Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[marks]

The whole context of Galatians is about Judaizers invading the church and forcing circumcision onto them. This of course was the prelude to enforcing the Mosiac law.

Understood.

Paul was saying he was dependent on his own righteousness which would preempt grace.

Galatians 2:20-21 KJV
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Did you mean to say that IF Paul were dependent on his own righteousness that it would not leave space for grace? Am I understanding correctly?

When you say, "would preempt grace", are you meaning grace as "enabling power" or it's other meaning of "undeserved favor"?

So that relying on my own efforts to be right with God prevent His enabling power to have effect in me? Is that your idea? I want to make sure I understand.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

It is IN us by faith. Or do you believe that our new man is not righteous, which the scripture says is created after the image of He who created it....?

The inner man, the empowered new man...is entangled in the flesh of the outer man and needs to be cut off...crucified to set free the life in the inner man. Otherwise we are workers of iniquity....divided...trying to survive the call of the gospel which leads us to the cross, due to a lack of understanding of our true condition. Religious ideology just gets in the way of the truth. It blinds us. You can't see your true condition until you see the weight of glory the saints are called to.

 

[Lizbeth]

The inner man, the empowered new man...is entangled in the flesh of the outer man and needs to be cut off...crucified to set free the life in the inner man. Otherwise we are workers of iniquity....divided...trying to survive the call of the gospel which leads us to the cross, due to a lack of understanding of our true condition. Religious ideology just gets in the way of the truth. It blinds us. You can't see your true condition until you see the weight of glory the saints are called to.

The bible says the new man is created after the image of He who created it. Is He who created our new man lacking anything? No, of course not. Then neither is our new man.....our new man is complete. But the new man is a spiritual man and the flesh/old man and spirit oppose one another. Yes, they are both living in the same vessel so there is conflict and entanglement. I think you meant to say it is the old man that needs to be surrendered or cut off as you put it. I believe the Lord is leading His people (as long as we are following) to that place of surrendering our old man "self" on the altar. That is the "life" that the narrow path leads to. Walking in the Spirit is walking in the "life" of Jesus....at such times we are not making "choices" to do or not to do thus and such, but HE is simply doing His will (living) through us.

I don't agree we are workers of iniquity, if we are obeying the Lord and not wilfully sinning. But we are falling short except when we are walking in the Spirit, or to the degree that we are. The rich young ruler was not a worker of iniquity, he was living righteously (if not yet perfectly) but had become aware that something was still lacking. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Jesus' challenge to him was a picture to us of surrendering all of oneself, "losing" his life in order to find the "life" that he was seeking and realizing he still lacked.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't agree we are workers of iniquity,

What you are saying here is totally biblical.

"And Ephraim said, Yet I am become rich, I have found me out substance: in all my labours they shall find none iniquity in me that were sin." Hos 12:8


But the Lord says...
“And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till you die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.” Is 22:14


And this death is not a physical one... it means going to the cross to die with Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

I always looked at grace as enabling power due to this:

1 Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

And this:

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

 

[Lizbeth]

What you are saying here is totally biblical.

"And Ephraim said, Yet I am become rich, I have found me out substance: in all my labours they shall find none iniquity in me that were sin." Hos 12:8


But the Lord says...
“And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till you die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.” Is 22:14


And this death is not a physical one... it means going to the cross to die with Christ.

"Having" iniquity/sin is not the same thing as being a worker of it, ie of wilfully committing sin/iniquity. We all "have" sin/iniquity in our old man of the flesh, but that is not the same thing as committing it. And as for inadvertent types of sin and shortcomings, Paul wrote that if I do that I would not (ie it is not wilful) it is no longer "I" who sin but sin living in me. He himself confessed that in him, in his flesh, dwells no good thing.

Yes, I agree our goal is to live dead to our old man and sin, and to this world.

Ephraim's error in that scripture was to be righteous in their own eyes, not admitting to inward shortcomings and iniquity. And also to be committing sins wilfully without regard to God and conscience while believing that making sacrifices exonerated them without any sincere repentance. Kind of like how Italian mobsters might commit murder and extortion on purpose on a regular basis, but think that going to "church" once a week and "confession" once a month somehow makes up for it. Such sacrifices/offerings are a stench in God's nostrils.

Yes, iniquity is purged from us in one sense, when we die to our old man self.....but also because our old man WAS crucified with Christ.....our sins/iniquities were laid on Him and nailed to the cross in His body. That's why we are to reckon ourselves dead to it, and walking in the spirit manifests the reality of that truth, of what was already accomplished on our behalf.

 

[Lizbeth]

I always looked at grace as enabling power due to this:

1 Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Yes, grace is His enabling power that we did not earn or deserve.....as part of the same package of forgiveness and favor that we did not earn or deserve. I think you will see that if you do a word search of grace, and gracious/graciousness in the bible. It's one of my favourite ways to catch a sense of a word, with the Holy Spirit's illumination.

