Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[shepherdsword]

We need to read James 2:21-24 in context. In James 2:14 we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, (also see Romans 4:2-3) many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. (James 2:18) That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." (James 2:21) He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the term "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

I could have saved you the google search and copy/paste by telling you I agree Faith is made perfect by works and that works demonstrate true faith.This is what James was teaching. All I did was post the verses without any commentary and you got triggered.

It was said in response to "Behold's" statement:

"Justifcation BY Faith".. "without works...

which is in disagreement with James. He seems to think that faith is some mental agreement that doesn't require any action. James tells us that if works do not follow faith then it is dead.

 

[Episkopos]

Well, let's hear you expound on the new man and old man Epi, how it fits into your theology.

A lot of people are encouraged in the religious system to read the bible and claim spiritual things for themselves as being "figurative"...since no one has any real experience in spiritual things. It's due to ignorance...but a WILLFUL ignorance.


Paul said...having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. Of such turn away.

I would say of modern religionists ....denying the power of the cross to embrace a spiritualization of the truth in abstraction. Easy to do, if you are dishonest. easy to preach, easy way to fill the pews.

When the old man is crucified there is no more power of sin left over...one can walk in Christ's perfection just as He did. As Paul said "No longer I (ego).

How I read and receive it, is that it IS reality.

In your own mind. No wonder society today is so make-believe...a woman claiming to be a man or a rabbit, or a man thinking he's a woman or a cat. The very twisting of the bible brings those same deceiving spirits into the world...wiping out God's judgment that could save them.

It is the reality from which the impossible becomes possible. Without this reality, nothing that you speak of would be possible. All things HAVE been put under the feet of Jesus, but we do not yet (necessarily) SEE all things put under Him. That He must reign until all His enemies are put under His feet sounds like a contradiction too - but it isn't, it's a spiritual paradox. Can't build a building without the foundation first being in place.

The foundation is NOT a religious imagination. Beliefs are not faith. The narrow way is NOT being religiously narrow minded. Each of these errors are like layers of an onion you will need to peel away if you are going to experience truth in power. You have to forsake the flesh and human reasoning.

 

[Episkopos]

I could have saved you the google search and copy/paste by telling you I agree Faith is made perfect by works and that works demonstrate true faith.This is what James was teaching. All I did was post the verses without any commentary and you got triggered.

It was said in response to "Behold's" statement:


which is in disagreement with James. He seems to think that faith is some mental agreement that doesn't require any action. James tells us that if works do not follow faith then it is dead.

James was speaking of truth on a righteousness level, since Paul is only concerned with holiness and glory.

Righteousness is EITHER by works OR by faith...as is amply demonstrated in the bible. If one doesn't know this then one needs to study more.

However, the reason Paul focuses so heavily on faith as opposed to works is because one can't enter the kingdom realm by works...but ONLY by faith. No man can earn holiness...it is a gift of grace...only by faith.

So the pretenders know sort of the idea of the truth but don't understand what it is. A fan of something isn't necessarily a master of something, that's why people gather in stadiums to watch masters perform.

People who argue with my simple explanations are fans without any spiritual experience.

Jesus says to seek first the kingdom...a man of faith will actually do that very thing UNTIL he is translated into the kingdom realm in Zion to walk in a supernatural walk without sin. Such are under grace. All others will fail due to a lack of real faith. Faith gets Jesus off His throne...God LOVES faith. When He sees faith He acts..and a miraculous transformation is the result. Paul was merely testifying of this action which is grace through faith. But people want to claim the glory of grace without having been approved in heaven. Such will be rejected into outer darkness...yes, saved, but as vessels of scorn and dishonour.

 

[Behold]

Bald-faced lie. Why do you always twist the truth?

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just (righteous) man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

I dont lie., and i only teach Paul's Theology.

Notice in your verse, that you didnt read carefully.. (as usual)...that its not God who claimed that Cornelius was at THAT TIME, "righteous."
This status was attributed to him by other people. @Episkopos
I guess you didnt comprehend this, so, im glad i can help you with the verse., as you certainly need the help.

Now what i previously showed you is that LATER, when He heard Peter's Preaching, he was ""filled with the Spriit.""
So, that is the PROOF that He became a Christian..... = LATER.
Notice this verse...."He that hath not the Spirit of God (in you) is none of God's'""
See, the literal proof of being born again, is that the Spirit of God, is in you.....like this...>"Christ IN YOU< the hope of Glory".

See it?

