Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Episkopos]

self promotion. God allowed him but not others.

God promotion....truth promotion....gospel promotion. I was chosen to preach the truth and witness to the power of the gospel of grace.

Not everyone has a ministry like that. And God doesn't need your permission to do as He wills.

 

[shepherdsword]

For me this is what applies here:

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Paul wrote here in effect that his conscience was clean, though that doesn't mean he's not doing anything wrong, rather that he's not qualified to know really, and leaves that to Jesus to judge.

So yes, I agree, to ask, can we live sinlessly, that's not the question, because we aren't even going to know. But can we walk continuously with a clear conscience, not because we are ignoring ourselves, but because our life experience is serving Jesus, living in communion with Him. Are we showing a continuous stream of good works, a sound mind, like that? Without being accused by our conscience?

Much love!

@ProDeo

Excellent!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God promotion....truth promotion....gospel promotion. I was chosen to preach the truth and witness to the power of the gospel of grace.

Not everyone has a ministry like that. And God doesn't need your permission to do as He wills.

when you promote God. you promote what he did, not what you do.

everything you pretty much say is about what you do.. you boast more them most people I know

You can not teach truth if you have no truth

again, you have little to know truth. and you will answer to God one day

 

[Episkopos]

Excellent!

when you promote God. you promote what he did, not what you do.

You are not understanding being empowered by the Spirit.

everything you pretty much say is about what you do.. you boast more them most people I know

I testify...you boast.

You can not teach truth if you have no truth

Then why are you here?

again, you have little to know truth. and you will answer to God one day

I know truth...the only two words strung together by you that have any truth.

The actual phrase would read..."no truth" but that applies to you. The "know truth" applies to me as you have stated unaware.

 

[marks]

its not as easy as you make it out to be..

Simple, but not easy! I completely agree! I do not say we are to ignore our sins.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Agreed. The higher walk is above sin. But not many are allowed to that place...the way is very narrow indeed. The surrender too complete for anyone who doesn't forsake their own lives. BUT it is possible to gather the dew of the morning everyday to be filled with God's words and walk the way of righteousness. However, that walk does not protect us from the provocations of the flesh. We are still in our own strength...however, we can experience the touch of God at times and have a good conscience with boldness. It is only as we disparage the higher walk that we invite God's wrath on judgment day.

I'd sooner say that as we trust in Jesus fully - not just partly, but fully - that we walk in the Spirit, as this is our default state as God's children. This is what God rebirthed us for, to live His way, not according to our flesh.

The Bible does not teach a "higher walk", it teaches walking in the Spirit or walking according to flesh. That being said, within the bounds of "walking in the Spirit" God may do any number of things. You've known the walk you've known. Others have known the walk they've known.

Walking in the Spirit is walking without sin, according to the Bible, which I believe. There is no disparaging a "higher walk", we are speaking of variations within "walking in the Spirit". For all the "higher walk" we may speak of, others may know a "higher walk" still.

The Bible remains clear, we walk in the Spirit, not committing sin, or we walk according to flesh, a mixed bag depending on our spiritual maturity, our trust, our character, like that.

We are all called to walk in the Spirit. Some, God blesses with this being done to them, mostly, I believe He trains us in the Way, intending our inner being to be fully developed.

Much love!

 

[ProDeo]

Walking in the Spirit is the remedy for this, isn't it? So how do we stop from going back to walking according to flesh? How do we win every battle?

Much love!

Knowing self is an excellent start understanding Romans 8, Paul had his knowing self experience in Romans 7.

 

[shepherdsword]

marks said:
For me this is what applies here:

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Paul wrote here in effect that his conscience was clean, though that doesn't mean he's not doing anything wrong, rather that he's not qualified to know really, and leaves that to Jesus to judge.

So yes, I agree, to ask, can we live sinlessly, that's not the question, because we aren't even going to know.

@Episkopos I think what Mark wrote here is excellent. I mean, are we qualified to judge our ownselves as to sinless perfection when even Paul testified that he didn't judge his own self? Yes, we can have a conscience clear of sin but does that mean we are sinless?

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos I think what Mark wrote here is excellent. I mean, are we qualified to judge our ownselves as to sinless perfection when even Paul testified that he didn't judge his own self? Yes, we can have a conscience clear of sin but does that mean we are sinless?

It's the lawless ones here that use the word sinless to disparage grace and misrepresent the gospel. I don't say it that way. I say that In Christ is no sin....like the bible does. What you are agreeing with is also biblical...that we may walk in our own power but be LED by the Spirit and not know whether we sin or not because we are busy serving God's interests. Like John the Baptist. Paul was busy teaching and preaching...with no time to indulge in carnal things. His mind being already renewed, so that even if He was not walking in the power of the Spirit, the INFLUENCE of the Spirit was still there.

