judgment.

We were not talking about Paul but about why people consider themselves to be saints...and what does that mean?

And if people hadn't read about being "born again" would they claim to be? What does anything mean unless there is some reality to it?

@Behold claims to be born again, so that he doesn't have to do anything or seek for anything. He is fully self-assured. And there is a spectrum to this kind of self-assurance...

Well, I think it is a matter of honesty to express and discuss honest points of contention and observation.

I don't call myself anything but a believer.....but God can call me anything He wants and ascribe to me anything he wants and I will gladly and gratefully receive it. It is not "me", that is to say, it's not my flesh and old man, who is righteous because in me, that is in my flesh, is no good thing, and I have come to know that very well. It is my new man that is righteous and that is no credit to me, but is an undeserved gift and all credit/glory belongs to He who created it.

No idea how it would be possible to "put on" and walk in the new man except that we first have received it.....and lo and behold that is just what scripture teaches, go figure. It's the new man in us which was born of the Spirit, hence the term born again.

Your assumption is that everyone is like unbelieving Jews and Catholics who have only heard of God but never seen and known Him face to face (because of being reconciled/joined to Him). There are many nominal believers in the evangelical realm too these day, I don't dispute that....I think more than there used to be......especially because many true believers have left the churches in the past 2 decades or more...an exodus.

 

[Behold]

@Behold claims to be born again, so that he doesn't have to do anything or seek for anything. He is fully self-assured. And there is a spectrum to this kind of self-assurance...

God proclaims me to be born again because i did His will.
His will is that "all believe on Jesus whom God sent".....by FAITH, and God then "counts our faith as RIGHTEOUSNESS">.
So, the reason is, Christ has the sin of the born again , and the born have God's imputed righteousness.... Paul teaches.

A sinner can't earn Salvaiton, as you falsely teach, @Epikopos., and the road to Hell is thoroughly paved with all those works.

See.....Salvation is a Gift, its created by Jesus's blood and death, and its received as completed by the Believer, exactly as Christ completed it on The Cross.

Salvation is the finished work of Jesus on The Cross.

A.) "THE Gift of Salvaiton".

This is Paul's Gospel.

Jesus is Salvation., and not works or water baptism or trying to be like Christ.

 

[Laurina]

ok, thank you, I might have a look at her book. I don't dispute that we are, or should be, on a journey of a growing and fuller or deeper consecration and being separated (surrendering) from self and from the world. But I don't see that is possible without the foundation of Christ in us. What does she say about imputed righteousness?

She doesn't. This is her autobiography, her story, her journey into holiness. She doesn't use that terminology.

 

[Behold]

But because God chose me to serve Him

God would never choose anyone for His service who can't undertstand "The Gift of Salvation".
Thats a fact.
So, you are omitted.
All you have to offer is as you explained......"your doctrine", and that is not affilated with God's Gift of Righteousness that is Christianity.

We were not talking about Paul but about why people consider themselves to be saints...and what does that mean?

Its because the NT defines all Christians as "Saints" = the born again are called to be so..

1 Corin

And if people hadn't read about being "born again" would they claim to be?

The only reason anyone can read about being "born again" is because that Bible that you claim can't be trusted, because you say its "faulty" and filled with errors"......told the Reacer that they may be born again if they give God their faith in Christ.

 

[Laurina]

God would never choose anyone for His service who can't undertstand "The Gift of Salvation".
Thats a fact.
So, you are omitted.

Playing God are you?

 

[Behold]

Playing God are you?

Im one of God's......and happy to be so.

Regarding Epikopos....>He has stated that the Gospel that saved everyone on this Forum, who is born again, is a "delusion".
Did you miss that again? @Laurina
He's stated it a few times now and will again, right until He starts denying it. which is what He always does when He's caught in his own web of theological lies.

And you are unable to deal with my Post, so all you can do is say something dishonest again. ....While you are still trying to be a Cheerleader and bodyguard for Episkopos.

Why dont you find something noble to do on the fourm.
Something honest, something that God would be proud of....?
- Still waiting,

 

[Episkopos]

The fact remains, and is not being looked at honestly, how does the church of the last days, the church of Laodicea, get their true condition so wrong? How can they miss the truth to such an extent that Jesus rejects them (spits them out of His mouth).

Do those who are engaged in religious hubris listen to Jesus and repent? Not in the slightest such is the level of indoctrination that fully misses the truth in favour of what sounds right to a self-interest that picks and chooses what sounds best.

So who are these Laodiceans? Not me, most will say. However, only those who realize it IS about them are able to escape the fate as laid out in the book of Revelation.

 

[ProDeo]

So you consider yourself to be a saint?