So, when those people said that Cornelius was devout, or good, or righteous...they were not saying that He was a Christian, as he wasn't one yet.
But later, he became "the righteousness of God in Christ".....having been "Made righteous"......when He heard Peter preach, and he was "filled with the Spirit".

 

[Behold]

The truth is that the modern gospel is neither righteous nor holy.

If you are able, go ahead and define what you mean by "the modern gospel", as you never define it.

Give it a try @Episkopos

 

[mailmandan]

I could have saved you the google search and copy/paste by telling you I agree Faith is made perfect by works and that works demonstrate true faith.This is what James was teaching. All I did was post the verses without any commentary and you got triggered.

It was said in response to "Behold's" statement:

which is in disagreement with James. He seems to think that faith is some mental agreement that doesn't require any action. James tells us that if works do not follow faith then it is dead.

Just making sure. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) yet genuine faith is demonstrated or evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-26; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Are we in agreement?

 

[Episkopos]

I dont lie., and i only teach Paul's Theology.

Notice in your verse, that you didnt read carefully.........that its not God who claimed that Cornelius was at THAT TIME, "righteous."
This status was attributed to him by other people. @Episkopos
I guess you didnt comprehend this, so, im glad i can help you with the verse., as you certainly need the help.

Now what i previously showed you is that LATER, when He heard Peter's Preaching, he was ""filled with the Spriit.""
So, that is the PROOF that He became a Christian..... = LATER.
Notice this verse...."He that hath not the Spirit of God (in you) is none of God's'.
See the proof of being born again, is that the Spirit of God, is in you.....like this...>"Christ IN YOU< the hope of Glory".

See it?

So, when those people said that Cornelius was devout, or good, or righteous...they were not saying that He was a Christian, as he wasn't one yet.
But later, he became "the righteousness of God in Christ".....having been "Made righteous"......when He heard Peter preache, and he was "filled with the Spirit".

More lies and foolishness. If I write a verse where God declares someone righteous...like Abraham, you will say that is only for the Jews in the OT. If I quote the many times the righteous are mentioned you will obfuscate and say that the testimony is from men.

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

I could post a dozen more such verses but the deaf and blind can't perceive.

 

[Episkopos]

If you are able, go ahead and define what you mean by "the modern gospel", as you never define it.

Give it a try @Episkopos

Your false gospel that Paul warns about...your own man-made foolish contraption that justifies sin and falsehood.

 

[Behold]

More lies and foolishness. If I write a verse where God declares someone righteous..

Back up little one.

Originally you tried to prove that Cornelius, was righteous with a verse that does not prove it.
So, i showed you that your verse is stating that other people said this.... not God.
Now you are running and dodging and trying to avoid being proven to know nothing about the verse you posted.
This seems to be your ministry, other then to deny The Cross., or teach your "Higher walk in Zion pipedream" that isnt found in a NT.

And they were both righteous before God,

Again, you are trying to cover up that you tried to falsely prove that Cornelius was "righteous" in YOUR VERSE.... not even understanding that He was not even become a Christian yet, in your posted verse.
I dont think you can understand this at all @Episkopos

Listen, Noah, Abraham, had FAITH, and God "imputed righteousnes" unto them, because of their faith.

Just read this verse...

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD......(see that faith???)....and God counted his FAITH (not his works) as (imputed) righteousness".

And the SINNER can have this same imputed RIGHTOUENESS, if they give God their FAITH..........exaclty as Abraham did it.


Welcome to : Salvation.

Let me show you again... (Paul's theology).
-
NIV
"""""However, to the one who does not work...but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as RIGHTEOUSNESS..""""

New Living Translation
But people are counted as RIGHTEOUS = , not because of their work, but because of their FAITH in God who forgives sinners.

English Standard Version
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Berean Standard Bible
However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Berean Literal Bible
However, to the one not working, but believing on the One justifying the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness,

King James Bible
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

New King James Version
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

New American Standard Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

NASB 1995
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

NASB 1977
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,

Legacy Standard Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes upon Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Amplified Bible
But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).

Christian Standard Bible

 

[Lizbeth]

A lot of people are encouraged in the religious system to read the bible and claim spiritual things for themselves as being "figurative"...since no one has any real experience in spiritual things. It's due to ignorance...but a WILLFUL ignorance.


Paul said...having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. Of such turn away.

I would say of modern religionists ....denying the power of the cross to embrace a spiritualization of the truth in abstraction. Easy to do, if you are dishonest. easy to preach, easy way to fill the pews.