That doesn't take away from the holiness walk whereby we KNOW it is not us doing the works...but Christ. Being a slave of Christ is beyond just being busy doing righteousness.

Paul makes that distinction...whether present or absent from the Lord, we do all to be acceptable to God.

 

[shepherdsword]

It's the lawless ones here that use the word sinless to disparage grace and misrepresent the gospel. I don't say it that way. I say the In Christ is no sin....like the bible does. What you are agreeing with is also biblical...that we may walk in our own power but be LED by the Spirit and not know whether we sin or not because we are busy serving God's interests.

That doesn't take away from the holiness walk whereby we KNOW it is not us doing the works...but Christ. Being a slave of Christ is beyond just being busy doing righteousness.

I ask God to turn my heart like rivers of water. It's a song I sing alone based on this verse(not that I am a king)

Pr 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

I think His grace creates desire and desire increases the grace. Grace as defined "God's enabling power"

 

[MatthewG]

Then you haven't understood the seriousness of the thread and the claim that is made.

That for God to judge, right? I ain't gonna try to proactive seek to engage with someone who doesnt see anything wrong with what they are sharing inherently.

It's similar to how I believe Jesus has already returned.

I still believe in the death, burial, and resurrection, but no return anymore for today at least that is the way I see things.

Yet people think that, uh... Im wrong and they think they need to correct me otherwise, if i don't align with their belief systems, Im already a non-christian - to some.


Make no sense. I believe in the resurrection of Yeshua, and that we are indwelled by the Spirit of Christ, and that Christ comes in and through us when abide in him, is the same Yeshua that died on the cross and was raised again by the holy spirit of God.

So... wild isnt it.

 

[ProDeo]

It's one thing for the flesh to try appearing humble...but the unbelief you display at every turn means that the honesty has to go a LOT further in order to take anything you say seriously. It's all flesh, bro.

The flesh can't be humble, you do know that from experience. This is what you wrote in post #50

In Christ we walk as He walked in HIS perfection. I have walked that way for 2 lengths of time. The first I lasted a few days. It was new to me and I started to feel trapped...I was far too selfish to appreciate God's miraculous walk in the Spirit. Next time was 18 years later and this time I lasted for 2 and half years. I won some battles but failed a test so I was back to walking as any man. That was 23 years ago or so. I don't know many that understand actually being under grace...and the power that His life brings. Entering INTO Christ. In Him is no sin.