In your view, do saints seek to win Christ?

Do saints seek first the kingdom?

Do saints work out their own salvation with fear and trembling?

Or are these moot because they are already saints?

I just gave you the most important attribute of a born again and now you ask me for my works. I won't. For the fire will show what remains and what is burned [1 Cor 3:13-15], while I consider everything for the glory of God unconsciously there might be pride in it.

 

[Behold]

Not in the slightest such is the level of indoctrination that fully misses the truth in favour of what sounds right to a self-interest that picks and chooses what sounds best.

A,) "BY Jesus's obedience (going to The Cross)....many (all who believe) will be Made..Righteous..

= "The Gift of Rightousness"........that is the "imputed Righteousness".. of God.


Welcome to : SALVATION

However, only those who realize it IS about them are able to escape the fate as laid out in the book of Revelation.

And who are the overcomers ?

A.) Its all the Born again.

How does that work?

Jesus said......"i have overcome the world".....and all the born again are "IN Christ'"..

See, self righteous Religious people are trying by self effort to do, only what can be achieved by God's Grace,.

 

[Episkopos]

For those who think they understand and Paul and like comparing their own spiritual adventure to his...

I am NOT a boaster but my journey reflects the same events as Paul's

Paul BEGAN his spiritual journey in the Spirit...having had the hands of Ananias of Damascus laid on him. I was baptized in the Spirit directly from heaven, without any human go-between. But I began my spiritual journey by translation into Zion, the kingdom realm to walk in the armour of light.

Paul at some point FAILED God's grace and fell OUT of the Spirit....fell from grace. as I did...twice now. We don't know how many times Paul went in and out of the Spirit but we know it was at least once...Paul says...sin revived and I died (after being free from the law)

So Paul traces his journey from being Dead to sin and a slave to righteousness...in Romans 6...to having sin be revived in him unto death (separation from God's holiness)...in Romans 7.

The second time Paul went into the Spirit he had to be crucified..I am crucified with Christ...it is no longer I... And this from.... it is no longer I but sin...to....no longer I but Christ.

Again, my experience follows this same pattern....being taken back into God's rest to walk where Jesus is. ( a second time)

We don't know how this in and out experience of the kingdom walk affected his writings except that he counsels people FROM that experience...as I also do.

Some of the obvious indicators that Paul wrote while he was absent from the Lord...

"So then whether present or absent (from the Lord) we do all to be accepted with Him."

AND


"Not that I am presently perfect"... meaning that he knew some that were, but not him at the time of his writing..."as many as be perfect"...

If there anyone that can understand Paul's testimony and doctrine it is me having had the same spiritual training from the Lord.

Let the wolves come and take their feeding now...

 

[Lizbeth]

She doesn't. This is her autobiography, her story, her journey into holiness. She doesn't use that terminology.

I googled the question “what did Madame Guyon believe about imputed righteousness?” and this below is the answer that came back…..
(let me know your thoughts @Episkopos)

Madame Guyon believed in a form of imputed righteousness rooted in the Puritan concept of justification by faith alone, where a believer is declared righteous before God because of Christ's righteousness given through faith, not by one's own works or merits. She emphasized that God's work involves destroying the individual's false self-righteousness to build a new life in Christ, leading to a complete surrender to God and a spiritual union with Him.

Key Aspects of Her Beliefs:

Christ's Righteousness: God's gracious act of attributing Christ's perfect righteousness to the believer is the basis for their right standing with Him.

Destruction of Self-Righteousness: A central theme in Guyon's teachings is that God first "razes" or destroys the individual's own prideful, self-made edifice of good works before building a new life in Christ.

Focus on God's Will and Grace: Her emphasis was on God's sovereign will and infinite love, which bestows grace upon His creatures not based on their merits but as a free gift.

Surrender and Transformation: A profound surrender to God is necessary for this imputed righteousness to become fully effective, transforming the believer's life and allowing Christ to live through them.

Purity of Faith: Guyon highlighted Abraham's faith as an example of a pure, simple, and genuine righteousness that was not based on his own actions but on his hope in the coming Christ.
______________________________________________


The above sounds about right to me, and the last sentence there agrees with these blessed words:

1Jo 3:1-3

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.

 

[Azim]

For those who think they understand and Paul and like comparing their own spiritual adventure to his...

I am NOT a boaster but my journey reflects the same events as Paul's

Paul BEGAN his spiritual journey in the Spirit...having had the hands of Ananias of Damascus laid on him. I was baptized in the Spirit directly from heaven, without any human go-between. But I began my spiritual journey by translation into Zion, the kingdom realm to walk in the armour of light.