When the old man is crucified there is no more power of sin left over...one can walk in Christ's perfection just as He did. As Paul said "No longer I (ego).


In your own mind. No wonder society today is so make-believe...a woman claiming to be a man or a rabbit, or a man thinking he's a woman or a cat. The very twisting of the bible brings those same deceiving spirits into the world...wiping out God's judgment that could save them.

The foundation is NOT a religious imagination. Beliefs are not faith. The narrow way is NOT being religiously narrow minded. Each of these errors are like layers of an onion you will need to peel away if you are going to experience truth in power. You have to forsake the flesh and human reasoning.

What you are calling religious imagination is heavenly reality. This is the reason why we are to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. But you need ears to hear it. Kind of like, Satan has already been defeated, yet he still goes around trying to steal, kill and destroy.

And we do walk in the power of it.....according to our level of growth and understanding. We are not the same people since coming to faith and receiving Christ....He has changed us, yet we still have more change to undergo and "attain". Do you believe we are new creatures.....that we now have or are a new man?

 

[GracePeace]

More lies and foolishness. If I write a verse where God declares someone righteous...like Abraham, you will say that is only for the Jews in the OT. If I quote the many times the righteous are mentioned you will obfuscate and say that the testimony is from men.

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

I could post a dozen more such verses but the deaf and blind can't perceive.

He has as much interest in evidence as a brick wall does.

 

[Lizbeth]

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

Sure, but they still needed Jesus to descend into hades and preach the gospel to them. I expect they were part of the first resurrection, when the tombs were opened at Jesus' resurrection. "They without us would not be made perfect".

 

[Episkopos]

Sure, but they still needed Jesus to descend into hades and preach the gospel to them. I expect they were part of the first resurrection, when the tombs were opened at Jesus' resurrection. "They without us would not be made perfect".

Or we could speculate whether the actor that played Gollum, Andy Serkis, will be able to pull off directing a new movie?

Non-biblical speculations abound....

 

[Behold]

Non-biblical speculations abound....

Thank you @Episkopos .

Your own post just described both your theology and your ministry.

Non-biblical speculations abound....

Im glad you finally spoke some truth.. about your own ministry and theology.
Took you a while., as you've been here over a decade.

 

[Episkopos]

What you are calling religious imagination is heavenly reality.

For some

This is the reason why we are to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Who is DOING God's will?

But you need ears to hear it. Kind of like, Satan has already been defeated, yet he still goes around trying to steal, kill and destroy.

And we do walk in the power of it.....according to our level of growth and understanding.

One is either holy or not...like being pregnant...no one is partially pregnant based on a incomplete understanding

We are not the same people since coming to faith and receiving Christ....He has changed us, yet we still have more change to undergo and "attain". Do you believe we are new creatures.....that we now have or are a new man?

Not for many here. Look at the antics...the flesh raised up...the "how dare yous" of the carnal man. The self-justification.

You would have to understand the spiritual process which you can't understand even when I break it down very simply...from a sample to a full surrender,

 

[Behold]

Who is DOING God's will?

Who is "doing God's will"?

Its all who "obey the Gospel"

How do you obey it?

A.) You believe it.

One is either holy or not...

No sinner, of themselves, can be holy.

Its Only the born agian Christian has gained God's righteouness, by receiving it from God as a "GIFT"... that esteems them before God as Holy.

You would have to understand the spiritual process

Try explaining what it means to be born again.. ,and why. @Episkopos
All Your videos failed.

And remember.......If you "Google" the definition, or "wikepedia" the definition and paste it, or transliterate it......this will be obvious.

See you there...

 

[GracePeace]

Your false gospel that Paul warns about...your own man-made foolish contraption that justifies sin and falsehood.

Your own post just described both your theology and your ministry.

"Behold" @Behold's level of apologetics :

 

[shepherdsword]

"Behold" @Behold's level of apologetics :
View attachment 70450

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. He seems impervious to any truth outside Calvin's heretical dogma. I

 

[GracePeace]

He seems impervious to any truth

Same is true of all who hold to their view--no interest in putting their eyeballs on "inconvenient" verses. Even if you do force them to "behold" the verses, they do ridiculous mental gymnastics to deny what is obviously being taught and defend their ahistorical gobbledygook.

 

[Lizbeth]

One is either holy or not...like being pregnant...no one is partially pregnant based on a incomplete understanding

No but with pregnancy the baby is in process of being formed.