What a fleshy thing to say, the red.

~~~~

Regarding 1 John 3

1John 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. [ESV]
1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [KJV]

1John 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. [ESV]
1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. [KJV]

1John 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. [ESV]
1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. [KJV]

1John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. [ESV]
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [KJV]

Which translation is the right one, the one you use (KJV) to make your case or the ESV ?

I do think the ESV explains what John meant to say IN CONTEXT what he wrote earlier, 2 chapters ago. There it is, that pesky word context that so often destroys quoted isolated verses, as in your case.

. It can not be that 3:6 means - one sin and you never knew Jesus.
. It can not be that 3:8 means - one sin and you are of the devil.
. Likewise, It can not be that 3:9 means - a reborn can not sin.

Furthermore a literal KJV interpretation is in direct conflict what John wrote in chapter one :

1Joh 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Joh 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[ProDeo]

God promotion....truth promotion....gospel promotion. I was chosen to preach the truth and witness to the power of the gospel of grace.

Not everyone has a ministry like that. And God doesn't need your permission to do as He wills.

You now raise the stake very high, I now must believe God entrusted you the words of Himself.

Wow.......

So far what you have contributed does not line up with the whole counsel of the Scriptures, 2 isolated verses in 1 John, not even properly understood does not make a sinless walk in Christ true.

More than 100 billion people lived and died on the planet an no one, not one, lived without sin.

Except Jesus.

And why was that ?

Because Jesus was God the Son, and God the Son like God the Father can not sin, not even when taking the human form.

We are not Jesus, the God man Epi, and never will.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are not understanding being empowered by the Spirit.

I understand it, I have been under his power for 50 years now

I testify...you boast.

I boast in Christ. You never hear me talk about how Good I am. or my walk. thats all you

Then why are you here?

I know truth...the only two words strung together by you that have any truth.

You have your own truth, you always have, And you have your followers. thats all you will ever have

The actual phrase would read..."no truth" but that applies to you. The "know truth" applies to me as you have stated unaware.

lol. My friend. You would not know truth if it hit you in the face.

in fact it does ever day when people try to show you. But you just ignore it. then attack those trying to share it with you.

You have done that since I first met you. I usually just ignore you. But someone showed me this thread, so I came in. Hoping to find something different. but disturbed to find the same boastful, proud, person I have always known.

 

[Marvelloustime]

For when they shall say peace n safety THEN sudden destruction comes upon them and they will not escape .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

I rest my case. he teaches what I said he did.

its all about him.. not about God

He believes this high walk in CHRIST can be done and attained EVEN IF ONE DOES NOT BELEIVE ON , CONFESS JESUS .
its all a snare and highly deadly .
In fact way back when i used to warn Him about the dire need to FIRST BELEIVE ON JESUS
that was called religious ego etc .
GUESS WHO and WHAT i am gonna continue to point too .
JESUS the CHRIST with the absolute dire reminder of the dire necessity to BELEIVE ON HIM .
Teaching also to observe all things HE did teach .
The true gospel has many enemies in this last hour .
And many are the folks that work in many different ways to alter it . NOT gonna bode well at all on those who dared to do such a thing .

 

[shepherdsword]

He believes this high walk in CHRIST can be done and attained EVEN IF ONE DOES NOT BELEIVE ON , CONFESS JESUS .

When did he say this?

 

[amigo de christo]

When did he say this?

a long time back . and every time i reminded him about this he called it religious ego .
You ask him and see if he has changed his mind .
Go on and ask him . And yeah i already know all about many who might even profess his name and yet
Their walk is cont rary to HIM . but if one even thinks its not necessary to have had to even BELIEVE on CHRIST
yeah its all in vain . Many beleive in the idea that all religoins can walk , and even have the SPIRIT
A LIE of course . they all serve satan .
T RUTH is that if one confesses JESUS and yet loves sin , THEY DO NOT KNOW HIM
TRUTH IS a true beleiver WOULD have confessed JESUS , BELEIVED IN HIM
And by the SPIRIT they now have they would walk as DID HE . That also means we would also have taught
all things HE did . But this other inclusive gospel , YEAH ITS GOT TO GO . its love will save none and damn all .
Now its time for many to return to the simple basics , get in that bible to learn for themselves .

 

[Lizbeth]

The flesh can't be humble, you do know that from experience. This is what you wrote in post #50



What a fleshy thing to say, the red.

~~~~

Regarding 1 John 3

1John 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. [ESV]
1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [KJV]

1John 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. [ESV]
1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. [KJV]

1John 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. [ESV]
1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. [KJV]

1John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. [ESV]
1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [KJV]

Which translation is the right one, the one you use (KJV) to make your case or the ESV ?

I do think the ESV explains what John meant to say IN CONTEXT what he wrote earlier, 2 chapters ago. There it is, that pesky word context that so often destroys quoted isolated verses, as in your case.

. It can not be that 3:6 means - one sin and you never knew Jesus.
. It can not be that 3:8 means - one sin and you are of the devil.
. Likewise, It can not be that 3:9 means - a reborn can not sin.

Furthermore a literal KJV interpretation is in direct conflict what John wrote in chapter one :

1Joh 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Joh 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Who is born of God but the new man within us? Understanding I believe to have received from the Lord (through what someone said in a post just a few months ago)......is that the new man cannot sin because he is born of He who is without sin. But we still are contending with the old man of the flesh, until he is overcome and surrendered up wholesale and laid on the altar. When we are walking in the Spirit we are walking as the new man above our old man and flesh because that is all put under our feet at such times, whether for a brief time or season, or in a more permanent way. For now we are making sacrifices......until we ourselves become a sacrifice, lock stock and barrel. A living sacrifice. Which is what I believe it means where it says if we lose our life (psuche) for His sake we will find it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Who is born of God but the new man within us? Understanding I believe to have received from the Lord (through what someone said in a post just a few months ago)......is that the new man cannot sin because he is born of He who is without sin. But we still are contending with the old man of the flesh, until he is overcome and surrendered up wholesale and laid on the altar. When we are walking in the Spirit we are walking as the new man above our old man and flesh because that is all put under our feet at such times, whether for a brief time or season, or in a more permanent way. For now we are making sacrifices......until we ourselves become a sacrifice, lock stock and barrel. A living sacrifice. Which is what I believe it means where it says if we lose our life (psuche) for His sake we will find it.

yes.

when we sacrifice outrselves. God produced fruit through us

But it will not save us, if we are not already saved, it is called self righteousness. and will not produce fruit