Paul at some point FAILED God's grace and fell OUT of the Spirit....fell from grace. as I did...twice now. We don't know how many times Paul went in and out of the Spirit but we know it was at least once...Paul says...sin revived and I died (after being free from the law)

So Paul traces his journey from being Dead to sin and a slave to righteousness...in Romans 6...to having sin be revived in him unto death (separation from God's holiness)...in Romans 7.

The second time Paul went into the Spirit he had to be crucified..I am crucified with Christ...it is no longer I... And this from.... it is no longer I but sin...to....no longer I but Christ.

Again, my experience follows this same pattern....being taken back into God's rest to walk where Jesus is. ( a second time)

We don't know how this in and out experience of the kingdom walk affected his writings except that he counsels people FROM that experience...as I also do.

Some of the obvious indicators that Paul wrote while he was absent from the Lord...

"So then whether present or absent (from the Lord) we do all to be accepted with Him."

AND


"Not that I am presently perfect"... meaning that he knew some that were, but not him at the time of his writing..."as many as be perfect"...

If there anyone that can understand Paul's testimony and doctrine it is me having had the same spiritual training from the Lord.

Let the wolves come and take their feeding now...

Is it possible to walk in the Spirit for a smaller time, which, is up to God to translate us there? When I say small, I mean from 5 minutes to 30 minutes or so. I ask this, based on somethings I've experienced, which I have not found any answers to.

 

[Episkopos]

Is it possible to walk in the Spirit for a smaller time, which, is up to God to translate us there? When I say small, I mean from 5 minutes to 30 minutes or so. I ask this, based on somethings I've experienced, which I have not found any answers to.

Sure...but that is a vision or visitation. I have had these during the periods of my absence from the Lord. For an example...The latest one was 2 years ago while riding my bike. I was surrounded by the presence of God in an eternal peace. I was being inspected and loved. This lasted for 10 minutes or so.

But to be translated into the Spirit in the kingdom realm is according to God's keeping power. One needs to sin unto death to leave that.

We can also be taken up for a visit...like to God's throne room... for a short time. The purpose is to make a request directly to God.

 

[Behold]

I am NOT a boaster but my journey reflects the same events as Paul's

Remember that i told you that you would try to copy me and start talking about Paul., as you figure if you do that then you might be able to recover yourself here.
A.) Failed again, and the next 10x you try it.
And now you are trying to pretend you are like Him.
Its ridiculous what you'll post, to try get attention and continue to try to deceive people..

Maybe you forgot that your Salvation Testimony does not mention Paul....it only mentions Peter.
Remember?
But now, suddenly you are the self appointed Paul v2.0
= Pathetic pretense.

Now, I can't spealk for your religious walk that you've committed for a long time but i can confirm that your Gospel is not "Of Paul" as you are a denier of the "Gift of Righteousness".. being "imputed."
Did you want to "conform" you theology now, also?
If you do, just remember that we have all your "delusion" quotes. @Episkopos

Paul at some point FAILED God's grace and fell OUT of the Spirit....fell from grace.

Paul never fell from Grace.
Paul teaches only, in Galatians that a Christian can "fall from Grace".
You are one confused decever., and a dishonet one at that.. according to your posts.

Paul taught in Romans 7, that He had to come to the revelation that Christ's Righteouenss was the only thing, and that He learned this because ;:: "Christ always gives me the Victory"....., and before He was saved, He was trying to keep the law in his pursuiit of religious holiness, and found that what He wanted to do, he could not, and what he hated, is what manifested.
He understood that submisson to God's Grace, is KEY, as this is... "I can do all things through Christ"., and "I die daily".. Paul teaches.
So, after He was born again, he was delivered from his FLESH, as He teaches in Philippians and states that previously he was an incredibly devout religious person... of the Tribe of Benjamin, a Top Pharisee, and once He was born again, the revelation of who he had become "in Christ" was everything to Him as this is the "imputed righteousness" that is God's Grace.

9 """"""And be found in HIM= , not having my own righteousness"..

The second time Paul went into the Spirit he had to be crucified..

What is this theology baloney you are trying to feed people, endlessly.
Listen, no verse in a bible says that Paul "went into the spirit and had to be crucified". And no bible verse says that Paul "Fell from Grace".
The commentaries you are using to teach, are just incredibly bizarre and false., and have created you to be the same. @Episkopos

 

[Lizbeth]

For those who think they understand and Paul and like comparing their own spiritual adventure to his...

I am NOT a boaster but my journey reflects the same events as Paul's

Paul BEGAN his spiritual journey in the Spirit...having had the hands of Ananias of Damascus laid on him. I was baptized in the Spirit directly from heaven, without any human go-between. But I began my spiritual journey by translation into Zion, the kingdom realm to walk in the armour of light.