 

[amigo de christo]

This verse is a great example for your thought on this.

Two other passages come to my mind,

1 Corinthians 9:16-18 KJV
16) For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17) For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18) What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

Galatians 2:19-21 KJV
19) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21) I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

In context of this particular question, what is your thought on vs 21 above, "I do not frustrate the grace of God"?

Much love!

Paul i know , peter i know , james and jude i know
And most all of CHRIST I KNOW PREACHED THE ONE TRUE GOSPEL .
But woe unto many who have fallen for the ecuminical tides of interfaith which I DARN SURE KNOW
DOES NOT but rather implies all religoins are somehow worshipping the same GOD we do .
Cause feel free to examine what paul told to king aggripa about what JESUS HIMSELF had told paul .
and notice it says people and gentiles . That includes the jews .
That ALL ARE UNDER THE POWER and sway of satan and of darkness
AND THERE BE BUT ONE WAY to BE FREE FROM THAT . HIS NAME JESUS CHRIST and our FAITH must BE IN HIM .
So their broad road no matter how kind , caring and loving it did seem
WAS NONE OF THE ABOVE , IT WAS A LIE and that does and will damn them all . I dont see the love in a lie
I dont see mercy or caring or kindness IN A LIE . BUT I SURE SEE IT IN THE TRUTH . Now to the trenches
mark and all for the hour has grown quite late and the time is coming
wherein the DOOR will shut and all outside shall wail .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, grace is His enabling power that we did not earn or deserve.....as part of the same package of forgiveness and favor that we did not earn or deserve. I think you will see that if you do a word search of grace, and gracious/graciousness in the bible. It's one of my favourite ways to catch a sense of a word, with the Holy Spirit's illumination.

So let us also always remember
any grace that omits one had to beleive on CHRIST
and any grace that giveth license to sin
IT AINT COMING FROM GOD . ITS NOT HIS MERCY and NOT HIS GRACE
Its of the devil who has come to lead all astray and to keep those lost in sin and unbelief .
By promising them all a lie that has made the road to what they see as GOD , but is not GOD
very broad .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, grace is His enabling power that we did not earn or deserve.....as part of the same package of forgiveness and favor that we did not earn or deserve. I think you will see that if you do a word search of grace, and gracious/graciousness in the bible. It's one of my favourite ways to catch a sense of a word, with the Holy Spirit's illumination.

This is not about you dear sister . What i write next is just a reminder to us all .
I notice many will run to men , to etc to search out a word
BUT HOW simple it could have been and HOW Lovely it had been
HAD THEY JUST TRUSTED IN THE WORD , as IN CHRIST JESUS , by WHOM they would have learned His words .
Many run to men
WHEN THEY SHOULD have RUN TO CHRIST .
Again you KNOW i aint saying this about you dear sister . IT was just a general reminder for us all .

 

[Lizbeth]

So let us also always remember
any grace that omits one had to beleive on CHRIST
and any grace that giveth license to sin
IT AINT COMING FROM GOD . ITS NOT HIS MERCY and NOT HIS GRACE
Its of the devil who has come to lead all astray and to keep those lost in sin and unbelief .
By promising them all a lie that has made the road to what they see as GOD , but is not GOD
very broad .

Amen....the grace, mercy and favour of God only comes by FAITH, to those whom He foreknew, the same way it came to Abraham and other old testament saints.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen....the grace, mercy and favour of God only comes by FAITH, to those whom He foreknew, the same way it came to Abraham and other old testament saints.

And whose FAITH was abraham in ...............
GOD .
if our faith be in men we are DOOMED sister , as you already know that .
IF our faith be in our own intellectual mindset , WE ARE DOOMED .
But if our faith BE IN CHRIST JESUS THEN OUR FAITH BE IN GOD and we would have TRUSTED HIS WORDS
and not rather , as many have done , twisted them unto their own destruction .
THIS is a far simplier walk than what man has made it out to be .
Always cometh confusion and twistings with many men .
BUT NOT WITH GOD . HE SIMPLY spoke and abraham BELIEVED and abraham OBEYED .
FAITH in action . IT HEARS GOD it BELIEVES GOD , IT OBEYS GOD .
That be the faith that cometh oF GOD . AND JESUS IS THE PRIME example of what FAITH IS .
HE WALKED PERFECTLY and in total submission UNTO THE FATHER .
HE IS THE WAY and the ONLY WAY TO the FATHER . And ALL words inspired of GOD
are meat for our soul . meant for our learning .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen....the grace, mercy and favour of God only comes by FAITH, to those whom He foreknew, the same way it came to Abraham and other old testament saints.