Paul at some point FAILED God's grace and fell OUT of the Spirit....fell from grace. as I did...twice now. We don't know how many times Paul went in and out of the Spirit but we know it was at least once...Paul says...sin revived and I died (after being free from the law)

So Paul traces his journey from being Dead to sin and a slave to righteousness...in Romans 6...to having sin be revived in him unto death (separation from God's holiness)...in Romans 7.

The second time Paul went into the Spirit he had to be crucified..I am crucified with Christ...it is no longer I... And this from.... it is no longer I but sin...to....no longer I but Christ.

Again, my experience follows this same pattern....being taken back into God's rest to walk where Jesus is. ( a second time)

We don't know how this in and out experience of the kingdom walk affected his writings except that he counsels people FROM that experience...as I also do.

Some of the obvious indicators that Paul wrote while he was absent from the Lord...

"So then whether present or absent (from the Lord) we do all to be accepted with Him."

AND


"Not that I am presently perfect"... meaning that he knew some that were, but not him at the time of his writing..."as many as be perfect"...

If there anyone that can understand Paul's testimony and doctrine it is me having had the same spiritual training from the Lord.

Let the wolves come and take their feeding now...

I'm not the one comparing my spiritual journey with Paul's. I'm not worthy of him, not even close. I simply accept his counsel to be God's word....to be of that same mind as he.

You seem to be imputing things that aren't written. Shouldn't we take what is written at face value? Paul didn't qualify what he was writing, he simply wrote it as I trust the Lord inspired it.

 

[Behold]

Sure...but that is a vision or visitation. I have had these during the periods of my absence from the Lord.

Do you think they'll fall for it? Perhaps even one of the Mods?

So, now that you can't prove any of your bizarre theology is NT truth, you are reduced to trying to convince the religious kiddies that you have lots of visitations.
I suspect you might, but its not whom you think it is....

But to be translated into the Spirit in the kingdom realm is according to God's keeping power. One needs to sin unto death to leave that.

Post a Bible verse that says you need to "sin unto death'.. to be translated into the Kingdom realm". @Episkopos

Geez, ive never seen so much incredible unbiblical nonsense posted by such a Legalist.

We can also be taken up for a visit...like to God's throne room... for a short time.

Where is that Bible verse that says = any Christian can be "taken up for a visit'..?

Quote that for us @Episkopos

The purpose is to make a request directly to God.

No, that wont happen, as Jesus told us that our Prayers and our Praise enter the Throne of God.

So, again, you are one fiction writer, regarding posting what you defined as '"My Doctrine".

 

[Lizbeth]

Is it possible to walk in the Spirit for a smaller time, which, is up to God to translate us there? When I say small, I mean from 5 minutes to 30 minutes or so. I ask this, based on somethings I've experienced, which I have not found any answers to.

It is not unusual for believers to taste the powers of the world to come.......this is just normal for God. For His purposes and reasons known to Him. Could be for such reasons as encouragement, to build our faith and relationship with Him, etc. But we just should keep in mind that our experiences should line up with the word of God and His character, as the bible instructs us to test and discern the spirits, and we learn by experience too.

 

[Behold]

Let the wolves come and take their feeding now...

A religious martyr complex is..

a psychological tendency to view oneself as a victim, exaggerating opposition and rejection from the world as proof of one's own Christ-like status. It often involves self perceived persecution .
This complex can lead to an inflated sense of responsibility, and a distorted understanding of one's relationship with God and others.

 

[Behold]

Is it possible to walk in the Spirit for a smaller time, which, is up to God to translate us there? When I say small, I mean from 5 minutes to 30 minutes or so. I ask this, based on somethings I've experienced, which I have not found any answers to.

Have you heard of Astrial Projection?
Its the ability of the spirit or consciousness to leave the physical body and travel independently to other places...
Now, within the Devil's realm, you can "translate", quite a bit. like that.
You can float, speak in tongues, and even work "magic".

So, what you have to do, is read the NT........that is given to Christians, and find out if any of this, was happening a lot, or even some.
Dismiss Paul's visit to Heaven, as He was stoned to death, first.
See if you can find another, or say.......12 Aposles or disciples or born again Christians who went to heaven for a joy ride......and if you can find these.........where the NT says that "any time you want to take a trip to the 3rd heaven, then just get ready and hold on"., then believe it.
But if not..........

See, you have to let the Holy Bible be your final authority and not some crazy spiritual talk you find on forums being committed by people with mental issues and a burning carnal tendency to say anything to make you believe their hyper religious nonsense.