Made in the same likeness of flesh of men
BUT WITHOUT SIN and BLEMISH .
Tempted in all points and yet OVERCAME IT ALL .
THAT WAS THE DUTY OF CHRIST JESUS .
TO do the WILL OF THE FATHER Who did SEND HIM .
Having flesh just like ours
but with JESUS IT was , NOT MY WILL BE DONE but YOURS .
what a perfect example FOR US ALL . Not our will o LORD but yours be done .
And now for a reminder YOU ALSO know very well but i do so for the sakes of many .
INTERFAITH IS OF ANTI CHRIST and by its peace SHALL DESTROY MANY .

 

[Lizbeth]

This is not about you dear sister . What i write next is just a reminder to us all .
I notice many will run to men , to etc to search out a word
BUT HOW simple it could have been and HOW Lovely it had been
HAD THEY JUST TRUSTED IN THE WORD , as IN CHRIST JESUS , by WHOM they would have learned His words .
Many run to men
WHEN THEY SHOULD have RUN TO CHRIST .
Again you KNOW i aint saying this about you dear sister . IT was just a general reminder for us all .

Amen. As our faith grows we realize we can go directly to the Lord and look to Him, to teach us and illuminate His word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen. As our faith grows we realize we can go directly to the Lord and look to Him, to teach us and illuminate His word.

has God given us a spirit of fear. or a sound mind?

these people who want to teach Fear and works as motivation to do good do not understand who God is.

 

[Lizbeth]

And whose FAITH was abraham in ...............
GOD .
if our faith be in men we are DOOMED sister , as you already know that .
IF our faith be in our own intellectual mindset , WE ARE DOOMED .
But if our faith BE IN CHRIST JESUS THEN OUR FAITH BE IN GOD and we would have TRUSTED HIS WORDS
and not rather , as many have done , twisted them unto their own destruction .
THIS is a far simplier walk than what man has made it out to be .
Always cometh confusion and twistings with many men .
BUT NOT WITH GOD . HE SIMPLY spoke and abraham BELIEVED and abraham OBEYED .
FAITH in action . IT HEARS GOD it BELIEVES GOD , IT OBEYS GOD .
That be the faith that cometh oF GOD . AND JESUS IS THE PRIME example of what FAITH IS .
HE WALKED PERFECTLY and in total submission UNTO THE FATHER .
HE IS THE WAY and the ONLY WAY TO the FATHER . And ALL words inspired of GOD
are meat for our soul . meant for our learning .

Amen. Although simple doesn't always equate to easy, because we're in a battle and it's an upward call. But as we keep following, the Lord leads us to confront and illuminate to us the various obstacles and hindrances we have along the way, which we need to overcome.

 

[Lizbeth]

has God given us a spirit of fear. or a sound mind?

these people who want to teach Fear and works as motivation to do good do not understand who God is.

Having a healthy fear of the Lord can be our best friend when we're being tempted in any way. And fear of the Lord is predicated on faith remember, because we don't fear and revere who we don't believe in.

We came to faith apart from works......and I would die on that hill brother. But as we go along we have our part in counting the cost, as Jesus said. The extra oil for our lamps is bought, ie, we pay a price for it. And James wrote that by works faith is made perfect. They go hand in hand.

 

[Behold]

That is the gift of the higher walk in the righteousness of God. It is an anointing from the Spirit.,

Let me explain Salvation to you.. as God provided it.

-
There exists in Heaven, Eternal Holy God, who is Righteousness.
And there is Heaven, where there is only Righteousness, found.

So, the eternal issue is.....how can a sinner, who is unrighteous, become "one with God" and go to heaven?

A.) So, God became a man, and died on The Cross so that by His blood and death Sacrifice, that is the NEW Covenant... God could deal with all our sin, and then give us His very own Righteousness.

And now being "made righteous", by the "imputed righteousness of Christ"... that is """ the GIFT of Righteousness"" we are become born again, = joined to God, spiritually.

See that? That is Salvation and its eternal.
That is Eternal Life. That is what it means to be "IN Christ"..

Now......notice this verse carefully...

"""""""Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for Righteousness."""""

Notice that God counted or imputed = RIGHTEOUSNESS to Abraham, soley and only based on Abrahams faith.

And God does the same for us.., as our "Faith is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness".

The means that the Believer has received RIGHTEOUSNESS from God, as a GIFT......>"The Gift of Righteousness".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Having a healthy fear of the Lord can be our best friend when we're being tempted in any way. And fear of the Lord is predicated on faith remember, because we don't fear and revere who we don't believe in.

We came to faith apart from works......and I would die on that hill brother. But as we go along we have our part in counting the cost, as Jesus said. The extra oil for our lamps is bought, ie, we pay a price for it. And James wrote that by works faith is made perfect. They go hand in hand.

seek after the things of the spirit and you will nto fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Sorry, these were the verses I was trying to reference., I may not have been clear. forgive me

 

[ProDeo]

@Episkopos

Brother, hope you are still reading, I am missing your feedback on 2 of my posts.

#252 and #253

Blessings.